Oh Lord is this a doozy of an article

And regardless of what some women in modern society may want to believe men and women ARE different. There are standards of manliness that most men understand and most women never will and one of them is men don't quake in their boots and lose their water just because they're doing something unfamiliar - especially if what they're doing isn't inherently dangerous.

Click to expand...

Are all those Navy fighter pilots who are uniformly scared poopless when doing their first carrier night landing, just a bunch of sissy wusses, then?

I'd strongly recommend the book Deep Survival, by Laurence Gonzales. He profiles a lot of people who have pulled through and kept their wits under the most extreme situations. If you want to question the masculinity of the guys in there who were SCARED when in unfamiliar situations, read the book and be my guest, but I think it's fair to say that such criticism would be grossly unjustified. It's an excellent read, and very helpful in understanding the fight-or-flight response.


http://www.deepsurvival.com/
http://www.amazon.com/Deep-Survival...3495642?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1186681536&sr=1-1

Now, there is a stereotype in American culture that says that men are supposed to pretend not to be scared when they actually are scared, and that to admit being scared when one is doing something unfamiliar that one perceives to be dangerous is somehow "unmanly." I think that pretention is not helpful, and definitely not in any way inherently masculine. IMHO, it takes a bigger man to admit you are afraid of something than to convince yourself you aren't.

The guy in the article thought that shooting was inherently dangerous, based on a lifetime of guns-R-bad propaganda. The fact that he's misinformed doesn't mean his reaction isn't normal, given what he has been taught about guns. Our job is to gently correct those misperceptions, not blast him for his failings, real or perceived.

I've had the privilege of changing a few people's minds on the gun issue, some of whom initially approached the issue with the same misperceptions and bias as this guy. NOT ONE of them was won over by harshly worded criticisms, insults, or personal attacks; every single one that changed their mind, did so as a result of logical, rational persuasion.

every single one that changed their mind, did so as a result of logical, rational persuasion.
The result of taking the high road, to coin a phrase.

After three pages looking, I skipped over the rest.

Has anyone just realized this is another man with an agenda. His entire article reeks of it.

And he ain't, by necessity, a sheeple. He might be one of the cannibal wolves.


Jerry

Something that a lot of people seem to be missing is the fact that an anti took the time to actually go to the range. Unfortunately it was a very negative experience for him. This was a golden opportunity that got thrown away.

I'm not sure how many of you have shot on an indoor range before. I never had until just a couple of years ago. In fact I made a thread about it.http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=108808 You know why I made the thread? Because it was LOUD, and it was uncomfortable being indoors with 6 other people in a space no wider than my garage while we all discharged firearms. I had shot outside almost my entire life, I had never been in such close proximity to other shooters. I had absolutely no idea the stupendous amount of noise a firearm would generate in an enclosed area. In fact I was uncomfortable as heck being on that range. I later learned to be quite comfortable while shooting indoors by wearing two sets of hearing protection. But I can understand the guy wanting to get off the range. I have thankfully moved back to Maine now and don't have to endure indoor range trips anymore. Read some of the responses in that thread, they are kind of enlightening.

Anyone who never shot a firearm but grew up on a steady diet of Magnum P.I., the A-Team, Red Dawn, etc.. would thinks guns only make a 'POP!" when fired. Now imagine your surprise when your first real firearms experience (sorry his Boy Scouts trip doesn't count) is one where you are getting hammered with other shooters muzzle blasts. Sounds like fun, huh?

Worse yet, whether the gun store staff made fun of him or not he felt they did. That is a guaranteed way to ruin someones good time, insult them after they handed over their hard earned money. I have no idea if they insulted him or not, but his perception was that they did.

And on top of it all he gets vitriol filled tirades via e-mail from gun owners who live up to his exact image of what we, as a whole, try NOT to be.

Think how much differently this could have gone if the store staff had started him on .22 pistol, given him double hearing protection, and gone into the range with him for just 10 minutes of instruction. I think the story would have been quite different.

This was a missed opportunity. I have no idea if the guy has an agenda or not. But the chance to sway his opinion of firearms and the people who own them has sadly been forever tainted by this trip. And as much as we don't like it, his voice is a lot louder than ours as he writes for a newspaper.

By the way, I am pretty sure this didn't happen at The Gun Store. They are ANAL about safety there. They ask lots of questions about previous firearms experience before you get anywhere near the range. In addition, when you rent an MG there they accompany you onto the range and supervise your every action, they obviously don't want any accident, or worse yet, bad press!

My opinion

If he went to a gun range at all, I'll lay odds it was The Gun Store, on Tropicana about 2 miles east of the Strip. (I lived briefly in Vegas and went there a couple of times. The shop is much less impressive than they make themselves out to be, but they are extremely good at marketing themselves.) It is quite probable that the personnel (who wear uniform shirts that are not plaid) might have said things like that. It would not have mattered. He could have gone to Beverly Hills and still have written the same drivel. At worst, it is a total fabrication, just one step in cleverness above the article a few months ago featuring a revolver that automatically ejected cases. (Remember that one? It was discussed here.)

Jerry Morris, I don't understand why so many of the posts on this thread are affording the author so much latitude. I thought that it was blatantly obvious that this fellow has an agenda ...

Re post #104: right on!! That was a really good post.

Guys, if it bugs you when antis tell you that you are "compensating for something" when you buy a gun ...

... if it irritates you when some clueless git says your favorite rifle is a phallic symbol and your handgun is a penis substitute ...

... if you think it's outright stupid and maybe even insane to believe that shooting is the sole province of white, male, middle-aged, rural-southern rednecks ...

Then:

Stop equating firearms prowess with being male!

If you do it, how can you possibly gripe when someone else does it to you? If you believe that owning a gun makes you more of a man, why is it so wrong when the grabbers say exactly the same thing about you?

Well, maybe they're right after all. If you really do believe that your gun and your ability to use that gun really is an extension of your manhood, maybe there's something drastically wrong with the way you think.

THR is about responsible firearms ownership, no matter who you are. It's about a lifestyle of intelligent self-defense, no matter who you are. It's about the right to make your own choices and the responsibility to live with those choices. And it applies to all of us: Male. Female. Black. White. Brown. Gay. Straight. Old. Young.

Firearms ownership and use is a HUMAN right.

pax

They should have given him a .500 S&W with some hardcasts. Atleast it would have been entertaining for him.

Well, maybe they're right after all. If you really do believe that your gun and your ability to use that gun really is an extension of your manhood, maybe there's something drastically wrong with the way you think.

THR is about responsible firearms ownership, no matter who you are. It's about a lifestyle of intelligent self-defense, no matter who you are. It's about the right to make your own choices and the responsibility to live with those choices. And it applies to all of us: Male. Female. Black. White. Brown. Gay. Straight. Old. Young.

Click to expand...

All well and good, but traditionally (and rightfully, imo), part of the measure of a "real" man has been his ability to defend himself and his own--by extension, his ability to fight with deadly weapons. Our society generally frowns on that idea today as backward and barbaric, or as some kind of compensation by insecure males, but men still do have the seemingly in-built need to exhibit prowess and strength in front of others, regardless of what society wants to teach them. And men should be encouraged to be strong and tough and to fight hard and well at the right times--that's part of perfecting the capacity or duty that nature or God gave us. Those are necessary--even noble--virtues. I don't imply that women can't or shouldn't defend themselves, yet I wouldn't be quick to dismiss the many men in this thread who have understandably seen weapons as a natural extension or expression of their masculinity.

Because it was LOUD, and it was uncomfortable being indoors with 6 other people in a space no wider than my garage while we all discharged firearms. I had shot outside almost my entire life, I had never been in such close proximity to other shooters. I had absolutely no idea the stupendous amount of noise a firearm would generate in an enclosed area. In fact I was uncomfortable as heck being on that range.

Click to expand...

My only real option is indoor ranges, and I know what you mean. Part of the trick of shooting well for me has been to overcome the natural uncomfortable reaction of starting at ridiculously loud noises and being surrounded by total strangers with deadly weapons. And then the total newbie also has to acclimate himself to the fact that he's igniting a controlled explosion in his hand when he pulls the trigger, plus deal with all the misinformation and stereotypes he's likely absorbed from our culture for decades: guns=death. The article-writer sounds like a man on a (bad) mission, but if it were a real-life situation like that with a newbie who had a genuine interest and not an agenda, I would cut him some slack and help him out.

This is who we're dealing with. http://www.xanga.com/billzuck

These are a couple of replies he's posted.

8/7 - Gosh, people love their guns. This column touched off an amusing flurry of online comments on the Sun Chronicle website. I'm tickled to evoke so many comments, even though some were pretty insulting! Note their new online policy starting Sept 1st, in an effort to discourage such insults. Was this due in part to the reaction to my "controversial" column, I wonder??


8-9 - Update: Okay, apparently The Sun Chronicle took down the comments that followed my recent column about guns (see below). But unbeknownst to me, someone posted the column on a conservative news forum here. I was clued in thanks to several dozen emails in my inbox from gun enthusiasts from Texas to Nevada who wished to provide their two cents about what I'd said regarding guns. The emails ranged from polite invitations to try visiting a gun range again in hopes of better results, to plenty of nasty insults that were downright laughable. I'm a bit amazed to have touched a nerve with so many people. For some more insults (both nasty and laughable), check out the comments that follow my column on that forum.

Not knocking anyone, but glad there's been an attempt to keep things somewhat civil in this thread. What would we think if the forum he linked to was THR?

I really hate articles like that. There is absolutely no purpose to the article whatsoever....oh wait, the purpose is to reinforce the idea that guns are scary, bad, and dangerous.

Because it was LOUD, and it was uncomfortable being indoors with 6 other people in a space no wider than my garage while we all discharged firearms. I had shot outside almost my entire life, I had never been in such close proximity to other shooters. I had absolutely no idea the stupendous amount of noise a firearm would generate in an enclosed area. In fact I was uncomfortable as heck being on that range.

Click to expand...

He should try earning a living in some of the shops I have worked in during my adult life. Sometimes,a man has got to do what a man has got to do,,,, just to get by. Unless Welfare Doles appeal to you more than honest work.

Jerry

Once again, this thread is about someone, who is entirely disingenuous. The article writer is a liar in every way. All you need to do is read his article and it is obvious.

2+2=4, it is as easy as that. He labeled himself a liar with all his own contradictions against himself..



Jerry

Jerry Morris said:

Unless Welfare Doles appeal to you more than honest work.

Click to expand...

Wow. Can we say "reaching"? Not sure how this is at all relevant.

The article writer is a liar in every way.

Click to expand...

How are you so sure? I would have felt the same way as he did if I were him.

Wow. Can we say "reaching"? Not sure how this is at all relevant.

Click to expand...

Nope, not a reach. Sometimes conditions are tough. A gun range is loud, but if you are only paying money and it is terrifying, you leave. Those of us who have had to work under conditions as bad, or worse are not going to put on the kid gloves for those who put on this show.

How are you so sure? I would have felt the same way as he did if I were him.

Click to expand...

I went and researched him. I know Sin City. I analyzed his article. I found 2, then another 2 and came up with 4. Have you read any of his other articles? You can butter up facts only so far,then it becomes a lie.

Think about it. Ever been in terror? I have. And I have read about it. Could you, at a time you were so scared you were about to wet your pants, quickly reload 44 rounds into a revolver? Your fine motor skills go to pot. You fumble and miss,maybe even drop things. Had this been the case, i am sure he would have had no problem with telling us.

I doubt he even went to this range in the first place.