Really Dumb question about NFA and barrel length

Have a tape measure? Just having the barrel even if it turns out to be 12" won't get you in trouble, unless you mount it to an upper and then put it on a rifle lower, that's not registered as an SBR or machinegun.

I work with a retired gun smith, and I told him I was cutting down the barrels on a side by side shotgun. He said the shortest he would trim barrels down was 18.25 inches. Its not what length you get when you measure it, its what length the ATF gets when they measure it; so he would leave some wiggle room.

I believe that the ATF measure for barrel length is to fully close and lock the bolt, insert a dowel, mark the dowel at the muzzle, remove the dowel and measure using a tape. The distance from the closed bolt to the end of the muzzle is the official barrel length regardless of what is stamped on it. If I recall correctly, most 16 inch barrels are actually 16.1 or more precisely to avoid ATF problems. Flash hiders, muzzle breaks, etc. do not count for muzzle length unless "permanently" attached according to ATF specs. Measuring their length accurately often requires removal of these barrel attachments.

Of course, make sure that the firearm is unloaded before doing this.

DownintheDark,
I believe that the ATF NFA standard is 18 inches for shotguns and 16 for rifles.

And here are the standards from the horse's mouth--https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/atf-national-firearms-act-handbook-chapter-2/download

I have always just trusted manufacturers. I could be wrong, but I have always assumed that they would be in a ton of crap if they sold NFA length barrels as non-NFA.

BearBrimstone said:

I have always just trusted manufacturers. I could be wrong, but I have always assumed that they would be in a ton of crap if they sold NFA length barrels as non-NFA.

Click to expand...

Nope, a barrel by itself is just a metal tube. It isn't an NFA issue until it's attached to a rifle receiver. Especially now, a barrel could be for an AR pistol so you'll see plenty of <16" barrels for sale, even as short as a few inches for a 9mm AR.

But, usually a barrel marked as 16" is going to be a non-NFA item. Not many people are going to SBR something for 0.1". Still can't hurt to ask.

I've never heard of a barrel seller selling a barrel <16" an calling it 16".

Mike

Amazing how dangerous a 15.999 inch rifle barrel is. You'd have to keep it above 120°F to be legal. Buuuut, 16" seemed "reasonable" to the folks who made the rule, I guess.

Personally I think 14.875" is reasonable.



Terry, 230RN

Manufacturers aren't going to sell <16" barrels as legal title I 16" tubes. That would open them up to civil liability for your legal defense costs and other damages due to an unregistered SBR charge.

Having said that, knowingly/willingly violating a law is a major component in indictment and conviction; if you buy a production barrel billed as 16" and the ATF ruler says it's 15.95", you made the effort to be compliant with the law. Doesn't mean you can't be charged, but intent matters in court. Frank or one of our other resident attorneys can expand on this facet.

Now, if you are going to hack your own barrels, I would strongly recommend leaving at least an extra .2" so there is no doubt.

BobTheTomato said:

Well I went ahead and ordered it. I will measure when I get it and see how long a 16" barrel really is. I am hoping it is roughly 16.1"

Click to expand...

Measure it with a bolt cammed into it using something in the barrel like a cleaning rod.

Again I have never ever heard of someone selling a barrel labled or called 16" that was pistol/NFA length.

Mike

The dumb question is the unasked one.

ATF measure of legal barrel length is muzzle (or permanently attached muzzle device) to breechface. Take a solid rod with the bolt closed (breech closed on a hinge frame like a shotgun or TC rifle), insert it til it stops, tape at the muzzle, remove the rod and measure the rod to the tape.

I have seen an AR-7 barrel that off the gun measured 16 inches minus the thickness of a .22LR rim, but measured 16 inches using the ATF approved method of measuring. I suspect that if ATF has approved a factory barrel as nominally 16 inches, then legally it's a 16 inch barrel unless altered from factory configuration.

Even if a barrel has been cut after it left the factory, your only fear should be being caught with it by an ATF enforcement agent. A local guy bought a Model 12 shotgun at a prison surplus auction. When he got it home, he measured the barrel and it was less than 18 inches. He contacted the local office of ATF, who told him to remove the barrel, take it to a gunsmith and have a muzzle device permanently attached (anyway a Cutts Compensator on a Model 12 looks classic). He expected he'd have to surrender the gun. No, ATF wanted him to make it legal. No club fed. The big diff I guess is that he contacted them with a question and not that they caught him with an unregistered SBS.

You're not going to have an issue with a factory made barrel, its when you cut your own that its good to leave a hair extra to be on the safe side.

If you get charges filed against you for having a 15.999 inch barrel, that will be the least of your concerns. They will be piling charges on top of a bunch of other stuff that they think you did. I have never seen a BATFE checkpoint at a gun show or range where everyone has their papers checked and every aspect of their weapons inspected prior to letting you pass...................


.

I have never heard of a court case coming up where a purchased barrel was deemed NFA because it measured .001" shorter than the ATF allowed.

As said the ATF doesn't set up checkpoints at gun shows. What they do is set up appointments at manufacturers who are assembling firearms to inspect conformity with regulations. A barrel maker? I'm not sure he even merits an appointment. It's just a part - and they make 10.5" barrels on the same equipment. At the point of manufacture there is no "illegal" length. It's when it's assembled that we as builders need to be aware of what we are doing.

Making a barrel that is advertised to be a certain length and is found shorter by a fraction of an inch undiscernable to the naked eye? There have been barrel vendors go out of business with that tiny fraction of an inch was a restriction in the bore due to less than reputable chrome lining which causes pressures to spike dangerously. That is far more important.

The last guy to measure most barrels is the barrel lathe operator using his precision equipment and who wants to keep his job. He's a machinist - not some yahoo off the street - I trust him more than the ATF sight unseen.

Where people can get into trouble is because you can buy just a 14.5 inch AR barrel or less with no paperwork. If you build it into an upper, regardless of the intent without permanent attaching (using ATF approved methods only) something to make it longer than 16 inches, you have made an NFA item illegally. Similar issues attend building AR-pistols. And usually the way people get in trouble with this stuff is social media postings bragging about it, they made an enemy somewhere that reports them, your gunsmith might, or a police officer notices it at the range and reports you (which is what happened to that Army NG sgt that owned a malfunctioning Olympia AR and got charged and convicted with having an unlicensed machine gun).

Justice Holmes once said, "Men must turn square corners when they deal with the government. "

If a manufacturer sold a shorter than 16" barrel, labeled as 16", they would open themselves up to get sued hard.

BobTheTomato said:

I am looking at an AR stoner barrel in 50 bewolf that says it is 16 inches. Has anyone measured these? I assume it is non NFA since it says 16" but have reservations about going to club fed.

Click to expand...

Do you have a reason to suspect that it isn't 16 inches? If you buy a barrel from a known manufacturer who advertises it as a 16 inch barrel, and it somehow turns out to be otherwise, I think you'd have a really strong case for yourself. I've yet to run across a 16" barrel that wasn't 16", but I certainly can't guarantee that this is true across the board (though I suspect you won't find any SBR 16" barrels floating around).

BobTheTomato said:

I am looking at an AR stoner barrel in 50 bewolf that says it is 16 inches. Has anyone measured these? I assume it is non NFA since it says 16" but have reservations about going to club fed.

Click to expand...

I have never once heard of any company selling a 16" barrel that was actually less than 16". Don't worry about it. I'd be willing to bet any amount of money that the barrel is over 16".

I have a 50, Beowulf and The barrel came at 6.25 plus the muzzle break I mounted on it. The truth is you will want a muzzle break on a 50 Beowulf so if you are truly concerned about it being slightly under 16 inches have your local gun smith pin the muzzle break onto the gun. Your shoulder will thank you, and you will sleep better.

Considering the obvious legal and cost implications (not only to the user; the maker could be sued or their reputation damaged if an ostensibly compliant product lands a customer in jail), no barrel maker treads very close to the 16" mark. Barrels tend to be well over, or far under that threshold so there is no confusion. An eighth of an inch is a huge figure for a CNC barrel lathe, but they leave it on so it can be re-crowned if needed, and so there is no question when the field agent drops the measuring rod down the bore...

...unless the rod is calibrated in "ATF inches"

TCB