Show off your Scout Rifle

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Mine is an M1A Scout Squad(18.5" bbl) in .308 Win with walnut stock and a 3-9x40 Zeiss Conquest with RapidZ600 reticle. I have a Turner M1907 sling on it and have both 10-round and 20-round mags for it. I mount the scope with a Bassett Low Picatinny rail and Leupy rings. I carry a wrench for the Bassett in my pocket when I carry the rifle and I have the iron sights set for 200 yards as is the scope so I can use its BDC markings. They work well at a 7.5x magnification for my match loads using either 168gr SMKs or 165 gr Sierra Soft Points. I tried a forward mount scope but went back to the Bassett set-up.

This rifle will do anything I ask of it.

Harry
 
BreechFace said:
@Space Ghost would love to take a tour of your gun safe, you sir have great tastes on how to bring these old warhorses into the 21st century while maintaining their historical functions.
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I don't have a gun safe. I have a 9 gun wood cabinet made of cedar, with a glass door. I'm old school, plus kinda poor, living on VA disability, and praying like crazy I never have a house fire. But yeah, I think I have good taste, despite what my wife may think at times when she gets to thinking about the CJ7 I've been 3 years building in the garage...
 
WrongHanded said:
It's not a Scout rifle, but the Ruger Hawkeye Compact in stainless steel with a laminate stock is a gun I would certainly buy (in .308 Win) if it were available left handed. I'd throw a compact 2-7x on it and be a happy camper. It'd be nicer with an 18" barrel vs the 16.5" but nothing's perfect.
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For sure I think I'd normally choose an 18" over a 16" . My "Ugly Scout" the 7.7 has a 16.25" barrel, and it used to throw quite a flame with my heavy loads. I've not shot it since those days, but recently got a bunch of PPU 7.7 brass and loaded up some 150 grain bullets to normal 7.7 standards, or what is normally published for the 7.7X58mm. I hope it's a bit more "tame" then the crazy-loads I used to shoot back in the day. I've not heard any complaints about excessive flash and blast from the .308 guys with 16" barrels, and as the 7.7 is slightly less powerful than the .308 I think I'll be okay.
 
Skeptic13 said:
My go to hunting rifle.

View attachment 1036191
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Skeptic13 said:
My go to hunting rifle.

View attachment 1036191
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Very nice! But you can fix it!;)
48223042766_46e380971e_c.jpg

Not a fan of forward mounted scope and 85 year old eyes no longer fond of iron sights so fixed that.

Muzzle brake had to go; got tired of feeling muzzle blast in my fillings. :what: Didn't like the angle of pistol grip so fixed that to provide a straighter pull on trigger.
51094799057_3f06663f84_c.jpg
Short, handy rifle that fits. Oh, and replace the 10 round magazine w/5 rounder for better balance point, and now ya got my go to predator rifle.:D
35677806585_d43891e50f_o.jpg
Would Cooper approve? No, but if it fits you, go for it!

Regards,
hps
 
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I don't see why not. I think the Scout Rifle concept has grown and "diversified" and I don't think the ghost of Cooper would insist that it be held strictly to the standard or parameters, guidelines or "rules" set forth in the original definition.

Possibly in Cooper's day it wasn't as acceptable to envision or prepare (or really discuss) for society going south in the mainstream, so perhaps the concept of scouting had to be "mainstreamed" a bit. I think that now, "scouting" is probably seen in more of a military, or guerilla warfare sense. ? I would guess that a majority of us can conceive of things really going bad, whereas not too many years ago it was more like: "it can't happen here". Gangs of looters? People trying to raid your ranch, farm, or house out in the boonies? IMPOSSIBLE!!!!

What I'm getting at is that now we tailor our "Scout Rifles" more towards our own conception of what scouting is, and not so much a strict definitions of what a "Scout Rifle", the rifle it's self must be. So yeah, if the ACOG works for you, it would certainly have a place on your rifle. !! What are one's own requirements? Really anything can be used for scouting...maybe we should make distinctions between General Purpose Rifles, and "Cooper Scout Rifles".

My own idea of scouting, if things really went/go bad won't be the same as others. I live in a rural area, and would want to keep tabs on what's going on within a mile radius or two, so the traditional or "Cooper Scout" rifle would fill the bill with me, along with about every other rifle posted on this thread, including my 7.7 "Ugly Scout". We have Moose, Elk, and deer around here, but I suspect they'd all be eaten or driven out within a couple of weeks of insanity. Once the big game is gone, the ".22 Scouts" make sense. And that is a long way away from Cooper's thoughts.

If one lives in the city or 'burbs, perhaps a scout rifle would make no sense, no matter what kind of glass it had on it. !

Anyhow, ACOG, why not? Maybe today, it would be Cooper's first choice. :)
 
One further observation: while the Scout Rifle was supposed to incorporate a short list of characteristics, I think its one immutable core principal is light weight. If you discard that part of the concept, you loose the sort of 'magic wand' pointability that Cooper had in mind. The WWSD guys have rediscovered this same effect in a different platform.
 
Some interesting reading below published in 2021 about the Cooper Scout and other thoughts pertaining to current and past rifles.

Some parts may be more interesting than others, depending on one’s view of the topic.

Part 1 of 6
https://empty-cases.com/blog/analysis-of-the-scout-rifle-part-1/

Worth reading past Part 1, IMO.

Edit: Added links to parts 2 through 6.
https://empty-cases.com/blog/analysis-of-the-scout-rifle-part-2/

https://empty-cases.com/blog/analysis-of-the-scout-rifle-part-3/

https://empty-cases.com/blog/analysis-of-the-scout-rifle-part-4/

https://empty-cases.com/blog/analysis-of-the-scout-rifle-part-5/

https://empty-cases.com/blog/analysis-of-the-scout-rifle-part-6/
I suppose I shouldn't be surprised that a lever gun in .307 Winchester "won" the 11 gun comparison for that writer.
 
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chicharrones said:
Some interesting reading about the Cooper Scout and other thoughts, published in 2021 below. Some parts may be more interesting than others, depending on ones view of the topic.

Part 1 of 6
https://empty-cases.com/blog/analysis-of-the-scout-rifle-part-1/
Click to expand...

Interesting. What I find most interesting it seems with all these Jeff Cooper acolytes is often the portray usage of a “JC Scout rifle” with the caveat that it doesn’t meet Jeff Coopers standards.

I like the ideas surrounding much of the Scout rifle concept, except the box Cooper wanted every scout rifle to fit in was claustrophobic to say the least, which is why I never took his writings that seriously.
 
Ugly Sauce said:
I don't see why not. I think the Scout Rifle concept has grown and "diversified" and I don't think the ghost of Cooper would insist that it be held strictly to the standard or parameters, guidelines or "rules" set forth in the original definition.

Possibly in Cooper's day it wasn't as acceptable to envision or prepare (or really discuss) for society going south in the mainstream, so perhaps the concept of scouting had to be "mainstreamed" a bit. I think that now, "scouting" is probably seen in more of a military, or guerilla warfare sense. ? I would guess that a majority of us can conceive of things really going bad, whereas not too many years ago it was more like: "it can't happen here". Gangs of looters? People trying to raid your ranch, farm, or house out in the boonies? IMPOSSIBLE!!!!

What I'm getting at is that now we tailor our "Scout Rifles" more towards our own conception of what scouting is, and not so much a strict definitions of what a "Scout Rifle", the rifle it's self must be. So yeah, if the ACOG works for you, it would certainly have a place on your rifle. !! What are one's own requirements? Really anything can be used for scouting...maybe we should make distinctions between General Purpose Rifles, and "Cooper Scout Rifles".

My own idea of scouting, if things really went/go bad won't be the same as others. I live in a rural area, and would want to keep tabs on what's going on within a mile radius or two, so the traditional or "Cooper Scout" rifle would fill the bill with me, along with about every other rifle posted on this thread, including my 7.7 "Ugly Scout". We have Moose, Elk, and deer around here, but I suspect they'd all be eaten or driven out within a couple of weeks of insanity. Once the big game is gone, the ".22 Scouts" make sense. And that is a long way away from Cooper's thoughts.

If one lives in the city or 'burbs, perhaps a scout rifle would make no sense, no matter what kind of glass it had on it. !

Anyhow, ACOG, why not? Maybe today, it would be Cooper's first choice. :)
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Yep. Substitute the word "scout" with the word "survival" and the concept makes far more sense. Even in this modern world of home built ARs. But THR doesn't do SHTF content. That's fine, but it limits discussion on this type of rifle setup.
 
WrongHanded said:
Yep. Substitute the word "scout" with the word "survival" and the concept makes far more sense. Even in this modern world of home built ARs. But THR doesn't do SHTF content. That's fine, but it limits discussion on this type of rifle setup.
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Yeah, I hear ya. Except...the word "survival" has about as many interpretations and definitions as "scout" and envisions of "SHTF". !!!! Didn't realize THR was SHTF un-friendly, although I try to minimize such references. Which for sure limits the discussion of the "scout" rifle.
 
Dave DeLaurant said:
One further observation: while the Scout Rifle was supposed to incorporate a short list of characteristics, I think its one immutable core principal is light weight. If you discard that part of the concept, you loose the sort of 'magic wand' pointability that Cooper had in mind. The WWSD guys have rediscovered this same effect in a different platform.
Click to expand...

Hey...the Ugly Scout IS light! Bingo! But seriously, I agree with that. The lighter the rifle, the more food and water one can carry too. Or more ammo, if that is a concern.
 
Dave DeLaurant said:
One further observation: while the Scout Rifle was supposed to incorporate a short list of characteristics, I think its one immutable core principal is light weight.
Click to expand...

Yep. But Cooper also acknowledged that, to some extent, light weight is user dependent. Hence his test of grasping the rifle by the wrist, oriented vertically, arm extended at shoulder height, hold for 60 second. If you can't do it, your gun is too heavy.

I think most of us agree the whole "carry a lot, shoot a little" mantra is fine as long when you do shoot, you can still hit what you're aiming at. Lightweight can be taken too far and compromise shootability in my experience. Case in point, I can't hit a barn with my wife's Rem Model 7, at least from field positions we often encounter, especially when game is on the move (driven deer or those jumped while tracking). Sure it carries nice, but its too whippy in the hands attached to my 6'2' 285# body. At 5'3" and 125#, it suits her fine. But of course, we're hunting, where the point is to shoot the gun, effectively...once. If in a real "scout" scenario - to not be seen and shoot only as a last resort - maybe I'd opt for the lighter rifle.

Which brings to mind the thought that maybe the forward mounting of the scope serves to shift the center-of-mass of the rifle forward just enough to enhance the pointablity of an otherwise too-whippy gun? I'll never know from personal experience: too many compromises with the forward-mounted scope for me to spend time trying studying it. So my scout rifle isn't: a standard Ruger M77 tang-safety 308 with the barrel bobbed to 18.5", LOP shortened, and clubby wood stock reduced to a slim profile, conventionally mounted scope, right at 7#. And yes, it passes Cooper's weight test...for me.:)
 
0318212206.jpg Not sure if it fits the letter of the law for a "scout" rifle but it fits me well, and it shoots very well.

My 1916 Spanish mauser in 308, Gets fed a diet of light handloads, one day of like to take it hunting. It carries well, ballances well, has enough hurting horsepower for any reasonably purpose, isn't abusive to shoot and the fixed 4x scope is plenty for me. It's about the perfect rig for my tastes.
 
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JumboJVT said:
Yep. But Cooper also acknowledged that, to some extent, light weight is user dependent. Hence his test of grasping the rifle by the wrist, oriented vertically, arm extended at shoulder height, hold for 60 second. If you can't do it, your gun is too heavy.
Click to expand...

I also think that is a fitness check for many. Considering how light a 10 pound dumbbell is, compared to other dumbbells, and that most sporter rifles are lighter than a 10 pound dumbbell.
 
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Ugly Sauce said:
I don't see why not. I think the Scout Rifle concept has grown and "diversified" and I don't think the ghost of Cooper would insist that it be held strictly to the standard or parameters, guidelines or "rules" set forth in the original definition.

Possibly in Cooper's day it wasn't as acceptable to envision or prepare (or really discuss) for society going south in the mainstream, so perhaps the concept of scouting had to be "mainstreamed" a bit. I think that now, "scouting" is probably seen in more of a military, or guerilla warfare sense. ? I would guess that a majority of us can conceive of things really going bad, whereas not too many years ago it was more like: "it can't happen here". Gangs of looters? People trying to raid your ranch, farm, or house out in the boonies? IMPOSSIBLE!!!!

What I'm getting at is that now we tailor our "Scout Rifles" more towards our own conception of what scouting is, and not so much a strict definitions of what a "Scout Rifle", the rifle it's self must be. So yeah, if the ACOG works for you, it would certainly have a place on your rifle. !! What are one's own requirements? Really anything can be used for scouting...maybe we should make distinctions between General Purpose Rifles, and "Cooper Scout Rifles".

My own idea of scouting, if things really went/go bad won't be the same as others. I live in a rural area, and would want to keep tabs on what's going on within a mile radius or two, so the traditional or "Cooper Scout" rifle would fill the bill with me, along with about every other rifle posted on this thread, including my 7.7 "Ugly Scout". We have Moose, Elk, and deer around here, but I suspect they'd all be eaten or driven out within a couple of weeks of insanity. Once the big game is gone, the ".22 Scouts" make sense. And that is a long way away from Cooper's thoughts.

If one lives in the city or 'burbs, perhaps a scout rifle would make no sense, no matter what kind of glass it had on it. !
Anyhow, ACOG, why not? Maybe today, it would be Cooper's first choice.
Click to expand...
I think what a lot of folks miss in these SR discussions and debates is that Cooper was more of a popularizer than an originalist, so it matters knowing from where, and from whom, he sourced his foundational ideas.

For those interested, I can recommend Richard Mann's bible on the subject, 'The Scout Rifle Study.' Bottom line: Cooper was enamored with the lives, adventures, and writings of the western (and later African) scout Fredrick Russell Burnham ('Scouting on Two Continents'), and the American WW1 vet who fought with the Canadians in the early years, Herbert McBride ('A Rifleman Went to War').

McBride and his actual scouting/sniping experiences on the Western Front of WW1 is probably the closer to Cooper's concept of a what a 'modern' scout is, his mission, the make-up of his particular SR, etc.; yet it also follows that some (maybe most) of the derivative elements of Cooper's scout & scout rifle theories are thus quite dated.

Outside of the hunting context (my usage), or fun hours spent plinking at the range, or possibly as a general purpose weapon for those living in rural or remote areas (e.g., the Alaskan boonies), Cooper's notional theory of a light-weight, bolt-action SR running a forward mounted low-power optic, simply has no present relevance to the weapons and equipment suitable for a modern military 'scout.'
 
PonyKiller said:
View attachment 1036601 Not sure if it fits the letter of the law for a "scout" rifle but it fits me well, and it shoots very well.

My 1916 Spanish mauser in 308, Gets fed a diet of light handloads, one day of like to take it hunting. It carries well, ballances well, has enough hurting horsepower for any reasonably purpose, isn't abusive to shoot and the fixed 4x scope is plenty for me. It's about the perfect rig for my tastes.
Click to expand...

Nice lookin' rifle. I had that same make and model scope mounted on my K31 at one time. That scope handled recoil nicely on the K31 and my GSR. I ended up selling it to get a little money built up for a different scope.
 
Hesa Hard1 said:
. . .
Outside of the hunting context (my usage), or fun hours spent plinking at the range, or possibly as a general purpose weapon for those living in rural or remote areas (e.g., the Alaskan boonies), Cooper's notional theory of a light-weight, bolt-action SR running a forward mounted low-power optic, simply has no present relevance to the weapons and equipment suitable for a modern military 'scout.'
Click to expand...

Yep. Like I mentioned earlier, nothing wrong with a private citizen living in the past with some of our firearm choices.
 
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PonyKiller said:
View attachment 1036601 Not sure if it fits the letter of the law for a "scout" rifle but it fits me well, and it shoots very well.

My 1916 Spanish mauser in 308, Gets fed a diet of light handloads, one day of like to take it hunting. It carries well, ballances well, has enough hurting horsepower for any reasonably purpose, isn't abusive to shoot and the fixed 4x scope is plenty for me. It's about the perfect rig for my tastes.
Click to expand...

Nothing wrong with that rifle. That's nice. Have you seen mine? The "Ugly Scout"?? Now there's a real train-wreck!!! I think most of us have strayed far, or have deviated from the law. I think Hessa explained the original mindset of Cooper well (and with references!) when writing the law, better than I could. And a good point he made, which I tried to make, is that some envision the scout rifle as a General Purpose Rifle, some as a tool to use in a semi hostile environment, under specific conditions, and for many it's just a cool rifle to have and shoot.
 
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JumboJVT said:
Yep. But Cooper also acknowledged that, to some extent, light weight is user dependent. Hence his test of grasping the rifle by the wrist, oriented vertically, arm extended at shoulder height, hold for 60 second. If you can't do it, your gun is too heavy.
Click to expand...

Not a bad test, and of course, a valid rule of thumb for rifle weight might be what % the rifle is of one's body weight, rather than a one size-fits-all "rule" based solely on rifle weight alone. My Ugly Scout comes in at 7.3 pounds, but feels like a six-pound rifle. !!

But, again, I think that keeping the rifle weight reasonable allows one to carry other things that are important. Total weight of one's gear will determine when fatigue sets in, and everyone has their limit. And when fatigue sets in, concentration and awareness start to set out. Weight is important. Lack of food and water will increase fatigue. Trying to sleep under some bush without that poncho and woobie will increase fatigue. !! But again and again, that all depends on one's personal vision of the future.
 
Ugly Sauce said:
Not a bad test, and of course, a valid rule of thumb for rifle weight might be what % the rifle is of one's body weight, rather than a one size-fits-all "rule" based solely on rifle weight alone. My Ugly Scout comes in at 7.3 pounds, but feels like a six-pound rifle. !!

But, again, I think that keeping the rifle weight reasonable allows one to carry other things that are important. Total weight of one's gear will determine when fatigue sets in, and everyone has their limit. And when fatigue sets in, concentration and awareness start to set out. Weight is important. Lack of food and water will increase fatigue. Trying to sleep under some bush without that poncho and woobie will increase fatigue. !! But again and again, that all depends on one's personal vision of the future.
Click to expand...

Plus age. Not of the rifle, of the shooter. :D

I had a better power to weight ratio in my 20s than I do now in my 50s. :evil:
 
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