Illegal Immigrants and Gun Ownership

Quite a few statists we've got here

There are some in the Democratic party that want to give illegals driver licenses and the right to vote.

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I'm going to sit right here and wait for you to tell me which Democrat in congress wants to give illegals the right to vote. Please, enlighten the masses of uneducated folk here. If you mean some no-name nobody in the party, then I wil point you to republicans that want all brown skinned people rounded up and deported.

And for all those who say the constitution only applies to citizens. I sure hope you aren't a lawyer, or get paid to give legal advice.

The supreme court has consistently ruled that some of the amendments apply to everybody under the jurisdiction of US law. That means anybody standing on US soil.

The 2nd amendment isn't considered one of those that applies to everybody on US soil, though it is worded that way.

Seriously, just use common sense. If the laws only applied to citizens, every non-citizen, that includes tourists, international students, and visitors (legal or illegal), can be searched, beaten up, denied a lawyer, and killed.

The 14th amendment is bloody clear on that.

nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

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In a word NO!

Section 922g prohibits illegal aliens from possessing firearms.

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I know the OP mentioned that he did not know the laws, so it is good to have it stated, but we are not really discussing what the law is. We are discussing what the law should be. Section 922 has a lot of parts of it that a lot of people here disagree with. Note: I'm not saying we should throw out 922g, and I'm not saying illegal aliens should be able to buy guns.

I speak of those who willingly and knowingly break our laws. I could see it differently if we had no legal way for foreign nationals to enter the country. But we do. Therefore, enter illegally and your are a criminal. You forfeit the protections we enjoy. The Constitution does not apply to you.

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I would say that we might just have to agree to disagree, but since I can't find a firm stance yet (I am speaking of my own stance . . . I see that you have a firm stance) I can't really disagree.

I understand that they are foreigners, and not citizens, but the fact that they are criminals alone does not throw out the protections stated. In fact, a couple of the protections seem to be solely aimed at the rights of those accused of breaking the law. Since some of the protections still apply to criminals, what makes the 2nd different?

The right is "God given", meaning it came before the framers. What they "wrote down", as you put it, is that the right is protected for The People. Illegals do not qualify for "The People" status. They are foreign nationals, a People of another nation. Again, the Constitution does not apply to them.

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If something is truly a basic, natural, Creator given right, it is wrong to infringe on it whether someone is protected by a document or not. That is the issue that is bothering me.

I threw out the question in the "should felons own guns" debate so I'll ask it here.

Should people in the US illegally be able to legally purchase a firearm? I don't know the laws on this, so I don't know if its currently possible.

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It's the same question. Should Illegal Immigrants be allowed to purchase guns... Not only no.. But hell no. That being said they probably just buy illegal/ stolen guns anyway.

Should Legal Immigrants be able to buy guns.... Of course. Why not?

It's the same question.

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Not technically. In one case he is asking about felons. Being in the US illegally is a misdemeanor.

I may need to reverse my position

Illegal aliens should be allowed to buy firearms. At which point they are not longer illegal aliens. They are foriegn invading militia. at which point they may be treated as an invading armed enemy.


just don't sell them ammo.

Not technically. In one case he is asking about felons. Being in the US illegally is a misdemeanor.

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What is stealing someones SSN? Fraudulently collecting Social Security/welfare? Tax evasion?

Sure being in the States illegally is a misdemeanor. Living and working in the US illegally....

A. They're not U.S. citizens

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Legal Immigrants can own fire arms without being citizens.

<<<< Case in point.

Illegal immigrants cannot legally own firearms

Illegals should have no rights except to be treated humanely as they are deported.

Speeding is a crime. So is driving without your seatbelt

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The final gasps of liberty occured when Americans accepted a law for their own good rather than any other logical constitutional reason.

?????????

there has already been a ruling on the constitutional rights of non citizens.
My memory might not be exact but I do know it was disided by the supremes.
might have been panamas president.or the killer of the american drug agent in mexico.
interesting that american citizens are banned from owning guns if convicted of any crime but illegals can buy.interesting.mybe we do need hillery.
---:banghead:---

FWIW, waterhouse, you're not the only one who understands that the Constitution doesn't grant rights; it simply recognizes their existence.

Judging by the amount of shameless weasel-wording going on, there must be a whole lot of Clinton fans here!

What with the "only citizens" can own guns comments? Legally, that isn't right. As long as you are on US soil, you are entitled to the constitutional rights. There is simply no requirement for citizenship.

What does this mean? This means the government can not prevent non-citizens (who enter legally) from buying firearms. While this is rarely an issue, they are afforded the same legal rights. So Bob, from Germany, can stop by in the USA for the weekend and buy firearms.

Now, many said illegal aliens are felons. This is also legally incorrect since they never had a trial. But if they buy a gun (while committing a felony) then they are doing more things illegal.





I think it would be a miss justice if we started treating new legal immigrants like 2nd citizens and not allow them to have gun rights (like we did to the blacks at one time).

Illegals are just that, ILLEGAL and they are entitled to NOTHING humane treatment excepted.
No food stamps, free housing, drivers licenses, welfare checks, education, dog ownership OR extended FREE medical care.
Zeke

...they are entitled to NOTHING...

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So the government can take away God-given rights? Or is it, as another remarkably creative poster posited, that the government isn't taking away the right, it's just forbidding the exercise thereof?

Why is this open? We don't do political debates here anymore. I demand that a moderator get off his lazy butt and do something to earn his pay!

Oh yeah, that's me. Never mind.