Pushing Too Hard?

Captcurt said:

We had ear muffs and JR has shot 22's, a 410, and a 223 AR, but not even close to being proficient with any of them. I feel that this will be a FUBAR outing for the kid and dad. Dad should wait a couple of years.

Click to expand...

I believe you are 100% correct, Captcurt! I hope you are able to convince Dad to let JR sit this one out.
Some kids are ready before others and other kids will never be enthusiasts of the shooting sports. I say let the youngster develop his own interests at his own pace.

My oldest son has zero interest in firearms and shooting. He's a bookworm and lego nerd and writes novel concepts and does stop-motion movies. I've taken him shooting several times and he goes along, brings a book to read, shoots (very well) a magazine full and hits the cans with every shot, and then says, "Can I be done now?" LOL

I say sure, and then we go get lunch or ice cream. Some kids don't enjoy what we enjoy. I have other kids who bother me weekly, "when can we go shooting again?" I take them to matches and to the range and we have fun. Depends on the kid. No point trying to make a kid like something if he's terrified of it and/or has no interest in it. Bad juju for the relationship.

I like the "try it once" philosophy above. But the parent has got to be aware and not create trauma by forcing the issue when it's obvious that there are other serious factors at play.

Telling a kid hes too young to shoot often works better than early exposure. Its like the the off limits cookie jar.

“Try it once” is a good philosophy if you’re talking about trying broccoli (or Japanese food), not so good if you’re talking shooting a high powered rifle or skydiving.

Once you tell Dad to do XYZ about something his son has to do to be manly, expect him to be angry as you will challenge his dominance. I understand that a child with a gun they can't handle can be a lethal accident in the making.

Every give someone an unwanted suggestion at the range about something they are doing wrong? Does it go well?

Just saying - I don't see a good solution. I once intervened with a Dad screaming at a 4 year old on the ski slope for not being able to do something. I later realized I could have been in for a fight but he relented and took the poor little kid into the chalet.

Captcurt said:

We had ear muffs and JR has shot 22's, a 410, and a 223 AR, but not even close to being proficient with any of them. I feel that this will be a FUBAR outing for the kid and dad. Dad should wait a couple of years.

Click to expand...

How did he handle the AR and the 410?

AR's can be loud and combined with the semi auto action can be a weird experience for new shooters (when shooting for the first time I shot a 22lr, an M1 Carbine and an M1 Garand at a CMP shooting class. The Garand made shooting any thing higher powered a weird experience for a time).

And 410's are sometimes way too light and can have a lot of kick with full power loads.

Maybe something like a lever gun in 357 mag might be a good choice to get him used to a more powerful gun? 38's are super soft shooting and full house 357 mags aren't bad at all

chicharrones said:

The lead sled doesn’t cancel out the bang. Some people hate the bang. That’s why my wife hates shooting, it’s too loud at the range for her, and that’s with good hearing protection.

Click to expand...

On the very off chance that anyone here doesn't know this, you can put foam plugs in your ears UNDER the electronic muffs and even otherwise really loud guns like an AR pistol won't bother you.

I hate to admit it, but that shy kid was me at 13. My old man got my older brother to shoot the 22 on the farm. They tried to get me to shoot and I wouldn't go near the gun. They told me I was missing out on some fun.
Three years later I was awaiting my fathers return from hunting trips so I could clean his guns. I shot every gun my father had by the time I was 18 and loving it. Gun maintenance was my job alone.
Cut that kid some slack and he will come around in a few years.

Maybe the dad and son could bond over a Appleseed even if there are any. Start w a 22 and a qualified instructor. Some times not having a parent around helps. They are not as nervous. Maybe ask your friend if you can take his boy to the range solo. 22 only! When he’s ready move up. Just my 2 cents.

Lots of good advice here! My opinion is let the kid decide. Sometimes a nudge and a little support will help find direction. But the problem is gauging just how much to nudge.

I dunno ... my boy was winning competitions at 6 and killed his first buck at 8. He was chomping at the bit to compete and shoot from the time I got him a BB gun, then a pellet gun then his first 22. He took to it like water. He practiced strict rules ... I taught him military style and he always followed instructions.

He actually took his first Tom at 9 years old which I held in higher regard than the buck he took at 8. (He took an 8 pointer at 8 btw ... it made the local newspaper). These days he wouldn't be able to do it because they require hunter safety courses and a minimum age of 12. I had actually fallen asleep sitting up in the blind the morning he took his turkey. Scared the snot outta me ... I was just a dreaming and drooling and thought I had been shot.

The kid is grown now ... graduated from college and working full time and he still would rather be in the woods than eat or sleep.

My daughters were that way too.

Some kids are just not cut-out for hunting and shooting. I've got a buddy of mine, big farmer of several thousand acres ... serious hunter and game manager. Just took one of the nicest bucks I've ever seen this past October up in NC. It was all over FB. Neither of his boys care a lick about it .... neither are shooters or hunters. All they care about are video games ... and they're grown young men now too.

I think sometimes the mothers are the ones who influence those kinda boys a little too much but who knows.

Perhaps the kid's not cut out to be a hunter. I am strictly a paper puncher. And yes, more time with the 22.

Personally I never push. I’ll suggest, I’ll offer… but if the kid is hesitant the last thing I want is to make it so they dread it or grow to hate it.

My kids are diverse; two love guns and dirt bikes, one lives for dance. But if they didn’t want to do those things, I would not make them.

Stay safe.

If genuine interest- and the Child likes the idea….Toy pop gun, Cap Gun, BB gun, pellet gun, 22 single shot , Lever/repeater….. maybe a semi auto on Occasion.

357 Carbine shooting 38s and then 357…


Then 44 spl in a 44 mag carbine. Or Low power 45 Colts With a Carbine.

Gradually working up… keeping distance short to build confidence. Animal hunting, Under 50yards.


That’s my plan for second son…. Worked well with first.

After that… Graduate to a single shot Longer range carbine

Here are some Marlins Jm Twins (Size is about that of a Red Ryder)-perfect for the task. 357 Cp and a 45 Colt and a Ruger #3 In Straighwall that I reload for. Can shoot squirrels to Large game. Heck that 45 colt can equal a 454 Casull power if I wanted.

My oldest Son at 14 shot First buck at 120 yards with the Ruger.

If the goal is to help the boy enjoy shooting and subsequently hunting, then Dad's going about it all wrong. On the other hand, I know a son who was acting scared like that to fry a piece of chicken in hot oil on the stove. Should his dad have just determined he's not ready yet? Or should he give him the proverbial kick in the pants to stop acting like a sissy fool?

Not opposed to toy guns, cap guns, or airsoft, but skipped them to teach kids gun safety from the beginning. If they play with toy guns in a way that would be unsafe with real guns, then they must be given a clear concept of the difference. Because we do not want them to ever actually see the difference in consequences, we would need to be totally dependent on the abstract concept being clear in their minds. That's a hard thing to be sure of with a lot of kids. We can demonstrate with a watermelon or a meat target, but they still have to grasp the abstraction beyond the whiz-bang melon explosion and reason inductively through the permanent consequence that results when the target is intentionally or unintentionally another person. It's conceptually simpler and easier to begin with discipline - muzzle control, trigger finger, certainty of target and backstop, and that there is zero tolerance for carelessness or foolishness.

Even with toy guns- “Point in safe direction” “Not at a person” was usual Teaching.

Worked well for my Son, yet your correct - not all kids are the same with respect to a Gun… Toy or Real.

I will also add that the noise of guns is by far the most startling and unnerving thing. With -30dB muffs, I still jump out of my skin when a hunting partner takes a shot next to me and I can't stand indoor ranges. If I double-up, plugs and muffs, I can take recoil all day, 12 gauge magnum until my shoulder is black and blue.

For kids, it's important that hearing protection FITS. They need plugs that actually fit, and they need help installing them correctly. I won't trust that the plugs are inserted correctly since I can't feel them myself. So they need muffs too and they will need kid's size or youth size muffs. Adult size cups will hang below their jaw bone and leak. If they haven't much experience, they won't even be able to recognize there is a problem and ask for help to fix it.

My, thank God, ex son-in-law pushed the grandson into playing peewee football. He had less than absolutely no interest in the game and it showed in his playing. He became a permanent benchwarmer because of his lack of interest and the jerk son-in-law caused all kinds of trouble because the grandson wasn't being played.

I'm sure its already been asked or recommended but if the father has never shot with the boy before and he hasn't got an opportunity to get comfortable with a rimfire then .300 could be an intimidating foray into shooting...

Plus, every kid is different. If I'd been asked by my father to shoot an '06 or 12ga I'd have done so, I'm pretty certain the first rifle I ever shot was a Winchester 94 30-30 and was around 9 years old.

I've also seen kids apprehensive to shoot .22's as well. One of the last times I went out with my friend and his kids, 10 yo boy and 7 year old daughter, the boy looked like he might cry and was very sensitive, petrified actually about shooting an (actual gun). What's funny though is the lil girl had no fear and couldn't wait to get her hands on the rifle.

The boy did much better the next time and cannot wait to have his own gun. I believe a lil pushing is good, but forcing, especially with a centerfire is definitely not advisable. Let any small or apprehensive kid cut their teeth on a .22lr.