Gun store what to do

Dbaggerly · Apr 6, 2011

I stopped by my local gun store to pick up some ammo, and I couldn't help but notice this couple. I may be wrong put they looked like noobs. That didn't bother me, I was a noob not that long ago. What bothered me was the fact that it was a total straw purchase. The man picked out a Rugar 357 and and S&W AR 15, however, he had the woman do the paper work. When the man at the counter walked to the front of the store, I heard the man say "If they ask don't tell them you are buying these for me." The clerk got a little suspicious when he came back and the man told him that he wanted a red dot for the ar and 200 rounds of ammo. So the clerk asked if the gun was for him or the woman, the woman made this huge deal about how the gun was for her, and that she thinks that she will need it soon because the end is coming. So here I am witnessing a straw purchase. I just didn't say anything and paid for my ammo.
So here is the question did I do the right thing or should I have said something?

M-Cameron · Apr 6, 2011

So here is the question did I do the right thing or should I have said something?

eh....there are going to be people on either side telling you that you should MYOB or that you should alert the media.....and neither one of them are going to be right...

if you were to tell the clerk....it would ultimately be your word against theirs.......

now it sounds to me that the clerk already had suspicions, and sold the gun anyways....which is a no-no on his part.

however....personally.....if i had been in your situation, and over heard them planning a straw purchase, i would have let the clerk know.......if the guy didnt want the guns in his name...or didnt want a background check....its probably for a reason and he most likely shouldnt be owning firearms.

Ohio Gun Guy · Apr 6, 2011

That's quite bothersome! Dont do anything rash, but I think I would do something........ I'll be interested to see what THR thinks of this.

Sky · Apr 6, 2011

Good question?

pikid89 · Apr 6, 2011

as much as i think the the straw purchase laws are a sham, that seems pretty fishy
if he really was prohibited, why even bother with an FFL,
...I dont know what state the OP is in, but in most places, 2nd hand market FTF sales are legal with no paper trail or background check

Geckgo · Apr 6, 2011

I wouldn't feel bad at all if this guy got caught. Shame on the clerk,, maybe. Was this girl his wife?? Could be a misunderstanding if there was a different bank account and she was buying them for a gift, iow, her bank account was full and his was empty, and this was going to be a "gift." Still probably not legal,, grrr hard to say man, but they definitely should have worked everything out ahead of time rather than drawing attention to themselves. In short though, yea, it looks like they are deliberately breaking the law, the clerk needs to tell someone when he calls up to do the background check.

txhoghunter · Apr 6, 2011

I know that I see billboards that say, "Buy a gun for someone who can't, buy yourself 10 years in prison"

I would say something. And just to check my math, 10 years * 2 guns = 20 years in prison?

MAKOwner · Apr 6, 2011

I guess I would mind my own business. You don't actually know what was happening just from one comment you overheard, which you easily could have misheard too. He may have been her gun knowledgeable friend helping her pick out a SHTF rifle and innocently told her not to make them think she was buying it for him specifically so he didn't raise straw purchase concerns. That's reaching but thats the point, you don't know the situation and it really isn't any of your business. It is the gun store workers obligation. Maybe something else they discussed with the dealer that you didn't hear cleared up the dealer's apparent concern...

ndindy · Apr 6, 2011

A while back my hunting partner was buying a .22lr cricket for his kids birthday. Pink. But he didn't have his local DL on it so they wouldn't sell to him. No problem I say, I'll buy it and give it to her. No go says the counter guy, straw sale. I personally don't think this is the firearm that the ATF is after with the law, but it is what it is.

If I recall correctly the clerk has the obligation to refuse the sale if he even suspects it's a straw purchase, and I have 0 issues with someone raising their voice if the person is obviously not supposed to have firearms. Mandatory 10 years Fed time for possession by a felon if I recall correctly.

jerkface11 · Apr 6, 2011

I have 0 issues with someone raising their voice if the person is obviously not supposed to have firearms. Mandatory 10 years Fed time for possession by a felon if I recall correctly.

I for one will not help them enforce an unjust law. In fact if the ATF can let guns walk that end up in the hands of mexican gansters letting this gun walk shouldn't bother them at all.

REL1203 · Apr 6, 2011

Personally, if I knew the shop, a place I spend my time and money at, and especially if I knew the people working there, I probably would have tried to pull one of the guys over and tell them what I heard/thought. I know my Local store employees are good people, and I want the store to stick around, so my raising my concern to one of the employees would have been good enough for me to think I either helped or had a "No harm no foul situation"

Dulvarian · Apr 6, 2011

What about large chain stores that don't know the state laws well enough to know what constitutes a legal sale in the state?

Zaydok Allen · Apr 6, 2011

What about large chain stores that don't know the state laws well enough to know what constitutes a legal sale in the state?

Then that store needs to hire qualifed individuals who have been properly trained and have been tested on the law. This would not be an excuse in a court of law. They better know what the heck is going on with federal and state laws, or they will eventually be slapped with a huge lawsuit the first time they sell a gun to a maniac or felon. They could lose their FFL. I'm guessing the big chains are pretty darn careful about who they put behind the gun counter.

txhoghunter · Apr 6, 2011

What about large chain stores that don't know the state laws well enough to know what constitutes a legal sale in the state?

"Ignorance of the law is not excuse"

and I'm quoting Ron White who quoted a New York City judge on this one

Davek1977 · Apr 7, 2011

What about large chain stores that don't know the state laws well enough to know what constitutes a legal sale in the state?

If they are going to sell firearms, it is their responsibility to staff accordingly. Not knowing the law isn't an excuse for breaking it, especially where gun sales are involved.

RimfireChris · Apr 7, 2011

It's a tough one. Situations like ndindy outlined pointed out the bs parts of the law, but it's the law all the same. I honestly don't know what I'da done either, I think you'd have to go with your instinct at the time. I know most gun shops, even the local ones, have the signage up about straw sales, so it's not like anyone on either side of the counter can plead ignorance. I might have pulled another employee aside, and had them let the one doing the transaction know.

Sam1911 · Apr 7, 2011

What about large chain stores that don't know the state laws well enough to know what constitutes a legal sale in the state?

Not only is that inexcusable, but this is federal law anyway.

youngda9 · Apr 7, 2011

Telling would be the "right thing" to do.

But the results of doing that are a he-said/she-said and it would go nowhere. They would just go somewhere else and purchase the firearms.

So I think walking away caused everyone the least headache. The guy was going to get his guns one way or another...there is another shop down the street that his girl could have bought them from without the guy even present.

Gun laws don't prevent crime. <--That period is bolded

Bubbles · Apr 7, 2011

Speaking as an FFL, I would greatly appreciate a heads-up if that were going down in my store.

And yes, I would have quietly given someone the heads-up on it.

skoro · Apr 7, 2011

Just for the sake of argument...

... is presenting firearms to family members with no legal problems considered a straw purchase?

Maybe they were husband/wife and she controls the purse strings. Just a thought.

x_wrench · Apr 7, 2011

small mom and pops places have a hard enough time making it these days. a local shop went down here about 6 months ago. i would have tried to tell someone, even if i had to leave the store, and call them on my cell phone to do it. if it turned out to just be a mistake. no harm, no foul. but if it was something illegal going on, you may have saved the shop if it was an atf sting.

Sam1911 · Apr 7, 2011

... is presenting firearms to family members with no legal problems considered a straw purchase?
Maybe they were husband/wife and she controls the purse strings. Just a thought.

You can legally buy a gun as a gift for someone else. You cannot buy a gun for someone else. Here is an ATF training tool that explains it: http://www.atf.gov/training/firearms/ffl-learning-theater/swf/toon4.html

ATBackPackin · Apr 7, 2011

Yeah I would definitely quietly let someone behind the counter know. Not to play cop or try to be the hero, but simply to let the shop know. That way they can make an informed decision whether or not to make the sale. I'm sure the shop would appreciate the info to cover their buttocks. I would not want to see them get in trouble for a straw purchase.

In my opinion if the guns were really for her then why would the gentleman feel the need to say that to her? If I were assisting a woman buying a gun, I cannot imagine a situation where I would feel the need to say anything along those lines.

Shawn

bannockburn · Apr 7, 2011

When I worked at a gun shop years ago, everyone there was well versed as to Federal laws and regulations regarding a straw sale. If any of us had the slightest suspicion that there was something questionable about the sale, the transaction was ended and any paperwork that may have been started was set aside for the ATF. In some cases the manager would call around to other area gun shops to let them know what was going on in case the people would try the same thing somewhere else.

If I was the OP in this particular situation, I probably would have tried to pass what I had overheard on to the clerk. Regardless of what I think of Federal gun laws and regulations, this couple was trying to do something illegal and it would have come back on the gun shop if something bad happened as a result of them selling the guns to them.

Ally · Apr 7, 2011

I know this is probably going to sound like a really dim question, but I think I'm missing something, so I'll ask. :uhoh:

When I bought my pistol I had to apply for a pistol permit, have the background check done, be issued the permit, and then took that - along with my DL - to the gun shop to purchase. They kept the permit, and I also had to fill out several more pages of additional paperwork. Signatures everywhere, etc., etc.

So I don't understand how these people went in and purchased (the Ruger) at all, no matter which one of them it was doing it. Can someone fill me in, because I find the scenario, and "What would you do?" question an interesting one.

I guess "straw sale" has something to do with this.

Gun store what to do

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