Mike1234567
member
*deleted* due to a site mess-up resulting in a double post.
When did that happen? I thought we were still arguing this point.I won, he lost?
481...
I never wrote "metrics = stopping power". Please stop putting words in my mouth so you can TRY to discredit me. Again, we await your "metrics" to support YOUR argument. You want us off our byootox's? Then get off yours.
When did that happen? I thought we were still arguing this point.
Because the opinion of an acknowledged expert, Cooper, outweighs your opinion.How can you state that there is such a thing as "stopping power" where your only "proof" such as it is, is nothing more than the opinion of another?
^^^ Who's "back-peddling" here? I openly admitted to being ignorant and needing research to support my argument, LOL!!
I wrote that you need to support your claims before I need to support my right to refute them, LOL!!
ATLDave wrote:
"stopping power" = "most effective"
BINGO!!!
I try to see all angles of an equation before taking sides and, even then, I doubt my decision.
Because the opinion of an acknowledged expert, Cooper, outweighs your opinion.
Now, of course, if you have proof that there is no such thing as stopping power--which I've already asked you for--that's different. But you don't. So we're left with only your opinion on that.
I'll take Cooper's opinion over yours. Perhaps others will, too.
Geez, Mike..."toasty" posting? We gonna have to hook up a breathalyzer to your 'puter or what?481... I'm a bit too inebriated tonight to reply with any coherency but I'll try to do so with at least some reasoning tomorrow.
Explain to us how you are qualified to disqualify Cooper as an expert? We know Cooper's credentials...Cooper is hardly qualified...
Even if the .45 ACP bullet doesn't expand it makes bigger holes and doesn't have to rely on expansion.45 acp, bullets need not expand. http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=112824
Which caliber does more damage to the human body?Yeah, well, when a guy asks which is more effective (avoiding the term "stopping power like the plague), I just think about hunting. I'm a hunter. I've killed game with handguns, i've shot LOTS of hogs in my trap with all manor of calibers, shoot the big ones, often, through the shoulder just to see. Ya know, even .38 "knocks 'em down". Oh, they kick around for a bit before expiring, but hey, it ain't like it didn't hurt, right? If that hog had a gun, he'd have a hard time placing a shot with it after a 158 JHP ripped his shoulder/chest cavity.
Anyway, for hunting, I do NOT use my .45ACP, not enough. the 10 is as much as my .357 magnum which is one I've taken game with to 50 yards. AND, the 10 shoots a bigger bullet than the .357. SO, I'm thinkin' which is more effective, 10 or .45ACP? Hell, I KNOW that answer....as a hunter, I know which ballistically is more effective. I've shot enough hogs with .357 and .45 to know, Jeff Cooper not-withstanding. No, those animals weren't shooting back, don't even go there. And, no, that doesn't take into account a quick double tap, but then, one shot one kill is the rule in hunting, one well placed shot. And, I ain't particularly recoil shy.
So, you guys go on and argue the point. Oh, wait, the point is now, "there's no such thing as stopping power because JC said so". Well, I ain't going to waste breath, er, well, bandwidth on THAT one.
Some of you guys need to get less theoretical and go kill something.
I'm no expert by any means just a lover of fire arms and shooting sports. The most recoil I've ever felt is when me and a buddy rented a s&w 500 magnum at the range. So should I cc that to be sure that the target feels when they're struck? I own 9's, 40's and 45's, None of them have any major felt recoil. I guess my pf9 recoils hader than anything but its a small 9mm. I've been shot with a paint ball to the neck once in a game and it hurt like crap. I always figured getting hit with a bullet would hurt like the dickens. But if all the intended target feels is the equivelant of my recoil then a 230lb man like myself should be able to run through a hail of bullets to reach the intended victim, and me and my wife should just leave our 9mm's at home?The "power" that the target feels when you shoot it is equal to the force you feel in the recoil of the firearm, plus the adjustments for the energy used in cycling the action, and lowering the bore axis so that the energy goes directly into your hands, rather than generating upward force.