Help turn a pansy lib into a gun nut!

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nutter

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No, this post is not a joke.

Before we start, yes, I am a liberal, but no, I am not an "anti" and never have been. I'm a big supporter of the second amendment, I'm pro gun-rights, and I oppose any sort of gun control (yes, including AWB). OK, now that we've got that out of the way...



I didn't grow up around guns and have never owned one. This is because I'm an urban dweller and have never had a use for one. Yeah yeah, I know, self-defense. But I don't need one, truthfully, because I have a head on my shoulders. I stay out of situations, and even having lived in some of the worst neighborhoods in the most dangerous cities, I can always find a way out of a situation without the need for deadly force. I have shot a half dozen times times. Mostly borrowed pistols and rentals, tough I did get to empty a few magazines from an AR-15 once which was a blast.

But to be truthful, things are getting scary out there. I've reassessed my situation, and basically came to the conclusion "its better to have a gun and not need it, than to need a gun and not have it." The primary use for my gun would be range shooting. After that its just to have it in case, heaven forbid, of a HD of SHTF situation. I've decided its time to practice what I preach and become a gun owner.

I found this forum when searching for information online and really like it. It wasn't two days lurking and reading here that I went from "OK, I'll buy a gun just in case", to planning my arsenal and forming a collection in my mind! Haha! But first things first... this is where you come in. Living in the People's Republic of California and consorting with fellow liberals like I do, I don't know any gun people. I don't want to be like the "new gun owners" in this thread. So I need your help.

My questions fall into two basic categories, safety, and gun selection.



So, how do I go about becoming a responsible gun owner?

Do I take a class? Do they offer them at any ol' gun range or store or what? Do I take a class before I get a gun, or do I buy first and learn with my own weapon? Are there standards for classes and what do they consist of?

Basically, I don't even know what I need to know. So please give any advice for what and how someone should learn in order to become a responsible gun owner, starting from zero.



And what gun should I pick?

Ah, finally the fun part. You have to have bullets for a gun to be useful, so affordability and availability of ammunition are paramount. I briefly, actually, considered some autopistol that would take .22LR, but that seems like too much compromise. I'm pretty sure my fist purchase will be a 9mm of some sort. I have about $500 for this, and I expect a couple hundred will go to fees and licenses and the like, and then there's ammo, so something in the range of $300 is my best guess.

I was eying the Bersa Thunder 9mm Ultra Compact, but I learned that CCW is not an option where I live, so now I'm thinking something full-size would be more appropriate. The reduced recoil with a larger gun might be usefull for a new shooter too. Remember this is a "first gun", not the last one I'll ever own, so I don't need all the bells and whistles. Just something reasonable that will fire when I need it to. Suggestions?



I'm hoping y'all can help turn me into a "gun nut" in a responsible way. Thanks in advance for any help.
 
Forgive me but I'm going to give a very short reply to your well-considered questions.

Don't get a handgun first.

Get a good shotgun, .22 rifle or lever gun and get familiar with their capabilities. Get familiar with the four rules as well as your local range rules with these rifles and you will build a good foundation for handgun use and safety.

Just my opinion, ignore at will.
 
Local ranges often offer classes that will help. Often, if you show up on a less than busy day, they might even take some time to educate you. Many even rent guns to try out.

Importantly, follow the following rules:

1. All guns are always loaded. Even if they are not, treat them as if they are.

2. Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy. (For those who insist that this particular gun is unloaded, see Rule 1.)

3. Keep your finger off the trigger till your sights are on the target. This is the Golden Rule. Its violation is directly responsible for about 60 percent of inadvertent discharges.

4. Identify your target, and what is behind it. Never shoot at anything that you have not positively identified.


I would also look into reading some books. I'd recommend "In the Gravest Extreme" and "Combat Handgunnery" by Massad Ayoob. In the Gravest, explores some of the general moral and legal aspects and Combat kinda goes over weapons and usage. Both are a good start.


BTW, you are going to catch hell being a liberal. :neener:
 
Welcome... You're on the road to being a responsible gun owner. You're asking questions and learning before you just jump in...

As far as your choice in guns, I'm a wheel gun fan (aka revolver). A nice .357 would make a great range and HD gun. Ammo is available, you can shoot 38's for less kick and lest cost. Best of all a revolver is as simple as a hammer to operate IMO.
 
A 12 gauge pump action shotgun would be a great choice, but it really may not be what you want for investigating noises in the home. If you know an intruder is in the house, barricade up behind the bed with the 12 gauge on the door.

As for handgun choice..... I like 1911s in .45 ACP Rock Island Armory makes a pretty good inexpensive one. A .357 Magnum would be a really good choice for the beginner though.
 
Oh for God's sake people...

My first gun was an AK-47. I never grew up around guns. Get something meaty (an AW), treat it like a deadly weapon when you go shoot it. You'll be fine.

Frankly, if you can't operate an AK-47, you shouldn't be let around a toaster, let alone a firearm.

The key is something that's easy to shoot and easy to maintain.
 
Perhaps I am being too cautious, but I kept trying to think of how it would be to be fresh to all of this. I was unsuccessful. I've grown up around firearms and firearm safety has been drilled into me. It is difficult for me to imagine coming to firearm ownership anew.

Consider my first reply a well-intentioned failure of imagination.
 
Help turn a pansy lib into a gun nut!
Click to expand...

Hire someone to protect you :neener:

Just kidding, Take some lessons and shoot some different guns and let the process begin. Soon you will be a gun nut !!!!
 
My Own Example

My first gun was a .22LR carbine (Ruger 10/22).

It was a good choice for me because I needed a) to learn gun safety, and b) to practice, and practice, and practice.

And practice.

And the cool thing about a .22 rifle is that you can do a WHOLE LOT of practice without killing your budget.

You learn the basics (safety, shooting, cleaning, etc.) without a massive initial cost.

Further, all the indoor ranges I've visited allow .22LR rifles as well as pistols, so you can get in some winter practice in comfort.

That was what I, personally, did.

I moved from that to a .22LR pistol (the Ruger MkII) and learned pistol technique, again, without breaking the budget.

By the time I was ready for bigger stuff, I had a tiny clue, and had watched others shooting, and my choices were better informed.

Please deposit two cents.

:D

And welcome to The High Road.

 
I think a 9mm semi-auto is an excellent choice if you are only going to have one handgun for awhile. I have been shooting a lot of .22 lately but I don't think I would want one as my only gun if self-defense is part of the equation.

I bought handguns first because that was what I was interested in. I have since purchased several rifles, but still love handguns.

Ask a lot of questions, read a lot, observe a lot, practice as time and money allow. Most good ranges will have good shooters that are more than willing to instruct a new shooter.

If you are looking at 9mm handguns your choices are many. I like the Springfield XDs and the CZs, but Glock, Ruger, Kahr, etc. all make excellet firearms.
 
Where do you live?
Reason being is I would be happy to give you a hands on insight into things if you'd be willing to drive to my location and try it for yourself.
 
BTW, you are going to catch hell being a liberal.
Click to expand...

I fully expect this, and I'm ready to take the heat.

I kinda want to shy away from the politics, but I will say that its never made sense to me that gun control is part of the so-called "progressive" agenda. I've converted a fair number of "good liberals" to dropping gun control from their platform, but I still don't know anyone who owns a gun, so I'm very appreciative of the open and welcoming nature of this forum.

Don't get a handgun first.
Click to expand...

I mentioned that after a few days on THR I'm already hooked. I'm plotting my arsenal - a selection of handguns, a carbine that shares ammo with one of them, a 12-gauge shotgun - but for my very first purchase I think a handgun would give me the most utility.

As for handgun choice..... I like 1911s in .45 ACP
Click to expand...

I envision having a "centerpiece" gun at some point, but I can't go too much over $300 right now. "Just the basics" to get me started, then I can choose what's best for me on a later purchase.

My first gun was an AK-47. I never grew up around guns. Get something meaty (an AW), treat it like a deadly weapon when you go shoot it. You'll be fine.
Click to expand...

When I rented an AR-15 with a bunch of friends I was by far the best shot with it. I'm not afraid of a big gun, just don't have much use for it. This is also why I don't think I'm going to start with a shotgun - being larger its more difficult to store and transport.

I'd recommend "In the Gravest Extreme" and "Combat Handgunnery" by Massad Ayoob.
Click to expand...

Books would be a great place to start! If you had to recommend only one, which Ayoob book would you go with? I'll throw it in my next order from Amazon.



So it sounds like I should just take a trip to a range and see what they offer in terms of classes, etc. Is there anyone in the San Francisco Bay Area that could recommend a particular place to go?

Thanks again!
 
I'm amazed that no one has suggested an NRA sanctioned basic safety course

P.S CZ makes a good basic handgun for just a little more that your 300.00$ range, or you could go w/ a used CZ82 for just under that
 
Treo beat me to it.

Best investment would be NRA basic pistol, rifle and shotgun classes, followed by the NRA defensive pistol class.

You'll get a great basic education and be able to fingure out how to buy a gun that fits you, instead of relying on countless keyboard commandos (myself included)
 
Ah, thanks for the tip about the NRA! I found a "Basic Pistol" class less than an hour away. Is this the right class for a beginner? Do I have to bring my own pistol?

Its almost $200 which is a lot, but not knowing what I'm doing I like the idea of a structured introduction.
 
What ozwyn said.

Basic pistol class would be a great place to start. Contact the instructor, find out if he furnishes the firearms. Also find out what books he recommends. We see too many folks showing up at the range that have had zero instruction and dont have any idea what they are doing, and are safety hazards to boot. Get the class. :)
 
Welcome, nutter! You sound an awful lot like me, one year ago. I've been a registered Democrat for 15 years; my only previous experience with firearms was .22 rifles at Boy Scout summer camp 40 years ago and a few 20ga rounds off the back of a cruise ship. I'd never owned a gun, but I've always been interested in them and just decided it was time to do something about it.

My first step was to take a NRA "Basic Pistol" course. It teaches the basics of handgun safety and also qualified me for a concealed weapon permit, although that wasn't my purpose. I then bought a Browning Buckmark .22LR pistol. (Even if your first purchase is a self-defense handgun, I'd recommend getting a .22LR also; the ammunition is much less expensive to practice with.) I was very fortunate that a really nice private indoor range opened about a half hour away just a couple months later. I've been there at least once a week since then, and I now own 4 handguns and a .22 rifle. I'm having a great time.

I would recommend an NRA course as a first step. Then find a local range that rents handguns. I'd suggest a private range, just because they're less likely to be populated by unsafe knuckleheads, but they generally require some financial committment. You might also enjoy the NRA Marksmanship Qualification Program. It gives you some specific goals to work toward in your shooting. The lower levels are pretty easy, but I've found the Distinguished Expert rating in Bullseye Pistol to be plenty challenging.
 
Thanks John Wayne. Here's my survey:

The semi-official “I’m buying a gun” questionnaire.

I’m buying this firearm for…
• Self Defense
and range shooting

Research
• I’ve done a little research

Type
• I think I’m looking for a Semi-Automatic Pistol

Trigger type
• I don’t know what triger type would be best

Has a recent crisis been the driving force in deciding to get a firearm?
• No

Experience
• I don’t have much experience but have fired a couple pistols before.

Training (I have had the following…)
• No training

I am
• Male

Physical Size
• Large

My hands are
• Large

Do you have any problems with your hands (arthritis, missing digits, etc.)
Nope.

Concealability (I plan to carry)
• CCW not an option where I live
Click to expand...

As mentioned before, I have around $300 for the gun itself, and I think 9mm would be the best choice for size and affordability.


Thanks DaveB for your story and suggestions.
 
Rock island Arsenal GI 1911.
1. It's $395 out the door
2.it has less recoil than a lot of 9mm
3. It's an all steel pistol [see above]

Argentine surplus BHP 9mm [if you can't be talked out of 9mm]
1.Cheap available ammo[save your brass,you'll either get into reloading,or some mail order companys will reload your brass for cheaper than just buying thier reloads...]
2.I have one it is a simple pistol to own operate and clean.
3.It's an all steel pistol.
4.I bought mine for $300.00,right here in California.
 
Bersa Thunder 380. Absolute best gun $250 can buy, IMO. It is compact, reliable, concealable and most importantly, it is extremely safe. Look it up, you'll see what I mean.
 
The Rock Island Armorys are cheap and great pistols from the classic 1911 design.

A good choice for cheap will be a 4" .357 Magnum revolver. Cheap, reliable, great for figuring out trigger control, accurate. Taurus, Ruger, Smith And Wesson are good ones (You might have to find the Ruger and Smiths used though).

Which book? "In the Gravest Extreme" would be my first choice, but it won't give you the basics on handling. Just ingrain the rules I posted above and it'll be a great start.

Good luck!
 
nutter,

Where are you in California? If you can be more specific, I'm sure a number of members here will be more than happy to meet up with you.

BTW, I'm in the Bay Area.

-Pat
 
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