Looks like Open Carry will finally be passed in TX

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... it just hasn't happened in the other 80+% of the country that allows "permitless" OC. I know Texas is unique but I wouldn't loose any sleep over it.
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Hell, it's already happened in TX with long guns. You must not pay attention to the news... :D

That said, it didn't do as much damage as I initially thought it would. I was pretty sure it was the death-knell for being able to pass any sort of OC legislation. However, I do think we might have had a chance for permitless OC without the shenanigans of a few idiots leading up to this legislative session.
 
To discuss this change with people who are uninformed of the facts it is easy to point out that those states that have handgun or weapon carry systems in place that do not differentiate between open or concealed carry (or even constitutional/permitless carry) and those states with concealed carry systems in place generally see no negatives (there may not be any statistical positives, but there are no negatives either) as a result.
 
I really feel as though, should this bill pass, it will be our duty as Texans to open carry as much as possible. Don't get me wrong. When I first started carrying concealed it made me a little nervous. I felt as though I was doing something I shouldn't (grew up in Massachusetts if that tells you anything). But just like were going to be a little uneasy OCing for the first time. The general public will undoubtedly be uneasy with it as well. This is why we need to carry. To show people that just because there's a gun on someones hip doesn't mean there's going to be a violent altercation. We need to paint the man with the gun as the good guy in the crowd. The guy you can ask for directions. The guy who has already committed to protecting himself and others around him from the evils of the world. If we all stay concealed we wont get anywhere as far as educating the people.
 
^ An excellent post. Very sound reasoning. Unlike Arizona, New Mexico and Montana to name a few, Texas is a state with no open carry tradition for about 150 years.

It will be a transition for a state with over 20 million people. But I believe Texans will get it done quite seamlessly. My brother was a Texan for 25 years and believed Texas was the greatest place in the world. Being born in New Jersey probably helped his perception in this matter. ;)
 
While I support open carry on the basis of not infringing our right, it is probably something I will never do. I just don't think it will ever become commonplace enough that folks won't freak out and call the police about a man with a gun when you're shopping at Walmart with a gun on your hip. It will just create a huge hassle for the guy openly carrying. For that reason, I'll keep carrying concealed.
 
There are 27 million people in Texas and about 800,000 have CHLs. I do not see all 800,000 open carrying or the numbers drastically increasing due to open carry.

The liberals are predicting blood rivers running down the street just as they did in 1995 when we got Concealed Carry. After the new wears off it will be another additional second amendment freedom that IMO/IME very few people will take advantage of.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr
 
Will I open carry? Seriously doubt it. Depends of the time of day or night, where I am and what I am doing. 3PM going to HEB, no. Driving to El Paso and stopping for gas in Ft. Stockton or Van Horn at 3AM, yes.

It all depends but as a general rule? NO.

However, I would have the option. Now? Nope
 
Why fight for the right if we wont use it? It'll just get taken away again.

The only valid argument for concealed carry over OC is the "element of surprise".

Which when you weigh out all the factors isn't much in the grand scheme of things.

1. If your going to say that the criminal will shoot you first you might as well not carry at all for fear of being struck by lighting while having a block of steel on your hip. The odds look similar.

2. Ease of access, no snagging/fumbling, faster draw.

3. You can use any gun you'd like at that point. IE the one your most proficient with. (how many of us can truly say that we are as good with our subcompacts and our mouse guns compared to our full size?)

4. Comfort in general

5. The fact that you openly carry a gun DOES act as a deterrent to those about to commit a crime. Robbers don't want to commit murder, they want to be in and out. I would venture that given the opportunity, this type of reaction would be far more likely then "Oh, Ill just shoot that guy first!"

6. You can wear clothes that fit you and you don't need to keep your jacket on when its hotter than you anticipated. How good is your situation awareness when you're panting like a dog?

7. More mag capacity

8. More room to store mags as you may not have worn a mag on your belt when you CC'd.

9. Just because you wont NEED a retention holster doesn't mean you cant get one if you don't want to.

10. And it gives you a reason to go out and buy a bad-ass leather rig for your beautiful hand guns that you've up until recently been shamed to keep under clothing up until now :)


Or you could sacrifice all of that for the element of suprise... Which wont even come into play if you are the one being attacked. Remember you're attacker is watching you.
 
That said, it didn't do as much damage as I initially thought it would. I was pretty sure it was the death-knell for being able to pass any sort of OC legislation. However, I do think we might have had a chance for permitless OC without the shenanigans of a few idiots leading up to this legislative session.
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May I suggest the aid and comfort given to the gun-grabbers by gun owners who decided carrying long arms openly was Politically Uncorrect had a lot to do with the failure of permitless carry in the current session?
 
Calaverasslim stated: "Will I open carry? Seriously doubt it. Depends of the time of day or night, where I am and what I am doing. 3PM going to HEB, no. Driving to El Paso and stopping for gas in Ft. Stockton or Van Horn at 3AM, yes."

Well put, sir. I feel precisely the same! :D

Corner Pocket
 
xxjumbojimboxx said:
Why fight for the right if we wont use it? It'll just get taken away again.

The only valid argument for concealed carry over OC is the "element of surprise".

Which when you weigh out all the factors isn't much in the grand scheme of things.

1. If your going to say that the criminal will shoot you first you might as well not carry at all for fear of being struck by lighting while having a block of steel on your hip. The odds look similar.

2. Ease of access, no snagging/fumbling, faster draw.

3. You can use any gun you'd like at that point. IE the one your most proficient with. (how many of us can truly say that we are as good with our subcompacts and our mouse guns compared to our full size?)

4. Comfort in general

5. The fact that you openly carry a gun DOES act as a deterrent to those about to commit a crime. Robbers don't want to commit murder, they want to be in and out. I would venture that given the opportunity, this type of reaction would be far more likely then "Oh, Ill just shoot that guy first!"

6. You can wear clothes that fit you and you don't need to keep your jacket on when its hotter than you anticipated. How good is your situation awareness when you're panting like a dog?

7. More mag capacity

8. More room to store mags as you may not have worn a mag on your belt when you CC'd.

9. Just because you wont NEED a retention holster doesn't mean you cant get one if you don't want to.

10. And it gives you a reason to go out and buy a bad-ass leather rig for your beautiful hand guns that you've up until recently been shamed to keep under clothing up until now :)


Or you could sacrifice all of that for the element of suprise... Which wont even come into play if you are the one being attacked. Remember you're attacker is watching you.
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Yes.

I've never understood how an offensive tactic used for attack is applicable to carrying for defensive purposes.

The only party employing the element of surprise is the perp who surprises you when he sticks you up.

I'd much rather be passed by for an alternative mark.
 
Corner Pocket said:
Calaverasslim stated: "Will I open carry? Seriously doubt it. Depends of the time of day or night, where I am and what I am doing. 3PM going to HEB, no. Driving to El Paso and stopping for gas in Ft. Stockton or Van Horn at 3AM, yes."

Well put, sir. I feel precisely the same! :D

Corner Pocket
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So, Ive been to Fort Stockton on my way out to my land outside of Sierra Blanca.. That place is a ghost town during the day, never mind 3am. Have I told you I HATE fort stockton? Well I do... Anyhow, what you've just said is you'll OC when you're all alone, in some ghost town. But not in a place like Dallas where you're more likely to encounter some sort of trouble? What kind of sense does that make?
 
10. And it gives you a reason to go out and buy a bad-ass leather rig for your beautiful hand guns that you've up until recently been shamed to keep under clothing up until now
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Amen, finally a reason for me to buy a Holster made of Stingray.
 
Why fight for the right if we wont use it? It'll just get taken away again.
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It wasn't taken away for lack of being used. It really wasn't meant to be taken away at all--the fairly obvious intent when the law was passed right after the Civil War was to make it possible to prosecute freedmen who were bold enough to carry pistols.

Then when selective enforcement became impossible the law gradually came to be applied to everyone.

What's happening is that the TX handgun laws are slowly being reworked to undo the damage done over 100 years ago by racially motivated legislators.
Or you could sacrifice all of that for the element of suprise... Which wont even come into play if you are the one being attacked. Remember you're attacker is watching you.
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The element of surprise isn't the only benefit, but it certainly is one benefit regardless of how much some people try to discount it.

If you poke around you'll find it's not difficult to find instances of people who were placed in really bad situations by felons but who were able to save their lives, and the lives of others by being armed in such a manner that the attacker didn't realize they were armed until too late. In specific, situations where a concealed gun was able to be accessed at a very opportune time of the defender's choosing whereas an openly carried gun would have resulted in the defender either being disarmed or killed during the opening stages of the crime.

In fact, you don't even have to leave the site to find an example.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=60164&page=2

Scroll down to the post by Quarterboregunner (post #38 on the thread) recounting his experience as a gun store employee when Richard Gable Stevens came in and did a takeover robbery.

It's doubly applicable in that the felon clearly wasn't deterred by the possibility of armed resistance since he committed his crime at a gun store/gun range.

The point of this law is that expands the gun rights of TX citizens and provides a steppingstone for further advancements in future legislative sessions. Whether it is a commonly exercised right or not is moot.

After all, it's not even that common for people to exercise their right to carry concealed if you look at the stats. Only about 1% or 2% of the population of TX have their CHL and, in my experience, only a small fraction of those who have a CHL carry on a regular basis. In spite of that, there's been no push to take away the right to get a CHL because so few persons, relatively speaking, have CHLs and actually use them to carry guns.

I see no reason to be concerned about the right to open carry being taken away because only a few people choose to exercise it. In fact, when I look around for examples of open carry being rescinded, I can find none where it happened because too few were open carrying. The only examples I can find where open carry has been restricted in recent times have been the result of people open carrying in circumstances where it was ill-advised to do so. The key appears to be not how many (or how few) people exercise their right, but whether or not they exercise their right in a prudent manner.
 
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I've accidentally open carried, making it legal would sure help in a situation like that.

And I really don't think anybody looked twice at me.
 
It wasn't taken away for lack of being used. It really wasn't meant to be taken away at all--the fairly obvious intent when the law was passed right after the Civil War was to make it possible to prosecute freedmen who were bold enough to carry pistols.
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The point of this law is that expands the gun rights of TX citizens and provides a steppingstone for further advancements in future legislative sessions. Whether it is a commonly exercised right or not is moot.
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I don't care why it was originally stripped. That has NOTHING to do with the politics at hand today. If you don't use your rights, you lose your rights. Ever heard the saying that they're like muscles? In today's political climate, if we do not take the necessary steps to de-villanize the open carrying of handguns we will always have to fight for it. People need to know its okay. They need to see Ned Flanders with his gun and know that Ned isn't out to get them. Only then will we have a society that doesn't attack the ownership and usage of firearms. Because they are educated. I would venture that so much of the fear of guns is harbored by the sheer fact that its illegal to go walk outside with one.



The element of surprise isn't the only benefit, but it certainly is one benefit regardless of how much some people try to discount it.
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What you are talking about here is a valid point only when you are a bystander. Not when you are the one being attacked. let us not discount the fact that during a robbery, as a bystander, Mr. robber may not even see your open carried weapon. Either way, We all know that if someone has a gun pointed at YOUR face, you will not have time to draw from concealment and be effective. The same likely goes of OC as well.. unless you're a badass. But there's no level of badassery that will help you when drawing from concealed.

Also, I honestly cannot think of any other benefit of CC over OC, you didn't list one... Can you think of any?
 
Also, I honestly cannot think of any other benefit of CC over OC, you didn't list one... Can you think of any?
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Nope, and cops and security guards and FBI and Federal Marshall's can't either. They are mostly all open. Neither, the untold numbers in dozens of states that OC every day, without incident.

But, we've been down this long,lonely path before! Amen! :D
 
Hey folks, this isn't over yet and there is still work to do. During the third reading, a joint amendment was proposed by Rep. Harold Dutton (D-Houston) and Rep. Mark Rinaldi (R-?). This amendment provides that carrying a handgun openly cannot be the SOLE reason for an investigatory stop by police (see thread in Legal for more details).

Several news reports/editorials have since mischaracterized this amendment as preventing police from asking anyone with an openly carried handgun if they have a license under any circumstances, which is not the case.

My take is that they are trying to rile up opposition to the amendment in the Senate in hopes of stalling the bill in a conference committee. I encourage you to contact your Senator and let them know you support the amendments to HB910 and that the Dutton-Rinaldi amendment is not the apocalyptic mess it is being portrayed as in the press.
 
Bartholomew Roberts said:
Hey folks, this isn't over yet and there is still work to do. During the third reading, a joint amendment was proposed by Rep. Harold Dutton (D-Houston) and Rep. Mark Rinaldi (R-?). This amendment provides that carrying a handgun openly cannot be the SOLE reason for an investigatory stop by police (see thread in Legal for more details).

Several news reports/editorials have since mischaracterized this amendment as preventing police from asking anyone with an openly carried handgun if they have a license under any circumstances, which is not the case.

My take is that they are trying to rile up opposition to the amendment in the Senate in hopes of stalling the bill in a conference committee. I encourage you to contact your Senator and let them know you support the amendments to HB910 and that the Dutton-Rinaldi amendment is not the apocalyptic mess it is being portrayed as in the press.
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Just called, got a receptionist (thought i was going to get a recording) told him to pass along my support of all three amendments to HB910. I had to clarify that it was the open carry bill.
 
Not sure yet. You can sign up for email updates at the Texas Legislative website and they will email you whenever a new action is taken on a bill you've subscribed.

Right now, the Senate has received HB910; but no action has been scheduled on it.
 
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