Disappointing Incident in Gun Store

Status
Not open for further replies.
Before we moved to a place that we could shoot at home I shot for many years at a gun club with a range. Over the years there I watched safe firearm handing degrade there to the point that they had to hire a range officer. A lot of folks these days have learned to handle firearms by watching TV.
 
Yup, visiting gunshops might let one miss out on some of the nonsense.
Or skew their view based on bad experiences spaced out to only when they're there.
Stuck behind the counter, 6 days a week, all day............you will see how bad things are.

There seems to be some new fashion/cultural thing.............a gunshop a supposed great place to show off you carry rig, loaded, to strangers.

Had plenty of folks looking for a holster, bring in their carry rig (on them or fetch from vehicle) and unload it while pointing at me. They couldn't do that at the car?
They couldn't ask to go to the range a few footsteps away and go out to a lane to unload?

Nope.

They have to do it right by you. Point it at you too.

Of course then there's the safety purists that go loud and nasty when somebody sweeps them with a rack rifle, checked 3 times by clerk, action open.... like they have a megaphone. They usually declare any gun pointed at them is just flat out wrong. Of course when they walked into the shop every freakin handgun in the cases was pointed away from the sales staff. Read: pointed at the loud customer chewing somebody else out.

They marched right up to 100+ handguns pointed at them, but justify being a horse's arse to some new kid, lady or old fart that "swept them" (maybe, maybe not) with a verified and easy to see unloaded rig.

Okie dokie.
 
FWIW I wanted a big digital sign that flashed "dumb arse" above the rifle racks, centered. Tied in to television at end of counters on wall.........

silent trigger of it when somebody did or said something super stupid.

Boss said no :(
 
There seems to be some new fashion/cultural thing.............a gunshop a supposed great place to show off you carry rig, loaded, to strangers.
Click to expand...
I agree with you. Carry guns shouldn't be removed from the holster unless they're needed or at the end of the day when it's time to put them away.
They marched right up to 100+ handguns pointed at them...
Click to expand...
There is absolutely no comparison between a firearm lying in a case and one being held and dryfired by a human.
 
While it's not unheard of for something bad to happen in a shop or at a gun show, the odds are against it. There are idiots everywhere and you'll just wear yourself down trying to correct them all.

I may be in the minority on this, but you can seldom go wrong by minding your own business. If it bothers you that much, just try to stay 'up range' from the offending party.
 
While it's not unheard of for something bad to happen in a shop or at a gun show, the odds are against it.
Click to expand...
It's also against the odds that you'll be a victim of violent crime this year. Sometimes it's not about the odds, it's about the stakes...
 
Plain and simple, any time someone points a firearm at another person, they have stepped over the line, period. I would walk out of that LGS never to return again if the clerk allowed that type of mishandling to happen without intervening.

I worked in an LGS, and we never would have allowed someone to point a firearm at another individual, regardless of how well the weapon was cleared. There are other appropriate things to point it at, anything besides a human being. It's one thing to sweep someone with a clear weapon in an LGS, it becomes a completely different act when you intentionally take aim at them, IMO.

GS
 
I would not be unhappy if someone made a complaint to the store manager or even police that the person pointing the firearm was threatening. Sorry, there is no excuse to practice doing a dumb thing and expecting to do it right when the firearm is loaded. Just have to lose that headset.
 
While it's not unheard of for something bad to happen in a shop or at a gun show, the odds are against it.
Click to expand...
The odds are against fire and auto accidents, and violent crime, and lots of things. We still take steps to reduce those chances for ourselves, and for society when we are able. In the case of gun safety, WE ARE ABLE.

There are idiots everywhere and you'll just wear yourself down trying to correct them all.
Click to expand...
Sure, there are idiots everywhere. We do NOT have to suffer idiocy at our gun ranges and gun stores. Stand up and say something. The life you save may be your own. But it may be your friend's, your neighbor's, that of the proprietor of your favorite LGS. And, the life you save may be the one that doesn't make it into your local papers as another sensational gun accident, another tragic death "due to guns."

I may be in the minority on this, but you can seldom go wrong by minding your own business. If it bothers you that much, just try to stay 'up range' from the offending party.
Click to expand...
This is not a case where "minding your own business" is the appropriate answer. In thousands of other instances, I'm totally of that mind. BUT, when it comes to firearm safety, you CANNOT go wrong by standing up for best gun handling practices.

So often in society it only takes one person with just an once more moral courage than everyone else in the room to totally change the current of how things are going, and how things are done. One voice that says, "Hey, that's not cool. Please follow Cooper's Rules: Treat every gun as if it was loaded and NEVER point one at anything you aren't ready to destroy!" can be the simple prompt that clerk, and all the other clerks, and the other customers needed to hear to find their own voice and swing into line.

They DO know better, and the repeated laxity they're exposed to can wear them down. They think the whole world is full of ignorant slackers who don't know and refuse to care about safety. A guy (or gal) can only take so much before his/her own determination to uphold safety drifts off the straight and narrow. ONE customer willing to step up and say what MUST be said can be enough to put the spark back into that clerk and, as oregoneng (and others) point out, WE are the teachers who will make the biggest impressions on new shooters and our fellow gunnies. We, their peers, the average joes who they discover WILL NOT stand for bull(crap) gun handling, and WILL say something (politely) to correct it.

Be the good you want to see in the world. Just in this one thing, if none others.
 
The problem is, no matter how polite I try to be, it rarely end wells.
Click to expand...

And yet you keep doing it. Has anyone ever told you the story about insanity being defined as repeating a given action over and over and expecting a different outcome?

However, the safety rules are the rules, I have never heard of exceptions regarding stores, shows, etc, so IMO it is still unacceptable.
Click to expand...

Ok but who empowered you to enforce them in someone else's place of business?

It's been my experience that people don't take kindly to random people interjecting themselves into their business so as a general rule I don't

I'm positive none of those people knew (or cared) that you were an instructor and even if they did it wasn't your house or your place to correct the employee as he made perfectly clear.

The older I get the more I am convinced that no one is going to change their behavior because some random stranger (me) tells them they should. So I either mind my own business or, if the behavior is extremely egregious, I leave.

Luckily my favorite gun shop is right next to my favorite used bookstore. If I can't go to the one I go to the other.:D
 
Last edited:
Guy B. Meredith said:
I would not be unhappy if someone made a complaint to the store manager or even police that the person pointing the firearm was threatening. Sorry, there is no excuse to practice doing a dumb thing and expecting to do it right when the firearm is loaded. Just have to lose that headset.
Click to expand...
Calling police and reporting this as threatening is...honestly it is a far greater safety violation than the OP reported. The best case is that you are wasting police officer time. The worst case we have another Walmart incident (cops shooting a guy for holding a bb gun the store sells). Either way every bit of the harm that resulted would be your fault.
 
Once at the Cabelas customer service desk a guy beside me uncased a rifle with the muzzle pointed at my wife and me. I pushed it aside and said something. The employee wasn't going to do anything.

I quit going to Gander Mountain after trying to look at a Ruger 22/45. The guys behind the gun counter were having a great time gossiping and didn't notice me until I finally spoke up. Wanted to look at a 22/45 with a threaded barrel. One of the employees said they didn't have any. I said, "what about that one right there in the case?" He pulled it out and pointed the muzzle right at me, without even attempting to check the weapon. I said something like, "don't point that thing at me," wheeled and walked out.
 
Well, if you want to do some good...rather than coming here and complaining about this lax attitude about firearm safety...do something positive. Go into the offending shops at times when customers are not fondling and mishandling guns. Talk with the sales personnel and explain your concerns to them...help them to understand the importance of doing it right.
 
It's awesome when you go to a gunshop and you're the only customer there :)

If I go and there are others I don't know, I'll hang back.
Am not against politely distancing myself from strangers, and newbs handling guns might be nervous enough, they sure don't need me near them.

And..........when a couple of idiot regulars come to my LGS, I don't say anything or cause a scene.....just tell the guys "later" and walk away politely.

If I wanted to check something out (serious chance of purchase), and have to be someplace else.........I'll just call and have it set back for me to check later or next day.

Heck, if they get something in I like and I haven't stopped by, they text me.
My LGS guys are knowledgeable and safe, and good guys on top of that.

Have been at other shops were some staff were questionable, and they allowed some weird customers to do odd things.

You can get a vibe for a business.........maybe catch them on a bad day, or with bad worker. If the nonsense happens more than once, yeah I won't be going back to that shop.

Been at this stuff for 40 years. Most shops have been top notch. The scary customers used to be a rare thing. They have bred like rabbits.


:)
 
Last edited:
there are no background checks for wanna be dirty harry mental midgets who go into a gun shop to handle a fire arm.

You can NOT tell most gun owners anything about gun safety because most think they have been there and done that...and wrote the book Most men I know think they are good drivers, and good shots... that is until you invite them to your gun club, put a gun in their hand and they cant even get on paper. They look at the gun , and offer every lame excuse, but the fact that shooting a 22 at a State Fair, and winning a teddy bear qualifies them as an expert shooter.
 
Yet another reason I steer clear of gun stores; at this point I have no need or desire to be around people who don't know what they're doing and guns stores are increasingly full of those types.
 
Well, the clerk is clearly more interested in the immediate sale than trying to keep you both happy.


Regardless of if I would actually say something or not, I wouldn't be back if I was told by the clerk to "walk away" for telling some guy and his idiot wife that it's unsafe to point a gun at someone. What was the store? I can understand someone else in a store not liking being told that they're being unsafe, but to get the same response from an employee is unacceptable. As a consumer, it's your obligation to let a store know that they're facilitating such stupidity, and to let everyone else know what that store is.
 
One of the reasons I have almost stopped going to gun shows.

I have been in three shows when an empty gun on a dealers table fired!

Then it got my goat to be walking along and find a red laser dot on my shirt from three aisles away!!

Not to mention the teenage Ninja's showing off all their moves with low budget swords in the aisles!

rc
 
Many gun owners I know are people I would never invite into my home.. THey are the ones who think the strict safety rules of my gun club, reduce their ability to have a Good Ole' Shoot-um-up Time at a range...
 
A local lgs owner shot himself in the hand permanently reminding him of his mistake. The auto pistol had been briefly checked by both the seller and the lgs owner. Neither noticed the round suck in the chamber that the extractor failed to remove. Consequently the store owner pulled the trigger with a near complete removal of the left ring finger.

Every firearm is loaded. Always.
 
Ed Ames said:
Calling police and reporting this as threatening is...honestly it is a far greater safety violation than the OP reported. The best case is that you are wasting police officer time. The worst case we have another Walmart incident (cops shooting a guy for holding a bb gun the store sells). Either way every bit of the harm that resulted would be your fault.
Click to expand...

Exactly. Contrary to popular belief, police are not always trained to deescalate the situation.
 
I have come across this exact sort of situation a few times in my life. In each case my comments were received in a gravely respectful manner. Much has to do with how the message is delivered. While it would feel good to act like an edgy RSO in that sort of situation, the end result would be negative with no lesson learned.

It has to be about safety and education -- and not about how right you are or how wrong they are...
 
I agree completely....

Aragon- I agree completely with your premise. It is very unnerving when
people mishandle firearms but, how we respond makes a huge difference.
I was brought up to respect and enjoy firearms. I was not allowed to handle
them without a knowledgeable adult with me.
I quite often see people who are not well trained in general "weapons safety".
They don't always respond well to advise but, most do appreciate the help.
As people that do understand and greatly admire/respect firearms; I see this
as a chance to give back or rather share our knowledge with others.
Thank you for your insight...
P
 
Was the customer and clerk wrong in the way the gun was handled?

Yes. Regardless that they both may be absolutely perfect in checking for an empty chamber their entire lives.

Was the OP right in pointing out their behavior was not safe?

Yes.

Now we get to the "how successful was that?"

Not very. He explained his credentials, what the problem was, and was still cussed for doing it. What we have is a public who despises authority and isn't not impressed by busybodies who intrude in their behavior. This is America NOW, not what you grew up with, or how you would like things to be.

"I'm a credentialed firearms instructor who knows safety." is perceived as "I'm in authority and you lesser beings need to heed my commands." I don't think the OP intended to communicate that message, but the reaction seems to indicate there was far too much of that between the lines for the recipients. Like it or not, the message, posture, and behavior was intrusive and was taken as being overly demanding.

It's how the message is perceived, not how the speaker thinks he's saying it.

You can be right as rain, with angels backing you up armed with lightning bolts and the heavens opened up shining glory around you - half the population in America will take it WRONG. To them you'd be a nosy busybody in a shiny suit demanding allegiance to your personal cult of self worship.

You didn't intend that - the message was received that way and Instant Fail. Get the @#$% out of here was the answer.

Can we police the entire world? There are those who would say that isn't the appropriate mission internationally for our Armed Forces, and they might have a point.

Can we police newbs with poor safety habits in every gun store? APPARENTLY NOT. Something has to change to get the message across, because the message of gun safety is more important than anything else.

Some parts of what was said were not taken well, Ok. Don't use those phrases in the future as they are RED FLAGS that distort the meaning of what you say.

"I'm a trained instructor." NO. Sorry, it's elevating your status up front when safety is the important factor. Anyone should be able to point out the problem, and what "rank" they have is the LEAST important factor. A ten year old should be able to point out bad gun handling habits and get the message across.

"You are pointing the gun wrong." We don't have the literal explanation but the people seem to have gotten that idea, at least in the way they reacted. It's too blunt for modern society. It might be short and to the point - but it still wasn't taken well.

We are trying to get the message across, not trying to "instruct" others. Them getting the message and altering their behavior is the goal. We need to use other motivators to do it.

Like, "I'm sorry to butt in, but a customer is concerned about having a gun pointed at him and the trigger getting pulled." In and out. Walk away and leave discreetly. Do not turn around and get eye contact. Message delivered and move out.

You want to follow up later, call and talk with the manager. Act as if you were another customer and leave the same message - don't set yourself up to be identified as the Bad Guy Intrusive Range Nazi who is demanding obedience to The Holy Rules. It's just another data point to the owner - he gets a lot noise over the counter every day, he needs more positive feedback that gun handling needs review. Aiming guns at customers and pulling triggers is a Bad Thing.

It's making the situation confrontational that distorts the message of Safety and which makes the general shooting public become more and more obtuse about it. All too often it's said that male shooters are hard to teach - and the large majority of instructors will say gender makes no difference. What they are really saying is males get into an locker room measuring contest to see who is the Alpha - and let's be honest, "certified shooting instructor" tends to start that. Whether they are attempting to do that we don't know. What is true is that most other males THINK they are - perception - and regardless of what the instructor thinks, everything he says will be perceived in that frame of reference.

That is why someone with the best intentions for safety gets told off - the message content was dressed in the wrong words and body language. If it was done right the customers would have simply said "thank you" and things would have turned out better.

If you ARE a certified instructor and you see bad gun handling habits being perpetrated, is it more important the offenders know you have a higher status, or is the point to get them to stop doing it? Start thinking about the message and delivering it successfully. I can guarantee they could care less about your qualifications. What they need to care about is being dangerous around others and how you communicate that well enough to make them want to change their behavior.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

D
  • Locked
(NC) Gas station clerk shoots suspect
Replies
15
Views
858
kart racer
K
W
  • Locked
(NY) Store owner shoots back 09-15-03
Replies
1
Views
587
Standing Wolf
S
S
  • Locked
Store Clerk fights back...and wins!!!
Replies
17
Views
2K
Darrin
D
D
  • Locked
Gun store what to do
2 3 4 5
Replies
113
Views
6K
Sam1911
S
T
  • Locked
Taser fails, clerk resorts to gun (or, fired for breaking company policies?)
2 3
Replies
64
Views
2K
scrat
S
Back
Top