Texas Senate approves open carry of handguns

[Double Naught Spy]

The radical left winger militant antis use the exact same arguments. You really think we should be using the same tactics?

What tactics? When you have high profile individuals promoting a given cause and they behave like idiots, that behavior reflects back on the cause that they support. There are no tactics involves here, just public perceptions.

It may be a "silly" perspective as you note, but then again, nobody ever said that public perception was based on well researched and comprehended facts and logic. To the contrary, public perception is largely emotional. People get elected because of how handsome they are or how well they dress. Some people get elected simply because they are from a given party, not because the people voted for them considered all the political considerations when casting a vote.

It really doesn't matter if that person is representational of the population or not. It gives the cause a bad association in the public eye that can hinder the efforts of the cause.

The bottom line is that when you are promoting a given cause or candidate, you don't want individuals that are idiots and nutcases out front to promote your cause.

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

Anti OC: "Well, except for the one arrested for murdering her husband." Yeah, those OC folks. Gotta watch them.

I think you are reading a bit much into my comment. Someone stated they weren't aware of OCTC getting into any trouble, and one of the OCTC members was recently arrested for murder. The public face of OCTC can't carry under license due to a Class A or B misdemeanor conviction - which is why he open carries a rifle.

And I'm not sure that OCTC not being prosecuted for making blatant (if hopefully hyperbolic) threats to lawmakers on video is anything that recommends the organization.

As you noted in a backwards, confused manner, whether OCTC is an effective advocate for the Second Amendment is not really the same issue as whether the cause they advocate poorly for is a good idea.

 

[DNS]

Its my understanding that the retention holster amendment the dems pushed for fell through.

So now 3% of us Texans can coordinate our boots hats and gun belts.

 

[Chocolate Bayou]

Open Carry

The Texas House committee has passed and will come up for debate in the open house, where there is @95% of passage. Governor has already announced he will sign when it reaches his desk. It will be so nice to be able to stop using the mostly uncomfortable IWB (to me the most rewarding aspect) and wear belt holsters and not have to carry single stack 9mm and carry anything you want whether your shirt covers all of it or you just choose to tuck your shirt in and wear it openly. I can tell you that if I walked in a McDonalds and I didn't have a handgun but saw someone else that did, I'm going to sit at the closest table to him.

JMO

 

[X-Rap]

The thing about having OC on the books is you don't have to worry about being shook down, fined, or even loosing your RTC just because some cop or concerned citizen saw your gun.
A very small percentage OC all the time.
Myself, I do it while doing outdoor activities but it's nice to not have to de-gun at the gas stop or while getting lunch, bait or whatever.

 

[Frank Ettin]

The thread was starting to drift into CC vs. OC territorym and some post have disappeared. Let's stay on topic. See post 23.

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

The Texas House committee has passed and will come up for debate in the open house, where there is @95% of passage.

Currently, HB910 (the House companion bill to the Senate allowing open carry for those who hold a CHL) has not left the Texas Public Safety Committee. This is not unusual as bills will sometimes sit a week or so in committee before being sent forward; but we should definitely be asking why this hasn't moved forward if we aren't seeing action by the end of this week.

The Texas legislative session is very short. We can't afford to burn much time on this. Luckily, so far, Second Amendment issues seem to be getting high priority and are being addressed quickly.

 

[58limited]

I just looked up the bills before the Homeland Security & Public Safety Committee and there are several whose titles are very similar. I do not have the time to read them right now but here is a link for those interested:

http://www.legis.state.tx.us/Reports/Report.aspx?ID=committee&LegSess=84R&Code=C420

The bills are HB106, HB164, HB195, HB291, HB415, HB910, HB922, HB944. I don't know the particulars of each one.

 

[Col. Jankoski]

I live in Kentucky, we have open and concealed carry or the either one law. Recently mad mothers against everything tried to get Kroger supermarkets to ban all open carry and long gun carry in their stores. They came back ( Krogers) by saying that the family that started Krogers and owns a majority in the company are God Fearing constitutional loving people, that would never stop the rights of legal gun owners to carry in their stores. However they pointed out mad mothers against everything ( I honestly can not remember the name of the left wingers group as the are so many) are free to shop elsewhere! Texas needs to stay tough and take back Texas, ya'll let a bunch of liberal lesbians take over when Ann Richards ran everything and now texans need to step up and throw the posers out! Long live Texas

 

[Peter M. Eick]

I am for it passing. I just see the simple upside of open carry in general. There are times when an open holster is more convenient than CHL style. For example working on my property in the summer.

Yes I know it is legal to carry on my property, but step one foot off without open carry and you could be in trouble. Simply forgetting you have your gun on (for snakes or other bandits) and walk down to the mailbox could cause you grief.

 

[barnbwt]

"Its my understanding that the retention holster amendment the dems pushed for fell through."
So it was stripped out by the House committee, I guess? "Pushed through" is a bit strong a description, seeing as they aren't in a position to push much of anything. I do believe it was more a good-faith measure than anything (it was the most legitimately-supportable of the various amendments offered that I cared to read through). I still think it'd be nice if they'd have us learn about holsters/retention --both crucial elements to safe carry that are easily taught-- in place of the pseudo-scientific psychology/conflict resolution portions of the class. It's not like a boring fifteen minute seminar is gonna make a grown man stop acting the fool, or become a nuanced diplomat. Holsters are at least simple enough that important and useful information could be imparted, as opposed to the current situation where they are barely even referenced (my instructor basically just said "use a holster, please" and that was the end of it). So long as the class is mandatory, we might as well make it as useful as possible.

In fairness to the anti-gunners' desire to have "input" on the OC changes, we did hold the campus carry hearings out in El Paso, so it's not like we're above shenanigans on our side . I actually thought it was quite sporting that the one honestly written amendment was given more than a fair shake; makes it much harder for them to argue we're ramming this through without any consideration for the opposition (esp. since doing exactly that is so easy in Texas)

TCB

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

Just to update, a substituted version of HB910 (to match SB17) (Licensed open carry) was reported favorably out of the Public Safety to the Calendars Committee where hopefully it will be scheduled for a floor vote.

However, Campus Carry (HB937 and SB11) have still not been reported out of the Public Safety Committee despite having been sent over from the Senate on March 20th. I encourage you to contact your Reps and ask what is going on, we are already past the halfway point of the legislative session and these bills still need to clear Calendars to get a vote.

 

[CapnMac]

Ok, followed the link and read HB 910 (all 36 pdf pages of it).

Basically, the bill strikes the word concealed from every reference to "concealed handgun" in the Alcoholic Beverage, Education, Transportation, and Penal Codes.

So, to open carry, you apply for a CHL. (So, my moral arguments about registering owners instead of their arms still applies, but, that's a different topic.)

Looks like CHL my automatically 'get' OC as well.

Also, the hard fought business about carrying in cars remains, with a 'bonus' of sorts. We had a bitter and drawn out legislative business over CHL having to declare concealed weapons on traffic stops, and non-CHLs not having to do so. Looks like we keep the right to not declare if hidden from view. And, CHL need not conceal as long as the weapon is in a "belt or shoulder holster."

All the "30.06" signage rules apply, only with "concealed" removed from the verbiage.

So, that's good.

What troubles me, though are what is not included.

Say I'm off bank fishing in a place where that is legal, I cannot tell if I need a permit to carry a K-22 on my hip. Or if I'm simply hiking public land and come across a herd of javelina. Both of those OC situations appear to be verboten right now, you need to CC with your CHL to do either--as I read the law as written.

 

[Bexar]

I live in Kentucky, we have open and concealed carry or the either one law. Recently mad mothers against everything tried to get Kroger supermarkets to ban all open carry and long gun carry in their stores. They came back ( Krogers) by saying that the family that started Krogers and owns a majority in the company are God Fearing constitutional loving people, that would never stop the rights of legal gun owners to carry in their stores. However they pointed out mad mothers against everything ( I honestly can not remember the name of the left wingers group as the are so many) are free to shop elsewhere! Texas needs to stay tough and take back Texas, ya'll let a bunch of liberal lesbians take over when Ann Richards ran everything and now texans need to step up and throw the posers out! Long live Texas

I'm an arch-conservative and don't think anyone of our extended family on either side even owns a blue suit or dress but Gov. Ann Richards (RIP) went after Texas corrupt government with the fervor of a mother bobcat protecting her young. Her son was set upon by the corrupt officials to get at her because she could call in resources to defend her position. I worked several years after she passed away for one of those agencies she cleaned house on and she was still highly regarded by everyone there.

She did block the CHL carry which helped to cost her the governor position but she was a noble and honest woman.

I also think firearms instruction, including live fire, should be a mandatory part of the curriculum at all Texas High schools.

 

[Bexar]

Ok, followed the link and read HB 910 (all 36 pdf pages of it).

Basically, the bill strikes the word concealed from every reference to "concealed handgun" in the Alcoholic Beverage, Education, Transportation, and Penal Codes.

So, to open carry, you apply for a CHL. (So, my moral arguments about registering owners instead of their arms still applies, but, that's a different topic.)

Looks like CHL my automatically 'get' OC as well.

Also, the hard fought business about carrying in cars remains, with a 'bonus' of sorts. We had a bitter and drawn out legislative business over CHL having to declare concealed weapons on traffic stops, and non-CHLs not having to do so. Looks like we keep the right to not declare if hidden from view. And, CHL need not conceal as long as the weapon is in a "belt or shoulder holster."

All the "30.06" signage rules apply, only with "concealed" removed from the verbiage.

So, that's good.

What troubles me, though are what is not included.

Say I'm off bank fishing in a place where that is legal, I cannot tell if I need a permit to carry a K-22 on my hip. Or if I'm simply hiking public land and come across a herd of javelina. Both of those OC situations appear to be verboten right now, you need to CC with your CHL to do either--as I read the law as written.

I believe you still have a right in Texas to carry a firearm in any location you legally could before. A business owner/manager does not need any license to carry a handgun concealed or unconcealed...even a liquor store owner.

But...as you mentioned and it is a very valid point, laws can backfire with un-intended consequences.

Texas still has an individual LEO discretion attitude so a person might beat the rap but not the ride. Our Daughter, a CHL holder was pulled over in a small town speed trap just southeast of y'all and the officer gave her an extended third degree about her CHL. We have always taught our Daughter to show LEOs the ultimate respect. This guy was hammering her with questions looking to trap her. She feels the only reason he didn't take her in was because of the two pre-elementary cousins in their carseats in the backseat.

Anyway...you do raise a potential "oops" to the law valid point.

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

What troubles me, though are what is not included.

Say I'm off bank fishing in a place where that is legal, I cannot tell if I need a permit to carry a K-22 on my hip. Or if I'm simply hiking public land and come across a herd of javelina. Both of those OC situations appear to be verboten right now, you need to CC with your CHL to do either--as I read the law as written.

You should take a look at Section 46.15 of the Texas Penal Code (Nonapplicability). Every Texas gun owner should familiarize themselves with this part as it provides numerous exceptions to 46.02 (Unlawful Carry of a Weapon) and 46.03 (Places Weapons Prohibited).

For example, Sec. 46.15 (b)(3) says Section 46.02 (Unlawful Carry of a Weapon) does not apply to a person who... "(3) is engaging in lawful hunting, fishing, or other sporting activity on the immediate premises where the activity is conducted, or is en route between the premises and the actor's residence, motor vehicle, or watercraft, if the weapon is a type commonly used in the activity;"

 

[Bexar]

You should take a look at Section 46.15 of the Texas Penal Code (Nonapplicability). Every Texas gun owner should familiarize themselves with this part as it provides numerous exceptions to 46.02 (Unlawful Carry of a Weapon) and 46.03 (Places Weapons Prohibited).

For example, Sec. 46.15 (b)(3) says Section 46.02 (Unlawful Carry of a Weapon) does not apply to a person who... "(3) is engaging in lawful hunting, fishing, or other sporting activity on the immediate premises where the activity is conducted, or is en route between the premises and the actor's residence, motor vehicle, or watercraft, if the weapon is a type commonly used in the activity;"

Good comment Bartholomew...Here is a website that answers some questions and lists the exact laws etc.

http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/texas.pdf

I happened to look at the CHL law fees while in the site and I qualify for half-price now....Yipee...yay.

 

[Peter M. Eick]

Thank you both (above) for the links. I did go back and re-read them again. I guess I should review those more often and keep up on the changes.

 

[Bexar]

I am for it passing. I just see the simple upside of open carry in general. There are times when an open holster is more convenient than CHL style. For example working on my property in the summer.

Yes I know it is legal to carry on my property, but step one foot off without open carry and you could be in trouble. Simply forgetting you have your gun on (for snakes or other bandits) and walk down to the mailbox could cause you grief.

This happened to a friend of mine that owned a retail business. There had been some jewelry store robberies in the area recently and he started wearing a pistol on a holster on his hip. The robbers were rather violent and it was the holiday season. I happened to be visiting him and when I arrived at the store one his employees said he'd be right back he had walked down to the liquor store for a coke.

Suddenly one of his employees let out a startled yelp and asked out loud if the owner still had his pistol on him. About that time my friend walked in and sure enough...still hanging on his hip.

The "Oh snaps" were vocalized then we laughed and I asked him if he'd go get me a coke.

Carrying a pistol into a liquor store was a big time felony.

Fast forward 20 years and our Daughter (A CHL holder) and I were riding out to our favorite country BBQ place. She handed me her 38 special to adjust for the seat belt that had worn thin her patience. Anyway...I slipped it into my shirt pocket and it fit perfectly. We go inside and are eating and I instinctively face the door. Several Sheriff deputies come sit down at the table across from us. I suddenly realize I have the pistol still in my shirt pocket (I'm not a CHL) and it's a felony to have it in an establishment that serves beer for a non-CHL. I got up and had to walk by the deputies while best holding my arm over my pocket. Made it back to the truck and after giving birth to a litter of kittens I slipped it into the glove compartment and went back inside. I'm glad the BBQ was so good because the deputies never looked up as I walked by. Woof!!!

I failed to mention...I use crutches to walk and I must have looked pretty suspicious trying to cover my pocket while walking outside on the crutches. Woof again.

 

[Red Wind]

A great story! Thank you, Bexar.

 

[Bexar]

A great story! Thank you, Bexar.

They are just that...made up-stories. I do that on occasion to add to the discussion...this time I forgot to mention the disclaimer of they being "war stories".

I'm working with several published authors and an MIT professor on publishing some of my short stories as they are able to help. Maybe someday but not today. On another forum I used to start open ended stories that the next respondent continued the story. It was usually a great adventure and the stories became very interesting as others added to the stories with their perspective. I simply forgot to mention they were short stories...sorry. I'll try to remember next time.

Thanks for your appreciation.

 

[Red Wind]

Well, made up or not, they are extremely entertaining! And I know that you are a brave Texas gentleman.

I'd want you with me in my foxhole any day. Don't mess with Texas!

 

[Bexar]

Well, made up or not, they are extremely entertaining! And I know that you are a brave Texas gentleman.

I'd want you with me in my foxhole any day. Don't mess with Texas!

Thanks...Florida is our vacation home for it's beauty and seashores. We used to go twice a year just to vacation.
Good people Floridians.

Yep...you wouldn't be able to believe the true stories of my life. I don't even believe half of them. That's one of the reasons despite completing the course twice, I never finished getting my CHL. I'd be the guy that his pistol fell out of his triple secured pocket sewn shut and land in front of a bunch of Mothers Demand Action zealots getting snacks for an anti-gun rally. They'd scream murder and I'd become a test case for domestic terrorism charges. (insert forehead in palms icon here)

I'm glad you enjoyed the story. if I could figure out how on this forum I'd start one of the open-ended stories and let others add a couple of paragraphs to continue it. However, this is more a technical forum so it may die quickly.

Thanks again...Bexar

 

[Red Wind]

Thanks again...Bexar

You are more than welcome.

And if you come to the Florida Keys again, I'd be more than happy to put you up, talk guns and discuss all the great old times with you, compadre.

 

[Bexar]

Will do.