Sean Smith
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Simple poll for 10mm shoters... what is your favorite self-defense load? 
10mm shooters - favorite self-defense load?
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vanfunk
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I like the classic Winchester Silvertip in my pre-enhanced Delta Elite. Nowadays I think they're only(!) doing about 1250 fps, but I get 100% feed reliablility and pretty ugly results on watermelons and waffle irons
.
I've been meaning to try some of that high-stepping Texas Ammo stuff. What do they claim, 200 grains at 1250? Now that's cookin' with gas!
vanfunk
. I've been meaning to try some of that high-stepping Texas Ammo stuff. What do they claim, 200 grains at 1250? Now that's cookin' with gas!
vanfunk
1) 155gr ProLoad GoldDot at 1350fps
2) 175gr Winchester Silvertips at 1250fps
3) 200gr Texas-Ammo XTP if I was in the backcountry and didn't have Ol' Bessy, my trusty 629...
4) 135gr Corbon Pow'R'Ball would be great if they juiced up the velocity more than 100fps over the 40Short&Weak. I was thinking along the lines of 1500fps for that one!
2) 175gr Winchester Silvertips at 1250fps
3) 200gr Texas-Ammo XTP if I was in the backcountry and didn't have Ol' Bessy, my trusty 629...
4) 135gr Corbon Pow'R'Ball would be great if they juiced up the velocity more than 100fps over the 40Short&Weak. I was thinking along the lines of 1500fps for that one!
I went for the Silvertip, but the Hornady 155gn XTP would be a close second. For me the Silvertip is a bit more controllable than some of the others, plus it's probably the easiest 10mm SD round to find in gun stores.
What I would like to see is a 165gn load at about 1300fps using a Gold Dot or Golden Saber bullet specifically designed for 10mm velocities.
What I would like to see is a 165gn load at about 1300fps using a Gold Dot or Golden Saber bullet specifically designed for 10mm velocities.
Sean Smith
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So far Silvertip by a fair margin. Hmmm. I've tried alot of different stuff, and generally prefer the Pro Load 155gr Gold Dot load myself.
Sean:
In my 10mms I now use the Hornady 180gn XTP "full-load" (@1180fps) as more or less of a cold-weather load for the same reasons Wilson relates when he recommends the XTPs in .45acp (e.g., heavy linings, bulky clothes, thick leather, etc).
In the warmer weather I'm carrying G.A.'s 180gn Gold Dot HPs (@1150fps). I've been very impressed with G.A.'s quality control on all of the ammo I've tried, and the GDHPs have shown consistently good accuracy no matter which 10mm I was shooting.
I've laid away about a case of the Winchester 175gn STHPs. I don't have any particular issue with their accuracy, and would carry them if needed, but my guns just seem to like *other* factory loads better.
Good luck with your new 10mm 1911 project.
HTH.
In my 10mms I now use the Hornady 180gn XTP "full-load" (@1180fps) as more or less of a cold-weather load for the same reasons Wilson relates when he recommends the XTPs in .45acp (e.g., heavy linings, bulky clothes, thick leather, etc).
In the warmer weather I'm carrying G.A.'s 180gn Gold Dot HPs (@1150fps). I've been very impressed with G.A.'s quality control on all of the ammo I've tried, and the GDHPs have shown consistently good accuracy no matter which 10mm I was shooting.
I've laid away about a case of the Winchester 175gn STHPs. I don't have any particular issue with their accuracy, and would carry them if needed, but my guns just seem to like *other* factory loads better.
Good luck with your new 10mm 1911 project.
HTH.
Lancel
Member
Recently my favorite bullet became Gold Dots, so I voted for Georgia Arms 155gr Gold Dot.
However, my home defense gun is still loaded with Corbon 135 gr for a little reduced penetration.
However, my home defense gun is still loaded with Corbon 135 gr for a little reduced penetration.
"165gn load at about 1300fps using a Gold Dot..."
Nordic:
Keep an eye on Texas Ammo.
Their 10mm/165gn load uses a Sierra JHP @ 1350fps/668ft-lbs, but last summer when my FFL placed an order, T.A.'s owner said he was considering switching to the 165gn GDHP at the same fps. He thought the GD was a better bullet than the Sierra, especially at 10mm velocities, and I think he's right. But I don't know if he's made the change yet.
HTH.
Nordic:
Keep an eye on Texas Ammo.
Their 10mm/165gn load uses a Sierra JHP @ 1350fps/668ft-lbs, but last summer when my FFL placed an order, T.A.'s owner said he was considering switching to the 165gn GDHP at the same fps. He thought the GD was a better bullet than the Sierra, especially at 10mm velocities, and I think he's right. But I don't know if he's made the change yet.
HTH.
The downside to the XTP bullet is overpenetration. It is a great hunting load because of how strong the jacket design is, but it requires a lot of tissue (and a lot of velocity) to expand to its fullest potential. I've considered experimenting with injected silicone in the HP cavity to act as a forcing cone against the softer lead inside, and to encourage more rapid expansion. I haven't gotten around to it yet.
I do like my 200gr 1500fps factory Hornady loads for my 44mag though...
...can you imagine being on the south end of one of those?!?!
agtman,
I especially couldn't complain if TA started making a 165gr GD at 1350fps...
I do like my 200gr 1500fps factory Hornady loads for my 44mag though...
...can you imagine being on the south end of one of those?!?!
agtman,
I especially couldn't complain if TA started making a 165gr GD at 1350fps...
DeltaElite
Member
I like the Silvertip, but I also like the Triton 155 Quik Shok.
Agtman, what brand of bullet does Corbon use in their 165gn load? Also, do you know what the velocity "window" is for the 165gn GDHP bullet? I like the idea of a bonded bullet, but I'm concerned about it expanding too quickly since it was developed for the .40 S&W.
nvrquit
Member
165gr. CorBon Bullet...
NordicG3K,
Last time I looked at the 165gr. CorBon, the bullet being used looked a lot like the Sierra 165gr, HP's that I had in stock at that time. Sorry, I can't do that right now, as I'm fresh out of the Sierra 165gr. HP's at this time.
I've got a good question for all the 10mm'ers on this(or any other) forum. Has anyone ever tried the RBCD 77gr loading? The RBCD web site lists this load as delivering a heavy ft/lb of energy at the muzzle.
NordicG3K,
Last time I looked at the 165gr. CorBon, the bullet being used looked a lot like the Sierra 165gr, HP's that I had in stock at that time. Sorry, I can't do that right now, as I'm fresh out of the Sierra 165gr. HP's at this time.
I've got a good question for all the 10mm'ers on this(or any other) forum. Has anyone ever tried the RBCD 77gr loading? The RBCD web site lists this load as delivering a heavy ft/lb of energy at the muzzle.
Chrono results?
I've heard that the Win. Silvertips have had some of their punch taken away from their original levels. I was wondering if anyone has actually chronoed the current production Silvertips to see what it actually is putting out.
I've heard that the Win. Silvertips have had some of their punch taken away from their original levels. I was wondering if anyone has actually chronoed the current production Silvertips to see what it actually is putting out.
bpisler
Member
I carried cor-bon in my witness compact cause the muzzle blast was'nt bad,it was accurate and fairly easy to control.
denfoote
Member
Cor-Bon 165gr, because that's what my G29 "likes"!!!!!
1goodshot
Member
Silver tip
Grayrider
Member
I have been using some 165s from a company in Ill who's name escapes me at the moment. They use golden sabres, and I have been very impressed with both reliability and accuracy in my 1076. If anyone is interested I will check the manufacturer's info later and post it. They used to hit all the gunshows here and setup a big booth, but have not seen them lately.
Good info here! I was wondering what everyone else was using.
GR
Good info here! I was wondering what everyone else was using.
GR
AndABeer
Member
Dunno about favorite but Slivertips are usually in the pistol. Performance seems OK, but I think it's the pretty projectile that cinches it.
Nordic,
FWIW, David at Ammolab.com has used the ProLoad 155gr GD's (@1375fps) with "impressive" results on deer. He stated that final expanded diameter was .90" with substantial internal damage.
Seems that the lighter GD can hold up to those velocities, so I was assume that the heavier 165gr round at 1350 would fare even better due to the greater sectional density.
Nordic: I'm not sure what bullets CorBon uses. It could be some of their own design. As for the optimum velocity "window" for the 10mm/165gn GDs, 1300-1350fps sounds about right.
Stealther: If you do a Search over on GT's 10Ring, I believe there were posts from last spring from people (MCNETT, among others) who had chrono-ed various factory and handloaded 10mm ammo, including the Winchester STHPs. Seems the consensus was that there were a few batches of 10mm STHPs where it appeared they had lost some of their legendary "heat," but that more recent lots were running in the high 1200fps range, again.
I've heard nothing but positive comments about Remington's Golden Sabre bullets, many from .45 guys, IIRC. They'd probably be excellent at 10mm velocities.
As far as "overpenetration" with the XTPs, I agree it's a tough bullet, ideal for handgun hunting in the "big bore" calibers. But the issue of "overpenetrating" the "target" is all mixed up with the issues of velocity, expansion, and the probable composition of your target. One issue is how fast do you have to drive a bullet to get max expansion without it slowing down and stopping short of a vital organ or, worse, going so fast it literally detonates on impact.
Obviously, against the tough hide and sinewy muscles of, say, a wild hog, you want a deeply penetrating round. But this might also be the case during an armed encounter against individuals wearing bulky winter garmets with thick inner linings or an outer shell of reinforced leather with heavy clothing underneath. Here, you want sufficient penetration, since underpenetration can get you killed.
OTOH, if you live in a state where it's virtually summer year round and the people dress like you see at major golf events, then for that environment a more applicable choice in 10mm would be a load with bullets having rapid-expansion characteristics - and not necessarily the heaviest bullets either(200gns) but maybe the ones in the 165, 170, & 175gn range.
Interestingly, Bill Wilson takes this same approach. He advocates the use of Hornady's 200gn and 230gn XTPs in .45acp. He recommends their .45 loads as very accurate, stating that they use "the most inherently reliable feeding and expanding bullets available." (Source: Wilson Tactical Gear 2002, p.35). Specifically, Wilson says the .45/230gn XTP bullet is preferred "in the winter to increase penetration through heavy clothing."
The same reasoning applies to the 10mm XTPs, offered in 180gns @ 1180fps and 200gns @ 1050fps. If you feel the 10mm/180gn XTP is driven too fast for use against heavily-clothed humans, take a look at Hornady's 200gn load, which moves at the same velocity as the 200gn CCI/Blazers.
HTH.
Stealther: If you do a Search over on GT's 10Ring, I believe there were posts from last spring from people (MCNETT, among others) who had chrono-ed various factory and handloaded 10mm ammo, including the Winchester STHPs. Seems the consensus was that there were a few batches of 10mm STHPs where it appeared they had lost some of their legendary "heat," but that more recent lots were running in the high 1200fps range, again.
I've heard nothing but positive comments about Remington's Golden Sabre bullets, many from .45 guys, IIRC. They'd probably be excellent at 10mm velocities.
As far as "overpenetration" with the XTPs, I agree it's a tough bullet, ideal for handgun hunting in the "big bore" calibers. But the issue of "overpenetrating" the "target" is all mixed up with the issues of velocity, expansion, and the probable composition of your target. One issue is how fast do you have to drive a bullet to get max expansion without it slowing down and stopping short of a vital organ or, worse, going so fast it literally detonates on impact.
Obviously, against the tough hide and sinewy muscles of, say, a wild hog, you want a deeply penetrating round. But this might also be the case during an armed encounter against individuals wearing bulky winter garmets with thick inner linings or an outer shell of reinforced leather with heavy clothing underneath. Here, you want sufficient penetration, since underpenetration can get you killed.
OTOH, if you live in a state where it's virtually summer year round and the people dress like you see at major golf events, then for that environment a more applicable choice in 10mm would be a load with bullets having rapid-expansion characteristics - and not necessarily the heaviest bullets either(200gns) but maybe the ones in the 165, 170, & 175gn range.
Interestingly, Bill Wilson takes this same approach. He advocates the use of Hornady's 200gn and 230gn XTPs in .45acp. He recommends their .45 loads as very accurate, stating that they use "the most inherently reliable feeding and expanding bullets available." (Source: Wilson Tactical Gear 2002, p.35). Specifically, Wilson says the .45/230gn XTP bullet is preferred "in the winter to increase penetration through heavy clothing."
The same reasoning applies to the 10mm XTPs, offered in 180gns @ 1180fps and 200gns @ 1050fps. If you feel the 10mm/180gn XTP is driven too fast for use against heavily-clothed humans, take a look at Hornady's 200gn load, which moves at the same velocity as the 200gn CCI/Blazers.
HTH.
Last edited:
CZF
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Winchester SILVERTIPS, i usually buy SPEER ammo (Idaho
but like the energy of the Silvers. I try to handload my ammo
to Silvertip levels.
I've shot .44 silvers for years. But in the 10mm the ammo is just Awesome! That is what is sitting in my favorite non- CZUB gun.
10 x 10mm it's all you need, and more!
but like the energy of the Silvers. I try to handload my ammo
to Silvertip levels.
I've shot .44 silvers for years. But in the 10mm the ammo is just Awesome! That is what is sitting in my favorite non- CZUB gun.
10 x 10mm it's all you need, and more!
agtman,
I agree with you that sufficient penetration is the single most important factor in wounding ballistics after shot placement. This is then followed by reliable expansion.
The XTP is such a strong bullet design that I have no doubts that driven even at very high velocities, the bullet wouldn't fragment, but would expand and perform well. (IIRC, I have an article from Hornady that talks about the XTP design being good all the way up to 1900fps )
The only issue that would concern me is that the HP cavity design seems to clog fairly easily through heavy clothing, impeding expansion and causing overpenetration. This is the reason why I suggested a bit of research into doing a Pow'R'Ball-esque cavity job on the venerable XTP bullet.
When I am in the backcountry, though, it is the XTP all the way with no modifications.
I agree with you that sufficient penetration is the single most important factor in wounding ballistics after shot placement. This is then followed by reliable expansion.
The XTP is such a strong bullet design that I have no doubts that driven even at very high velocities, the bullet wouldn't fragment, but would expand and perform well. (IIRC, I have an article from Hornady that talks about the XTP design being good all the way up to 1900fps
)The only issue that would concern me is that the HP cavity design seems to clog fairly easily through heavy clothing, impeding expansion and causing overpenetration. This is the reason why I suggested a bit of research into doing a Pow'R'Ball-esque cavity job on the venerable XTP bullet.
When I am in the backcountry, though, it is the XTP all the way with no modifications.
Sean Smith
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Side note: a friend made some handloads using a 180gr Golden Saber driven to about 1,200 ft/sec... test medium was a small beer keg full of water. Blew it off the table, made an exit hole about the size of a quarter, and bulged the top. Totally unscientific, but we think it "worked."
Man, 10mm is great. I've got a new Delta Elite that will get in my grubby little hands as soon as the FFL-to-FFL postal dance is done.
Man, 10mm is great. I've got a new Delta Elite that will get in my grubby little hands as soon as the FFL-to-FFL postal dance is done.
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