Disappointing Incident in Gun Store

[Sam1911]

Yup!

You have to tailor the message to the recipient to get results, but going wide open and public (without threatening or being very negative) will work on the most people, most of the time.

 

[entropy]

I've seen similar, normally the first snap gets my attn at which point I know it's not loaded therefore I no longer care. It's basically like in the same moment I realize it could have been a problem, I also realize it's not a problem.

It's kind of like "Oh crap I'm glad that wasn't loaded.....oh well, they can snap away now"

I'm big on minding my own business, likely to a fault. So I rarely say anything. But I don't really see as much negligence as most people report in gun stores, maybe I'm just not observant, maybe I just don't spend enough time in them.

That doesn't work so well with revolvers.......

I've been on both sides of the counter, and at the gunsmith bench, too. Having one come onto the shop area with one in (besides the 'can't get it out ones', which are clearly marked) is very annoying. I understand the store is five guys deep, all waiting for help, but please, counter guy, take that 10 seconds to check it before you bring it into the shop.

 

[wojownik]

Some years ago, I was curious about the whole Glock thing. After the clerk gave me the whole Glock spiel ( I guess that would be the "Glockenspiel" ), he racked the slide before handing me a pistol. And a round popped out. He froze, popped out the mag ... which was fully loaded.

The clerk said "<removed>", apologized, made a comment about maybe the store owner took the new gun to the range, and we went on to look at other things. ( I didn't bother mentioning that if the shop owner took the gun to the range it's not exactly "new" anymore).

Point being that stuff happens for any number of reasons, even the ridiculous. A firearm should never ever ever be pointed in an unsafe manner, and any store employee that does so should probably rethink what they're doing in that job.

Speaking of gun store owners, when I recently picked up my Colt Series 70, several blips happened. While the store clerk finished up the paperwork, he laid the 1911 on the counter, muzzle pointed at my groin. He quickly recovered with a grimace and said "oops, not good" and swiveled the gun to point away from anyone, including my special area ... OK, ... two minutes later, the shop owner was handed a .44 revolver in a rug. The owner proceeded to take it out, fondle it, work the action, all while pointed square at my chest. I softly noted that I was sure glad he checked to see if it was loaded (which he of course hadn't). He cleared his throat and moved off to the sidelines. The clerk quietly said to me "good for you. Boss man doesn't like to be correct by us worker bees."

So, the firearms safety rules have a corollary - don't just keep an eye on what you're doing, but be very mindful of what your neighbors are doing ...

 

[Gun Master]

Should I Reward Stupidity, Abuse, and Threats to My Saftey?

No way ! They don't deserve any of your precious time or your hard earned money.
I would like to see you report this to your local police department, the BBB, and directly with the store owner.

 

[Sam1911]

Ok, can we not suggest that this is a matter to all the police over? That's going to get somebody a negative outcome we don't need.

 

[shafter]

I think any time a person has a gun pointed at them they have the right to speak up and demand that the muzzle be pointed in a safe direction. Getting "lasered" at a gun shop counter usually doesn't make me freak out, but if someone was deliberately aiming at me or dry firing at me I would speak up.

It sounds like in your case speaking to the manager would have been a good move.

 

[FireInCairo]

I've seen this behavior in stores and while it can be a bit off putting, I don't see it as a huge deal. We're talking about guns that have never been shot (except maybe once at the factory) and/or have been compulsively checked rechecked and checked again for good measure before being put on the rack.

Personally it just feels wrong to point a gun in an unsafe direction to me even at a store, but I don't really feel the need to correct others behavior in this setting.

Yes

 

[JohnKSa]

We're talking about guns that have never been shot (except maybe once at the factory) and/or have been compulsively checked rechecked and checked again for good measure before being put on the rack.

Gun stores sell used guns, not just new ones, and the guns in gun stores aren't always checked as thoroughly as they should be. I posted an incident earlier in the thread where a customer was shot in the head in a gun store because someone was pointing a gun at him and "dryfiring".

 

[FinnComm]

The rules are there to protect us from the stupid and careless, and the rules needs to be clear and easy to understand for everyone.

If you start adding situational conditions for whether the rule should be followed or not, someone with less up-top is going to make a mistake one day and someone get's hurt.

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

Actually, the rules are there to protect EVERYBODY, not just the stupid and careless. Rules tend not to help the stupid and careless quite so much as the rest of us.

 

[drcook]

It is a big deal. At one time in my career I was an insurance agent, one of my clients was a gunshop/shooting range/sporting goods store.

One of the employees took a gun into the range to test fire it, left one in the chamber, walked back to the counter, put the gun down and went to operate the register.

A customer picked up said gun and proceeded to blow the end of his finger off.

The insurance company we had them with, paid the claim and dropped them. We never could get them insured again, but someone did. The insurance company said they wouldn't do anymore business with gunshops. Eventually other sloppiness cost the owner his FFL. He just got sloppy in his business practices and in the employees he hired.

 

[FinnComm]

Actually, the rules are there to protect EVERYBODY, not just the stupid and careless. Rules tend not to help the stupid and careless quite so much as the rest of us.

"Actually"....if you would care to slip on the specs and re-check my post, you will see I wrote that the rules are there to protect us from the stupid and careless. I did not write that the rules are there to protect the stupid and careless.

Here it is again:

The rules are there to protect us from the stupid and careless, and the rules needs to be clear and easy to understand for everyone.

 

[horseman1]

This is my two cents.

I've coached football in the past for many years. What I found out about people is that different people respond to different ways of coaching. It's really hard to know ahead of time which technique they will respond to to get them to improve. In this case, I have an idea that might work well for most people in a gun shop (customers and employees).

If I owned a gun shop, I would have a nice large sign describing the gun handling rules I expected to be followed by customers and the employees. It would also encourage anyone that isnt sure about something to ask. In that case, the OP could have just quietly walked up and softly said "Hey, better check out that sign".

Otherwise, when we see poor gun safety, we could always use the Bill Engvall approach: "Here's your sign!"

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

"Actually"....if you would care to slip on the specs and re-check my post, you will see I wrote that the rules are there to protect us from the stupid and careless. I did not write that the rules are there to protect the stupid and careless.

Here it is again:

Heh! I had my specs on, and actually clean at the time, and I read every word, including "from".

The rules only to protect us FROM the stupid and careless IF the stupid and careless actually follow the rules in the first place. Unfortunately, it is the nature of the stupid and careless NOT to follow said rules...hence "stupid and careless".

But I do understand what you're trying to say.

No worries, mate!

 

[Yo Mama]

My take on it:

1. Don't go back to the shop, call the owner, who I doubt would be ok with his clerk acting that way.

2. "If you point a gun at me, it should be ok for me to point one back, best not to let that happen so let's all play nice"

3. I know at least one Gun Smith that has a hole in their wall. Don't tell me stuff doesn't happen to the best of us.

 

[Gun Master]

Primus Lex:

NEVER point ANY gun in a direction in which you do not wish to discharge or shoot ! *

*Special Note: Too many "unloaded" guns have killed or injured human beings!

Secundus Lex:
NEVER use "Boom" and "Opps" in the same sentence!

 

[Old Checkered Wool]

Being my very first post on THR, I can see that I am diving into a post that has some very controversial responses. I understand that everyone has their own views and are entitled to them. I look at what happened in this gun store a little different than some others do. First of all, I was from the old school train of thought where all firearms were handled with the respect due to a loaded firearm. If I couldn't perform that task, I wasn't even allowed to touch the firearm. I first had to demonstrate that I could safely handle a firearm before I was entrusted with one. ( The individual who taught me firearm safety was one of the best teachers I had ever known.) Spending a few hours each day, a couple days per week with this mentor earned me more knowledge of firearms than people 4 or even 5 times my age. I was 10 years old when I first met him and from that point on, firearm safety and terminology was ingrained in my head for the better part of the next 16 years. This man was a true mentor by every sense of the word. He was what every boy, young man, or experience shooter wished that they had been an acquaintance of. I have seen the safety no-no's of shooters young and old throughout many years. I don't blame any person for doing something they have not been taught was wrong or unsafe to do. I do however feel it is the duty of firearm owners to address the issues of unsafe firearm handling when seeing it happen. Obviously as ambassadors of the 2nd amendment, we don't want to come across all knowing, scolding or down right cantankerous to people who might indeed be just entering the world of firearms. As far as minding my business or not feeling it was the right place to address the issue, I say that situations like this are exactly the right place to address it if the message is delivered in a humble way. Here is why I think it would be my business to intervene even though it wasn't my store or I wasn't the one being swept with the muzzle of the gun that was being dry fired. 1) I wouldn't want to walk out the doors knowing the young child could be the next (victim of gun violence) (brought on by yet another law abiding citizen) at a (bonified gun dealer) YOU ALL KNOW HOW THE NEWS SPINS THESE STORIES. 2) I wouldn't want to walk out those doors knowing a woman possibly (single mother) could be shot due to negligence on behalf of all parties involved and the media would gobble up the story and sensationalizing the fact that her young children are now orphans because of the heartless gun owners in America. #3) And probably the most important...... after a story like this made breaking news, it wouldn't be long before mayors, governors, police chiefs, and king Obama brainstormed more gun grabbing legislation. After all, it wasn't the 500 deaths in Chicago that spurned hi cap regulations and assault weapons bans in Connecticut. It wasn't the unprecedented gang violence that sparked up the NY Safe act...... NO!!!!! it is examples of legislation like both these that are spearheaded by what our media refers to as GUN VIOLENCE BY LAW ABIDING CITIZENS. The bleeding heart liberals reel and cry over how many are shot by accidental discharge, how many are shot in mass executions by law abiding citizens. So the next time you see someone who doesn't know any better practicing unsafe firearm techniques, just remember..... it is the tragedies made either by accident or on purpose by the likes of those same nit-wits that will erode all of your 2nd amendment rights into dust. So to say it doesn't concern you because it is not your business .... just remember that when you go to your lgs and can only purchase 10 round magazines, or that nice ak or ar you purchased is discovered when law enforcement starts browsing through 4473 forms at your local gun store and your house is next to be raided. This type of legislation is not put in place because of the bloods and the crypts..... they are put in place by the bleeding hearts every time that someone like the two idiots in this particular gun store shoot someone by accident or when they blow a fuse and do it on purpose. Just a little food for thought if you like keeping your guns

 

[Darkhorse]

Welcome to THR, Old Checkered Wool; good thoughts!

I do have a suggestion though: paragraphs

 

[coondogger]

Captain's 1911, this seems like it was an opportune time to hand them your business card. If anyone was in need of safety instruction, it was these people.

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

Welcome to THR, Old Checkered Wool!

Hope to see you around more!

☺

 

[Old Checkered Wool]

Thank you for the warm welcome everybody!

 

[USAF_Vet]

Thankfully, the LGSs I go to have pretty decent gun sales staff. The checkout personnel might not be as knowledgeable, but they do check all cased guns on the way in and flag them as unloaded, then have a gun sales guy come to the counter to walk the gun back to the service department. It's a good system they have, and that's probably why they've been around 53 years, in the same location and now second generation family owned.

Sure, they have their bad days, but it's usually on the customer side of the counter.

I've been swept there, but only rarely. I've never had to speak up because the gun sales guys do so before I get the chance.

Gun shows, on the other hand... I pretty much avoid them all now for various reasons.

 

[FinnComm]

Heh! I had my specs on, and actually clean at the time

Maybe the wrong pair. If so, I can sympathise

Keep smiling

 

[Jeepergeo]

Wow. It sounds like a pretty crummy gun store. I'd bet the owner was not in at the time (hopefully).

And of course, all the guns in a gun store are unloaded, just like in this video!:banghead:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsecTFkxWwk

 

[burk]

Its a big deal, and its not a big deal at the same time. I've never been to a store like academy or the like where the guy behind the counter didn't check the gun to see if its loaded.

And didn't a clerk at a LGS hand a cop a loaded gun at a gun store in kentucky not long ago? First rule: ALL guns are loaded. Y'all know the second. That kind of behavior does concern me when I see it happen.

I agree 100%. While guns don't shoot people, people do, plenty of people have been shot by empty guns.