10mm - The most versatile auto pistol cartridge in existence?

[MachIVshooter]

Pot calling the kettle black mach 1V

I own multiple firearms in both chamberings, and I enjoy load development and range time with both, so no pot and no kettle here.

So are you saying that the 10mm is a better all around/versatile round than the 357?

Nope. The rounds themselves are equal. It is the platform that gives the 10mm an edge in most instances. As I said, it can acheive the same power from a lighter, more compact platform with more than double the capacity.

Don't even start with some nonsense about accuracy, either. We both know that neither the autoloader nor the revolver is more inherently accurate than the other. My 6" 686 is an absolute tack driver, but I can produce equally good groups with my Kimber Stainless Target II 10mm or Witness Limited. Same can be said of my 586 and my 1006. Or my M65 and G20. Or the M60 and Witness Compact.

 

[intercooler]

Where do you get great velocity of 158's in a 4.20" GP100? I have numbers for the big players and it still sucks!

 

[MachIVshooter]

because if you are, remember, its not just the caliber-

Its also the platform it can be delivered by, the 357 is hands down, no doubt about it WAAAY ahead of the "niche" 10mm.

Ummm....

can you say S&W 610?

And let's not forget the Coonan .357.

Why do you have such an emotional investment in this, anyway? It's not like either round is hurting sales for the other. A few more people recognizing the utility in the 10mm is certainly not going to spell the end for your beloved .357 mag that has endured nearly 80 years.

Try being objective. Sheesh.

 

[Loosedhorse]

If it matters...

.400" bullets range from 135 grains to 230 grains.

125 gr .40 bullets are also available.

 

[357 Terms]

It is the platform that gives the 10mm an edge in most instances

Nope.

My 357 Marlin can shoot a 180grn XTP at 1600+fps, and still retain 165grn after recovery.
Show me ONE 10mm HP at that weight that can perform at that velocity!!!!



The 10mm can't come close to the versatility of the 357.

 

[357 Terms]

Try being objective. Sheesh.

Try being realistic.

 

[SatCong]

357 Terms
My 357 Marlin can shoot a 180grn XTP at 1600+fps, and still retain 165grn after recovery.
Show me ONE 10mm HP at that weight that can perform at that velocity!!!!
Boy are you reaching.

 

[MachIVshooter]

My 357 Marlin can shoot a 180grn XTP at 1600+fps, and still retain 165grn after recovery.
Show me ONE 10mm HP at that weight that can perform at that velocity!!!!

That's great, but last I checked, this is the HANDGUNS subforum.

Also, I thought we'd already covered the diameter versus weight thing. Do I need to explain it better for you?

Regardless, If I'm going to carry a rifle, it's not gonna be a wimpy .357 mag or 10mm.

But......if one wanted to, they could load 200, 220 or 230 gr. pills into their 17 shot G20 mechtec or Oly-arms K10 with 20 rounds and meet your performace requirements with a faster-firing, higher-capacity platform. Are you seeing a trend yet?

Try being realistic.

Try being an adult.

Thus far, all you've really managed to do is spew misinformation and insult people (calling them "son", telling them to "study up")

 

[357 Terms]

SatCong-...???

That is a fact!

Study up on 357 carbine velocities, and bullet performance.

It is no secret.

 

[357 Terms]

That's great, but last I checked, this is the HANDGUNS subforum

We are talking about the versatility of a particular round!

If you want to limit the calibers to certain barrel lengths than your argument is, and excuse the pun, well...SHOT!

 

[berettashotgun]

If a plastic Glock can take it, a metal gun can too, granted it's not a turd.
Hikester that's downright funny.
Being the proud owner of a 1006 that I really enjoy shooting, the 10mm is here to stay (at my house).

I'd LOVE to get a beretta carbine chambered in a 10mm - IF I could find some decent price on loaded ammo BLAZER maybe?:banghead:

I reload a few """EXOTIC""" cartridges ( 6ppc 262nk, 7saum, 22-250imp 247nk, 351 wsl w/ homemade brass) and would just like to actually get to "plink" with a 10mm pistol, but the ammo is holding me back.

Waiting for starline to drop 1k brass( to buy ) for 2 months wasn't fun as far as shooting goes.

 

[357 Terms]

Regardless, If I'm going to carry a rifle, it's not gonna be a wimpy .357 mag or 10mm.

For many of us ( myself in Indiana included ) we are limited to straight wall pistol rounds.

The 357 is legal, a rifle round is not!

 

[357 Terms]

Thus far, all you've really managed to do is spew misinformation

Please tell me ONE piece of misinformation I have posted!

 

[MachIVshooter]

If you want to limit the calibers to certain barrel lengths than your argument is, and excuse the pun, well...SHOT!

Did you even read the post?

I said:

if one wanted to, they could load 200, 220 or 230 gr. pills into their 17 shot G20 mechtec or Oly-arms K10 with 20 rounds and meet your performace requirements with a faster-firing, higher-capacity platform.

For many of us ( myself in Indiana included ) we are limited to straight wall pistol rounds.

The 357 is legal, a rifle round is not!

Then why not use a .44 mag or .454 casull and have some real power and bullets with real sectional density?

 

[357 Terms]

re-read post 110 mach1V

The point of this thread is to discuss the versatility of the 10mm.

It comes nowhere near being as versatile as the 357.

The platforms are a HUGE consideration!

 

[357 Terms]

Then why not use a .44 mag or .454 casull and have some real power and bullets with real sectional density?

Why?

My Marlin in 357 has been very effective, which proves my point better than anything!

 

[357 Terms]

Please tell me ONE piece of misinformation I have posted!

Oh, I will ask again.

Give me ONE piece of misinformation I have posted!

 

[SatCong]

READ! Handguns: Autoloaders Now that's a fact! Study up on 357 carbine velocities, and bullet performance.

It is no secret.:banghead:Two old for this. Oh well, I well top your 357 carbine to 44 mag-carbine ?

 

[357 Terms]

Again-

We are talking about the versatility of HANDGUN rounds!

If I can shoot a pistol round from a carbine and it is EFFECTIVE, that means it is more versatile!

Not to mention the MANY different barrel lenghts, platforms the 357 is available compared to the 10mm!

It really isn't an argument; at least not a rational one.

 

[intercooler]

Geesh where is the off button. This as stated is about the 10mm. How did the .357 get injected into the 10mm thread? Talking about off-topic!

 

[357 Terms]

:

This as stated is about the 10mm. How did the .357 get injected into the 10mm thread?

Good point....sorry

 

[MachIVshooter]

Give me ONE piece of misinformation I have posted!

Your entire premise.

Why you choose to ignore the fact that BOTH cartridges are chambered in revolvers, autoloading pistols and carbines, and that BOTH cartridges will produce identical ballistics from the same barrel length/platform is beyond me.

Even more confounding is why, as I mentioned earlier, you're so emotionally invested in the matter. They're friggin' CARTRIDGES, and just two out of HUNDREDS. You act like someone telling you the truth about the two rounds just killed your dog and slapped your sister. I don't get it.......

I'm done debating you until you can replace the strange emotion-driven argument with a rational one.

 

[R.W.Dale]

As barrel length increases so does 357's advantage over 10mm. Saying performance will be identical because pressure and case capacity are the same is a gross oversimplification and ignores the very important factor of bore case ratio. 10mm uses faster propellants at lesser volumes than 357 mag can because due to the tens higher expansion ratio pressure drops much faster as the bullet travels (same capacity bigger bore) this is why the 10mm in a carbine like its other autoloder cousins sees very little velocity gain in longer barrels.

Don't believe me see BBTI
http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/10mm.html

357 from the same 18" barrel will launch 158 g bullets almost 500 fps faster than 10mm can 155's of much inferior SD

IN THE REAL WORLD with similar case capacities, identical bullets and the same pressure rating 10mm and 40s&w performance will be similar (within 150 fps). If its NOT similar what's changed is pressure!

 

[browningguy]

in that "most" shooters probably are weekend warrior-types - better described as casual shooters, not professional pistoleros - for whom a 9mm or .45 is fine. 
For the sort of "hobby shooting" they do, they can shoot guns chambered in these calibers reasonably well. I see this at our local range all the time ...

That's about the most pathetic thing I have ever read, even on the internet.

Speed and accuracy (or lack thereof) wins or loses gun fights. For all of you youngsters out there reading this please note it is just bad advice, something to try to get the testosterone flowing. Why not just go to a .50 Desert Eagle, "professional pistoleros" only want to shoot the biggest, right?

How many professional "pistoleros" can you name that shoot the full power 10mm as their carry gun of choice. I know a few professionals, both police and military, (although obviously they don't fit the above definition), and not a single one of these vaunted "professionals" carries a 10mm. I've also been to a few regional and national IDPA and IPSC matches where the best shooters in the world are competing and have never seen anyone shooting a 10mm. And the reason why, they aren't faster or more accurate.

 

[Loosedhorse]

Again, if it matters...

The subforum here is Handguns: Autoloaders. While I can name two autoloaders for the .357, its not an autoloader cartridge, or a carbine cartridge. While I can name a revolver and a derringer that fires 10mm, it's an autoloader cartridge.

JMHO

where the best shooters in the world are competing and have never seen anyone shooting a 10mm.

Well, maybe if the targets shot back, and the competitors were limited to handguns, more would.