10mm vs .45 ACP in a Glock

[BlackCat]

Can anyone point me in the direction of some ballistics tables for these two calibers? I thought I was settled on the .45, but I keep seeing everyone talk up the 10mm as being such a powerful round. I want a new pistol mainly for fun, and for taking down the occasional charging grizzly bear, and for use against terrorists. A .38 Special wheelgun really doesn't cut it for me anymore. I'll probably go for a full-sized pistol. Thanks alot!

 

[antsi]

I shoot both .45 and 10mm, and like them both. As far as effective defense on humans, either one ought to be plenty effective. Speaking as a medical person, I find the "large hole" theory of ballistic effectiveness more convincing than the "kinetic energy" theory - and the .45 does create a larger hole than 10mm. Also I find .45 somewhat more manageable to shoot. Despite all that, I don't carry either caliber. For a carry gun, I think there are factors of the gun itself that are more important than caliber (unless we're talking ridiculous extremes like .22LR or .50BMG). I'd say look at both, try several guns in both calibers, and go for the one you shoot the best.

PS: I don't know if you are serious about the bears or not, but neither of these would really be my choice against a large dangerous animal.

 

[MCNETT]

I shoot them both, but the 10mm is what I carry in the city or the woods.
-Mike

PS - if you go to www.10mmtalk.com , then go to the DoubleTap forum you will find all of the external ballistic tables for 11 different loads in the top thread.

 

[BlackCat]

Thanks guys! I was discussing this with a friend of mine tonight and he said "how about a .40?", well I guess I don't know about that either. Then there's of course the .357 SIG. I will have to see if I can find some guns to shoot. I've shot a G21 (.45) and it worked well for me. I guess if I don't feel I made the right choice I can get another, but I'm buying a NIB, I'd like to get what's right for me the first time. I'm really only familiar with the .380, 9mm Para., .38, .357, and .44. I've spent a bit of time on the good side of a newish P-Series Ruger .45ACP also.

10mm > .357 mag.; .357 SIG; .40 S&W

As far as grizzlys, yes I was serious, to an extent. I know it's not the ideal weapon, but it's a good last resort, which is what I intend a sidearm to be anyway.. Something with enough punch to make myself feel better. There's always the chance of an overly aggressive black bear or mountain lion too.

 

[jc2]

10mm > .357 mag.; .357 SIG; .40 S&W

Minor clarification (to keep the perspective correct):

10mm < .41 Magnum; .44 Magnum
10mm = .357 Magnum
10mm > 357 SIG; .40 S&W (once the range exceeds 20-25 yards)

 

[ID_shooting]

jc2, I disagree.

10mm is = or slightly < .41 mag +/- a few ft lbs.

From Speer # 13:

mid level for .41 mag w/ 200 gr pill @ 1200 fps = 498 ft lbs @ 50 yds

mid level for 10mm w/ 200 gr pill @ 1100 fps = 474 ft lbs @ 50 yds

mid level for .357 mag w/ 158 gr pill @ 1100 fps = 365 ft lbs @ 50 yds

Anyway, back to the original post. I choose 10mm over .45 ACP, but my cohort choose .45 ACP over 10mm. I say you are fine iether way.

 

[BlackCat]

Thanks, that's definately helpful. I guess it will come down to magazine capacity, ammunition prices (if there's a significant difference), and availabilty of high capacity magazines. That 33rd mag. for a 9x19 is tempting, but I can settle for less, if less is more. Thanks again!

 

[jc2]

ID_shooting -

When you compare the top factory loads (e. g., Double Tap for the 10mm and Buffalo Bore for the .357 Magnum), you will see the .41 Magnum is considerably "hotter" than the 10mm and the .357 Magnum is just slightly "hotter" than the 10mm (but not enough to make a difference). The figures you are quoting from the Speer Manual are very, very conservative (e. g., Buffalo Bore loads the 158-grain Gold Dots 1485 fps/763 fpe in a four-inch .357 Magnum).--certainly even a long way from even "mid-level"

So, if you look at top-end loads, it is very definitely:

10mm < .41 Magnum (by a factor of almost 50%)
10mm = .357 Magnum

Besides, who in their right mind compares "mid-level" (at best, an ill-defined concept) to determine anything. Why not compare "low-level" loads instead?

 

[Johnny C. Kitchens]

How Close...

He was showing performance for 50 yards, not mid performance loads. If you had to shoot a Grizzly, which would you be worried about. Muzzle energy, or energy on target. There is another consideration with the Grizzly. .41 Magnum 6 shots vs 10mm Auto in Glock 16 rounds. Thats a bunch more energy to have on tap...

 

[hnm201]

10mm for bear defense? That ain't a job for a hand gun. More appropriate portable bear medicine can be found here: http://www.wildwestguns.com/Bushwacker/body_bushwacker.html

 

[ID_shooting]

Alright jc2,

I do not wish to trump this guys thread. Please start another thread and post the compareable #s side-by-side.

 

[jc2]

No need to do that, ID shooting. The data readily available elsewhere if anyone wants to look. The only reason I even posted them in the first place is Blackcat (the guy with the questions, remember) had them ranked incorrectly.

A good source for hot factory 10mm ballistics is Double Tap--all his ballistics are out of Glock 20. A good source for hot factory .357 Magnum (and .41 Magnum) ballistics is Buffalo bore--he has .357 Magnum ballistics from a four-inch L-frame (FTR is .41 Magnum ballistics are from a six-inch barrel).

The bottom line, when comparing top-end factory loads, the .357 Magnum and 10mm are ballistic twins. If one is adventurous, I say you could push .357 Magnum loads a lot hotter out of a GP100/686/Redhawk than 10mm than out of a Glock 20.

 

[ID_shooting]

Im just saying, you can believe them if you want. But in the real world, my own loads compared to the books, thier numbers don't jive.

 

[Lennyjoe]

If its your first pistol and you have more than one use in mind for it (CCW, outdoors ect.) then I'd go with the 10MM.

Mind you, the 10MM isnt exactly cheap to practice with. Ammo can be found but you have to shop for it. If you reload your even better off. .45 ammo is pretty cheap so you can practice more with it more often without breaking the bank.

Only reason I dont CCW with a 10MM is cause the only one I own for now is a full size S&W 1006. Bit large for CCW but I always have it on my belt when Im out in the bush.

 

[dairycreek]

The 10mm is a fine "combo" gun!

Not going to argue makes of guns here. But the 10mm round is a great combo round. It can be carried as a CCW or as a pretty effective "woods gun". Good ballistic stats and a really fun shooter. Downside is the ammo which is not always easy to find but is always expensive. Good shooting

 

[Marcus]

BC,.45 ACP is a fine round but the 10mm has a wider range of loads,can be much more powerfull and it holds more rounds. What`s more if you MUST use a service type auto against a bear (which is not a good idea to say the least IMO but sometimes you gotta do what ya gotta do...) DT 220gr. or 200gr. full house loads have much better sectional density and penetration than any .45ACP load. Shop around even a little bit and you`ll find that 10mm practice ammo is the same price as .45ACP and so is the premium stuff. Buy a cheap drop in barrel and you can shoot .40S&W with cheap bulk ammo too,with no other changes. Neat huh? Marcus

 

[BlackCat]

You guys are full of great information, but that hasn't seemed to make the decision much easier! It will probably end up being a .45 though. I plan on getting the full size version, and yes, I plan to use it as a CCW (though not as it's primary use). Not real concealable I realize, but it will work.

10mm for bear defense? That ain't a job for a hand gun. More appropriate portable bear medicine can be found here: http://www.wildwestguns.com/Bushwac...bushwacker.html

That's a really cool unit, never seen anything like that! I realize it's not a pistols' job to handle bear duties, but after emptying my rifle I need a better back up than trying to reload a damned bolt action with a bear charging me!

If its your first pistol and you have more than one use in mind for it (CCW, outdoors ect.) then I'd go with the 10MM.

I have a S&W Model 10 .38 w/ a 4" bbl, this would be my first auto pistol though.

Thanks guys!

 

[Ivy Mike]

My answer to this would be go with the Glock 20.

Bar-Sto makes 6" barrels which will only help the 10mm load against a bear. You can also swap in your factory barrel when its time to take the Glock into the city.

16 rounds of 10mm is a nice way to feel safe. At the very least, you'll give the bear something to think about.

 

[Ultima-Ratio]

Ah The Old Caliber War Thing Eh?

Just for grins you could research the .45 Super or .451 Detonics or .450SMC or .460 Rowland which btw can all trump the 10mm!

 

[BlackCat]

Well I did some research and the .45ACP isn't legal for deer here, but the 10mm is. That 'bout settles it. I can't wait to put a laser beam on bambi's chest and squeeze away. Glock 20 it is, unless I can be talked into a sub-compact version.

 

[MCNETT]

Great! You'll love it! The 10mm makes an excellent deer weapon as long as you put it in the boiler room.
-Mike

 

[PO2Hammer]

Black Cat, see the thread on Glock 20 query.
Also if you are anywhere near SE Minn., I'll let you give my 20 a tryout. P.M. or E-mail me.

 

[10mm]

10mm Super high capicity mags

You may not be aware of this Black Cat (you mentioned the 33rd 9mm mags), but they now make super high cap mags for the .40, 10mm, & .45acp now. The 10mm is a 28rd (+2). Made by Scherer. I dont have one yet but I've only heard good things....dead ringer for a glock factory mag. The 10mm works in both the G20 & G29 though it would be a little hard to conceal. Check it out they average $75 on internet gun sites. Also, though the G29 is sometimes labelled a subcompact, it is more similar to a compact G19 than a sub compact G26 in size. Just add a finger grip extension and they are pretty much the same size. Its bigger than the baby glocks. Thought you might be interested.

Here is the info on the G29 10mm:
http://www.glockfaq.com/guide.htm#g29

Compare to the G19 Compact 9mm:
http://www.glockfaq.com/guide.htm#g19

Now compare to the subcompact G26:
http://www.glockfaq.com/guide.htm#g26

My vote 10mm! .45ACP will always be a legend of history, but the 10mm is writing the future! Think of it as a magnum .40 if you don't know how to place it in the scale. Also the Glocks accept the recoil much better than some of the other 10mm despite the light weight in my opinion.

Didnt notice this thread was so old...hope people are still talking about the 10mm

 

[BlackCat]

Welcome 10mm! I decided on the Glock 20. I will probably get one of those mags in the future, that would be more than a little cool. I'll happily take 28rds of 10mm over 33rds of 9mm!

 

[1966]

I like the .45 over the 10mm.