Unissued/Unfired 1903A3 guesstimate value?

BigBore44 · May 24, 2017

Found an unissued and unfired Remington 1903A3 still in original crate from Remington to the Army and in cosmoline. No proof marks other than original Remington. Serial number 415xxx. Assuming everything I just stated is correct and factual, and the wood is in great shape, what would be a good guess as to the value?

My father found this gun and asked me. I have no clue about military firearms value. So much of it depends on so many things, and then finding the right person, at the right time, who wants it.

Thanks in advance guys and gals...
BigBore44

Acera · May 24, 2017

I would go ask the guys over at the CMP forums. A lot of those guys are experts in that rifle. Plus many have experience in dealing with NIB rifles like that.

.

BigBore44 · May 24, 2017

Acera said:
I would go ask the guys over at the CMP forums. A lot of those guys are experts in that rifle. Plus many have experience in dealing with NIB rifles like that.

.

This is the only forum I'm a member of. And I hate joining just to ask a question about the value of a gun. But if no one can give me a guesstimate in a few days or so, I may just have to do that. Just seems like I'm only joining to ask that. Not to actually be a member and participate. It bothers me when people do that.

CapnMac · May 24, 2017

Somewhere between $15 and $2000.

First off, it's too good to be true.
IIRC, Remington shipped in crates of 10.
Second, Remington s/n are all 7 digit, starting with 3,000,009 in October 1941 ending 4,998,558 in June 1944.
Followed by the fact I can find decent Remington 1903A3 for right about a grand on Gunbroker.

Would need to know a bunch more, like date on the barrel, Number of groves in the barrel. Whether the bands & trigger guard are stamped or milled. Whether all the parts bear an "R" to match the receiver.

Ok, let's say it's legit.
It's still not that collectable. Really, it only holds value covered in cosmoline and in it's ratty 70+ year old box. It might pull in a couple grand, off to a high-end auction house like James Julia or the like. But, it might not.

That's my 2¢; I suspect Bruce Canfield's might be harsher.

BigBore44 · May 25, 2017

CapnMac said:
Somewhere between $15 and $2000.

First off, it's too good to be true.
IIRC, Remington shipped in crates of 10.
Second, Remington s/n are all 7 digit, starting with 3,000,009 in October 1941 ending 4,998,558 in June 1944.
Followed by the fact I can find decent Remington 1903A3 for right about a grand on Gunbroker.

Would need to know a bunch more, like date on the barrel, Number of groves in the barrel. Whether the bands & trigger guard are stamped or milled. Whether all the parts bear an "R" to match the receiver.

Ok, let's say it's legit.
It's still not that collectable. Really, it only holds value covered in cosmoline and in it's ratty 70+ year old box. It might pull in a couple grand, off to a high-end auction house like James Julia or the like. But, it might not.

That's my 2¢; I suspect Bruce Canfield's might be harsher.

Thanks Captn. I'll see if I can get further info. I told him the same thing about the value. It only holds it covered in Cosmoline.

Jim Watson · May 25, 2017

A single A3 NIB might be a DCM gun.
Long ago I had a coworker who ordered a .30-06 from DCM/NRA. Stocks were getting low even then, they had quit sorting by make, model, and grade. Luck of the draw, $10. He got a NIB Remington A3.

BigBore44 · May 25, 2017

CapnMac said:
Somewhere between $15 and $2000.

First off, it's too good to be true.
IIRC, Remington shipped in crates of 10.
Second, Remington s/n are all 7 digit, starting with 3,000,009 in October 1941 ending 4,998,558 in June 1944.
Followed by the fact I can find decent Remington 1903A3 for right about a grand on Gunbroker.

Would need to know a bunch more, like date on the barrel, Number of groves in the barrel. Whether the bands & trigger guard are stamped or milled. Whether all the parts bear an "R" to match the receiver.

Ok, let's say it's legit.
It's still not that collectable. Really, it only holds value covered in cosmoline and in it's ratty 70+ year old box. It might pull in a couple grand, off to a high-end auction house like James Julia or the like. But, it might not.

That's my 2¢; I suspect Bruce Canfield's might be harsher.

One problem about the info you want. The gun is still in the box, wrapped and in cosmoline. And it's not in our possession. But the gun does in fact have a 7 digit serial number 41555xx. That was my fault.

Laphroaig · May 25, 2017

A couple other places that might help out, in addition to the CMP forum:

There is a 1903 dedicated site/forum:

http://www.m1903.com/qna_m1903/qna.php

There is an individual in these parts, Scott Duff, who makes a living dealing in collectible US Milsurp rifles. His forte is the Garand, but I know he also works with 1903's. You could probably give him a call and see what he says:

http://www.scott-duff.com/M1903.htm

CapnMac · May 26, 2017

BigBore44 said:
a 7 digit serial number 41555xx.

Ok, that's a legit number, built somewhere between December and end of January '44
http://www.vishooter.net/ra_serialization.txt

The single box is still an issue. Everything I've found says 1903A3 were crated ten at a time, 5 butts to the left, 5 to the right. So, a true original crate would be a large thing, with 9 empty spaces.

DCM is possible, I do not know how those were shipped. The successor to DCM, CMP buts rifles in a hard-side case which goes in a very plain cardboard box.

I suppose we cannot discount that someone inside the Remington plant might have sticky-fingered an A3 into a plain "company" box. But how that was not caught in the serial number audits by BuOrd or Ordinance Corps.

Almost too many questions.

Now, were this without the box and its questions, cleaned of cosmoline, it's worth about $1200. Since it should be a '44 build, it should have all stamped fittings--trigger guard, barrel bands, etc. If it has milled parts aboard, then this was rebuilt by major unit armorers, or it was rebuilt in 1950 for Korea, and then cosomlined. In which case, the value takes a hit, down to about $800, assuming all the cosmoline is cleaned up and the stock is pretty. Now, if the barrel date is not 1944, or some of the parts are not stamped "R" the value will tumble a bit more, call it $700.

If we can solve the riddle, we'd be closer to what the antique museum people refer to as "provenance." That's because a good story adds value to things. See, if some remf from Mark Clark's G-3 shop sticky-fingered this thing and got it rotated back to conus and it's been in an attic since 1953, that would be a provenance, and be worth a dime or two (about 5000 dimes or more)

BigBore44 · May 26, 2017

CapnMac said:
Ok, that's a legit number, built somewhere between December and end of January '44
http://www.vishooter.net/ra_serialization.txt

The single box is still an issue. Everything I've found says 1903A3 were crated ten at a time, 5 butts to the left, 5 to the right. So, a true original crate would be a large thing, with 9 empty spaces.

DCM is possible, I do not know how those were shipped. The successor to DCM, CMP buts rifles in a hard-side case which goes in a very plain cardboard box.

I suppose we cannot discount that someone inside the Remington plant might have sticky-fingered an A3 into a plain "company" box. But how that was not caught in the serial number audits by BuOrd or Ordinance Corps.

Almost too many questions.

Now, were this without the box and its questions, cleaned of cosmoline, it's worth about $1200. Since it should be a '44 build, it should have all stamped fittings--trigger guard, barrel bands, etc. If it has milled parts aboard, then this was rebuilt by major unit armorers, or it was rebuilt in 1950 for Korea, and then cosomlined. In which case, the value takes a hit, down to about $800, assuming all the cosmoline is cleaned up and the stock is pretty. Now, if the barrel date is not 1944, or some of the parts are not stamped "R" the value will tumble a bit more, call it $700.

If we can solve the riddle, we'd be closer to what the antique museum people refer to as "provenance." That's because a good story adds value to things. See, if some remf from Mark Clark's G-3 shop sticky-fingered this thing and got it rotated back to conus and it's been in an attic since 1953, that would be a provenance, and be worth a dime or two (about 5000 dimes or more)

Ok. I finally saw pictures of the box and gun. It is hard sided and cardboard. The gun is wrapped. It has what looks like very wide squared gauze around the butt. My guess, that was for protection. I also saw a copy of the receipt from where the current owner purchased the gun for ~$2,300 back in 2006. He said he is willing to provide the name and phone number of the previous owner as well (It's on the receipt).

The current owner refuses to take the gun out of the wrapping. He only has taken it out of the box for pictures. The date of manufacture is when you said it was. If I can get my father to send me pictures, I'll post them so you can see what you think. I really don't want him to buy this gun. For the simple fact it's never been fired and doing so, to me, would hurt the value. And I'm not big on guns I can't shoot. But old men want what they want. so I'm trying to cover as many bases as I can.

Again, I really appreciate the insight CapnMac.

Jim K · May 27, 2017

Guns sold by Army Ordnance to NRA members were shipped in plain heavy cardboard boxes, wrapped in whatever paper was handy at that depot. Ones that had been stored were in cosmoline; ones taken directly from factory crates were oiled,

Many of those DCM M1903A3 rifles were brand new, unfired, and many purchasers kept them that way, figuring that some day they would be worth more than the $14.95 purchase price. They were right.

Jim

Jim K · May 27, 2017

I can't edit the above (why, I don't know) so I'll take another post to add that many of the M1903A3 rifles sold through DCM were brand new, unfired. They were taken directly from the factory crates and put into boxes for shipping to the customer. Those rifles are fairly commonly found in perfect condition, because the purchaser put them aside, unfired, precisely in order to keep them new and make them more valuable in the future.

FWIW, rifles were not shipped from the factory in cosmoline. The army wanted them to be available for use immediately, not after a week of scrubbing grease out of them. Rifles (and some other materiel) that would be put into long-term storage was dipped in hot cosmoline and stored in special containers

Jim

CapnMac · May 27, 2017

BigBore44 said:
I also saw a copy of the receipt from where the current owner purchased the gun for ~$2,300 back in 2006.

Wow, that's easily twice what the best ones on Gunbroker go for today, eleven years later.

And, I'm with you on only buying shootable guns. My Smith-Corona A3 is worth a dime or two more today than when I traded an AMT Hardballer and $50 for it back in the early 90s. It's a mixmaster, Remington bolt, mix of stamped and milled fittings. But, it's tight, really low ME & TE, shoots like a dream. So, I have to stop and recalibrate my thinking every so often.

I mean, if I found a toggle-action Pedersen rifle for only three grand, I'd jump on that (except they are going for another zero in the price).

Ok, the last James D Julia Auction catalog lists a

PRISTINE REMINGTON MODEL 1903A3 RIFLE.
SN 3719849. Cal. .30-06. 24″ bbl. Grey green phosphate finish with 2-pc walnut stocks. This simplified variation of the 1903 rifle utilizing many stamped parts is in near new and unaltered condition, showing no signs of actual use with Ordinance wheel inspection on stock and inspected by Frank J. Attwood. Equipped with green web M-1 sling and front sight cover. Bbl is dated 4 of 43. CONDITION: Rifle is as new, with only slight traces of handling from 70 years of storage without use. Metal retains virtually all of its phosphate finish with minute traces of finish loss at high points of sight and edges of buttplate and muzzle. Stocks are equally fine with no damage or distress and still retaining most all arsenal oil finish. 51389-12 TDW (1,200-1,750) C&R

It sold for $2300.
It was clean, no funny boxes, cartouched stock, '43 built, '43 barrel.
So, yeah, see if you can get the old man off the mystery and on to something more tangible. Shoot, get him logged in to James D Julia (even with the sticker shock

)

Oneeyejd · Jun 19, 2017

BigBore44 said:
Found an unissued and unfired Remington 1903A3 still in original crate from Remington to the Army and in cosmoline. No proof marks other than original Remington. Serial number 415xxx. Assuming everything I just stated is correct and factual, and the wood is in great shape, what would be a good guess as to the value?

My father found this gun and asked me. I have no clue about military firearms value. So much of it depends on so many things, and then finding the right person, at the right time, who wants it.

Thanks in advance guys and gals...
BigBore44

Interesting: My info says 1) this is a "1903" Not a "1903A3". (note: folding rear sight there ??) Serial number is correct for 6 digits, however any serial number below 800,000 did not get the "Dual Heat treat" and is subject to bursting if fired. i.e. not safe! (would not recommend even "low power reloads"-=-not worth the chance.
Still has some collector value.
You should go to the DCM web where the "experts" live............... a wealth of information.
Good luck.

BigBore44 · Jun 19, 2017

The gun sold. Dad waited a long time and bid it to the reserve. Immediately someone outbid him. So he let them take the chance.

Jim K · Jul 4, 2017

Sorry, Oneeyejd, Remington was not making M1903's by that time; the first serial number report was an error; The rifle is an M1903A3, and made in 1943, long after the "low number" period. I am sure your concern is appreciated, but not necessary.

Jim

Unissued/Unfired 1903A3 guesstimate value?

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