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12GA Rifle From HELL--

Discussion in 'Shotguns' started by hubel458, Jan 23, 2006.

  1. hubel458

    hubel458 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2003
    Messages:
    677
    Location:
    Brinton,Mich.
    We have a winner it seems. The 12ga sabots using 58cal slugs.

    sabotpile.jpg

    The sample 12ga sabots got here earlier this week. And we got a bunch
    of testing already for opening and sealing, and some accuracy testing .440gr
    Minie bullet, measuring .575"; with OD of sabot with slug in it of .737" It is
    perfect. Going moderate 1800. Petals opened perfect and evenly and they all
    stayed on perfect. No petals twisted or torn. Tested in 3" case with slower
    powder loads. 80gr of 4759 and 50gr Alliant Steel. Fiocchi case.
    Savage 210 rifled barrel, 1 to 35 twist. Cases with slower powders expanded
    only a little, and those cases are soft ones.
    We have big bunch of the sabots here now.


    opensabots.jpg

    All petals were opened at about 30 deg to the base when picked up.
    With ither powder the bases have no damage, or burn throughs or melting.
    Took rifling perfect, so skidding on the rifling. Most of the rifling grip is on the
    bottom half of sabot, which is why these and Accutips are best as the bottom
    is full size instead of dropping back in size, compared to the top, like many
    other sabots. Rifling in the barrel still clean..

    sabotrif.jpg

    The Minies are hollow based and the slug edges did not cut into the inside of the
    sabot bases,just a slight impression. We have got good base thickness.
    Good Accuracy - In the cold and very windy day, hit milk jugs at 30 yds.
    Here is picture inside sabot showing just a slight indent. No need of cards under
    slugs, and if you did, the the slugs would set up in sabot and not have the
    curve of the slug behind the inside circular rib for best fit...

    You got to use right powders. With right slower powders( not fast shotgun),
    that start easier and used in larger amounts, you won't tear up the sabots.
    It is false economy to use all fast shotgun powders,trying to get twice as many
    shots per pound... and tear up sabots, expand cases too much, get poor groups,
    miss that deer or whatever. For most of you in 3" cases Alliant Steel is best.

    Interested in sabots -- gunowner at journey.com Ph- 1-989-644-5228
    THE undersize blue ones sold elsewhere for 34 bucks a hundred plus postage.
    Ours are 33 bucks per 100 postage included, or $20 for 50 postage included,
    with a bonus WE WILL send along 10 slugs with 100 order, 5 with 50 order.
    to show you what to get and to test with. Slugs can be 440gr or 500gr..Ed

    sabotdent.jpg
     
  2. hubel458

    hubel458 Member

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    677
    Location:
    Brinton,Mich.
    Here is picture of a bunch of the sabots with different slugs and bullets.
    Back Row- Two roundball load, balls 285gr each-- pointed long 700 gr -- a blunt
    solid 700gr-- tungsten slug 1000gr --- jacketed bullet -- 600gr.
    2nd row-611 Lyman 530gr Minie- 500gr flat base- Lee 500gr hard--Lee 500gr soft
    1st Row- Lyman 440gr old style minie-- Lyman 510 gr new style-- 440gr from Dixie
    Gunworks-- 400gr Lee target style. I like 440gr old style and 440 gr Dixie. For sale
    on Gunbroker is all sizes and weights.. Or cast your own. Lots of moulds around.
    Lee moulds only 20 bucks. Best diameters to use are .574 " to .577" Minies.
    If you have ones bigger and they are not hardened you can roll them betweem two
    hard surfaces and they will get little smaller. I have some that are .585" 440gr
    and work in my 585HE and they can be rolled smaller.

    topsabot.jpg

    Here are sabots with variety of seals/wads, and the shortest one in picture with
    white felt wad just fits in 3" case with 80gr 4759, and still leaves room to roll crimp.
    I compress it in hard. Now only faster powder than 4759 I'd use is Alliant Steel in
    smaller amounts, 50gr Steel, in 3", and thicker wads and cushions like shown.
    To roll crimp over the top edge of sabot we had .220" of case before crimping.
    You only have to crimp top edge of sabot real good.


    sealsabot.jpg

    After crimping the slugs are tight and don't move around. The circular rib inside the
    sabot holds slugs tight back into the base. Speeds over 2000 fps
    will be gotten using 3.5" plastic cases, with our slower powder loads. .
    More testing for accuracy yesterday, a warmer, calmer day, with steel sights.
    Hit. paper plate at 50 yds.

    As said above, best to use right powders. Right slower powders( not fast shotgun),
    that get to peak pressure slower, thus can use larger amounts, can get to higher
    velocities, and you won't tear up the sabots and won't expand cases as much.

    For most of you in 2.75" and 3" cases Alliant Steel is best.
    FOR 440GR SLUGS IN SABOT---For 2.75" start at 40gr and go up to about 50.
    For 3" start at 45gr go up to about 55. I like 3.5" best as you can load much easier
    for speed, still have more cushion wads. Start with 50gr Steel, go up to about 62.
    Case brands act different, but using the slower powders minimizes the differences
    and keeps us away from surprizing pressure problems.

    In 3" plastic,most 4759 I can get in and still have 1/4"cushion is 80gr.... In the 3.5"
    I can get in 105 gr with this sabot and get over 2000 fps, In these loads if using
    480-500gr cut back 3 gr. These 58cal slugs can be cast or they are at Dixie Gunworks
    and 4 guys on Gunbroker got them. Get ones .574" to .577"


    Interested in sabots--- gunowner at journey.com Ph- 1-989-644-5228
    THE undersize blue ones sold elsewhere for 34 bucks a hundred plus postage.
    Ours are 33 bucks per 100 postage included.
    Or $20 for 50 postage included..
    .Or 150 for $45 postage included----- ALL with a bonus
    WE WILL send along 10 slugs with 100 order, 5 with 50 order. 15 with 150 order.
    to show you what to get and to test with. Slugs can be 440gr or 500gr......Ed
     
  3. hubel458

    hubel458 Member

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    677
    Location:
    Brinton,Mich.
    Here is picture of 45-50yd target, used a scoped NEF Ultra, the sabot load of a 440gr
    58cal slug in it at 1800... Measures 2.5" on outside for 3 shots.

    sabottarget.jpg

    Here is pic of almost 2100 of them. More coming. Time to
    get them and get loads working.

    sabtable.jpg

    A little levity in this process.Ed

    bearpic.jpg
     
  4. hubel458

    hubel458 Member

    Joined:
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    677
    Location:
    Brinton,Mich.
    Some more info about our sabots and various slug weights......
    First and most important is our sabots fitting real tight like the Accutip
    Sabots, they will not get the same speed at the same pressures as
    the undersize grey and blue ones, But they do leave the barrel
    headed straighter and without damage, even with hollowbase 58cal
    slugs in them as the pics above show.No cards under slugs in sabot,
    But with good powder seals and with Alliant Steel, and good 1/4" minimum
    cushion wads.

    The 440gr Minie slug of .575" in the 3" cases is the one I used as a
    base loading, to work each way by weight to find what loads of
    Alliant Steel work and extract in my NEF. Using 3" soft base cases.
    Here is pic of before/after of Fiocchi cases, on right unfired and left
    fired, 55gr Steel with 440 gr slug.

    expansion.jpg

    For 440gr max of 55gr Steel
    For 400gr max of 57gr Steel
    For 360gr max of 59gr Steel

    For 490gr max of 52gr Steel.
    For 510gr max of 49gr Steel
    For 540gr max of 47gr Steel.

    I tested all these weights for extraction. It is real nice to reach into a
    bucket, grap a sabot that fits right, and go to loading and shooting.
    Many of you need to get in on the fun.
    Here is picture of Fiocchi with sabot, roll crimped. The top of sabot is
    perfect for roll crimping...It is setting under crimp tool in drill press.

    sabloadcrimp.jpg

    Earler I showed the 585HE Falling block with pistol grip and the light
    barrel. Here it is with Knoxx Compstock buttstock. We added 2 extra
    springs inside for relatively hard recoiling gun, as stock originally made
    for a REM 870 Pump. Works great and looks nice; will putting one on
    the Magtech 585HE singleshot break action and got one in rifle stock
    for Ruger 77 in 585HE.

    fbwknoxx.jpg

    And many guys want wildcats with shoulders, with big neck down, so
    for those who want ultimate blaster, here is the 700HSM. Shown next
    to Gibbs 650gr ball powder..1000gr at 3800...How about that.
    Will be one of only 2 guns I plan on being over 30 lbs, other is 2bore..
    Whoppee.....Ed

    700hsm2.jpg
     
  5. hubel458

    hubel458 Member

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    677
    Location:
    Brinton,Mich.
    950 sabots of the 10,000 gone in 10 days. Time to get them.

    AND TEST THEM and let us know how they do. It would be

    great if they are as good as the good factory sabots,

    and we get them tested and figured out before next deer

    and hog seasons.

    Two ways it could work out---A Little humor--

    1) If they are good they will be Hubel Sabots- 2) if bad, Damn Hubel Sabots--

    I have set it up so they can be paid through PayPal if you want..
    100 $33--150 $45-- 200 $57-- Every extra 50 $12.
    Contact info above.Ed

    PS- I make nothing on these I have 2500 in them the last
    year or so and I'll get 31-3300 and with postage, paypal
    fees,etc of 6-800 we are about even. I just want
    to get a good sabot out there.
     
  6. hubel458

    hubel458 Member

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    Location:
    Brinton,Mich.
    After this weekend, 12ga sabots are going to be supplied
    to reloaders by someone else.... IE; By Whoever buys my
    stash of the 8100 of them left...Ed
     
  7. hubel458

    hubel458 Member

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    677
    Location:
    Brinton,Mich.
    An explanation of what is happening with the sabots--
    I only wanted to develope a good sabot, sell enough to get money I spent back,
    for making them, and let other people/companies, etc, sell them. The money
    I have in them is needed right now for my 585HE case order.
    My resources just depleted fast this winter due to super major family health problems.
    And the sabot research, setup, production, process
    took 8 months or more longer than I had planned, so I had no chance
    to get money back I put into it on small sales in time to
    help me out this winter.. The mfg can make more by the hundreds
    of thousands. So whoever takes over selling can always get them.
    I am keeping big bunch here and I will keep
    on testing and experimenting with them..Ed
     
  8. hubel458

    hubel458 Member

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    677
    Location:
    Brinton,Mich.
    We're getting low on the slugs to send with the sabots,
    and no one has picked up selling the rest yet, so we will
    try selling them a couple weeks longer. So to get these
    moving out and getting tested and we pay our bills,we will
    be having sale on just the sabots, in larger amounts only.
    We will send one each of 440gr and 500gr slug so
    the guys can see what we have found that works.
    Because of the shipping costs and boxes that 2,3, or 4 bags
    of sabots fit in, that we can afford to pay postage on,
    we will sell these in 200, 300, and 400 size orders..
    So, 200 sabots $47 Shipping included,
    300 sabots $65 Shipping included...400 for $83 shipping incl.
    Now 200 of the other brand of undersize ones cost $68
    plus shipping. There was dozens of guys the last few
    years all over the internet that bought undersize junk,
    that wanted good sabots and complained that the ones
    they bought elsewhere didn't work...... I haven't heard
    from most of them, So guys please get around quick
    and help us out here. MO, Check, Paypal..Ed
     
  9. hubel458

    hubel458 Member

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    Location:
    Brinton,Mich.
    The sabots work in brass cases .First is sabot in a Magtech brass case,
    next to 3" plastic.. In shorter brass it would hold about as much powder
    as in longer plastic if loaded like in the picture..
    Sabots are about .734-735" with slugs in them, and
    the Magtech brass with its thin sides still is slightly small OD at the
    top compared to plastic, with sabot wedged in.

    sabmagtech.jpg

    Next is sabot in RMC case, and sides are full thickness like plastic cases
    at the mouth, so don't expand case to hold sabot. We have RMC make case
    mouth ID to fit sabot. Sabot being little over fits barrels tight and rifling
    impresses into plastic well and gets best spin, and being tight it leaves barrel
    straight, with petals opening evenly. Brass case mouths are tight enough that
    we push sabot in with a press.Saves trying to crimp heavy RMC case.

    sabotrmc.jpg

    Here is picture of a barrel and barrel on a gun from 20 gauge singlshots that
    will have the heavy 20ga rifled barrel in picture, mono-blocked into them.

    aaron20.jpg
     
  10. hubel458

    hubel458 Member

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    677
    Location:
    Brinton,Mich.
    We've sold 2800 sabots in 5 weeks, 7200 left here.

    They can make more. Hooray it's picking up a little.

    Get them while they are hot, so to speak.



    These are 12ga sabots taking 58cal slugs.

    These slugs are real devastating. Use the ones with

    diameters of .574" to .577". Nothing bigger

    diameter is needed.You can cast your own or the

    58cal slugs for these can be got at Dixie Gunworks.

    Item Numbers-- BA 1103 -- BU 0901

    about $50 per 100.



    There are 3 guys selling the right diameter ones on Gunbroker.

    Their handles on there are --

    Blue Falcon --who has 3 or 4 that will fit.

    Maplewoodbullets-- who has 2 weights in old style Lyman in one listing.

    peoprepofkal-- has old style lyman in 490g---

    All of these are 40-50 cents each.Ed
     
  11. hubel458

    hubel458 Member

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    Messages:
    677
    Location:
    Brinton,Mich.
    What causes sabot problems/inaccuracy. Some pictures will help.
    First 2 shows a skinny post that pushes on a cushion or sabot
    bottom and it can bend or deflect which if that way when exiting
    barrel can start sabot or slug crooked.

    28badwad.jpg

    16badwad.jpg

    And more important item that causes a lack of accuracy is if the
    base of discarding sabot tapers or steps down so that it isn't real
    tight as it leaves bore, which can allow it to be cocked.
    On the left is our sabot which has base right and other brand
    which tapers a bit. Easy to see.

    badtaper.jpg

    Next is a ball and slug load in 2 of our sabots. A 285gr .575" ball
    flattened, put in the bottom and a 400gr Minie above, two different
    styles of Minies.

    ballslugsab.jpg

    Here is couple 16ga discarding sabots I made from the undersize
    12ga grey ones. Didn't have to take off much. Much better use
    for them. I made them after Paul in Alaska asked about
    where to find 16ga ones, to see what they looked like.
    They still use 50cal slug.. Ed

    16gasabots.jpg
     
  12. hubel458

    hubel458 Member

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    677
    Location:
    Brinton,Mich.
    Here is 16ga discarding sabots made from grey ones with other 16ga slugs..
    20 ga factory sabot on left for comparison.

    16sabotother.jpg

    Here is picture of 12ga wads showing good and bad support.

    12goodbad.jpg

    Here are 2 sabots on the right with super heavy tungsten slug. It is 1100gr,
    but tungsten costs ten times what lead costs.

    sabextreme.jpg

    Here is a sabot home defense or close range defense load setup using our
    sabot. It has five flattened 45cal balls in it. Flattened into a fat disc weighing
    145gr each. You'd star crimp it or use card over them and roll crimp. Like
    having a bunch of supersize flat buckshot, only super big.

    sabdefense.jpg

    Here is comparison picture of the 58cal slugs used in our 12ga sabots, with the
    puny slugs used in many other sabots. And we've moved 5500 of the sabots.
    Deer season is coming fast. Maybe time to get loads tested/sighted in is now.

    puny.jpg

    Some more figures. The 24hr Campfire forums is first one, with our 12ga FH thread,
    to get over half million thread views.The HighRoad second.
    TheFiringLine third. AR fourth...Ed
     
  13. hubel458

    hubel458 Member

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    677
    Location:
    Brinton,Mich.
    We have moved few thousand sabots.More here.
    Here is picture of an 8ga wad with tube slug in it, we made.

    8gatube.jpg

    A pallet load of our 585HE cases has arrived in the US
    and will be here in little while. And should be another pallet
    of them this fall. Here is picture of our 585
    with the solid turned CEB bullets in them.

    585ceb.jpg

    Here is some helpful, simple math to help figure out the kinetic energy
    of your loads, just by having bullet weight and speed.
    Just put these multipliers which are used for each speed, on a list
    and multiply by the bullet weight in grains. Fast and easy.Ed

    Speed..Multiplier
    1500------5
    1600------5.7
    1700------6.42
    1800------7.2
    1900------8
    2000------9
    2100------9.8
    2200------10.75
    2300------11.75
    2400------12.8
    2500------13.9
    2600------15
    2700------16.2
    2800------17.4
    2900------18.7
    3000------20
     
  14. hubel458

    hubel458 Member

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    677
    Location:
    Brinton,Mich.
    Here is picture of current 58cal slug options that
    you can get molds for from Lyman,
    Just make sure they are .574" to .577" diameter.

    lyman58.jpg


    A barrel of 585HE cases..Ed

    585delivery.jpg

    Made by Bertram and I tested them to max loads and cases hardly expanded,
    650gr over 3000 fps. The same draws used by him to make high pressure
    Cheytac cases, and to finish mine just uses belted header and cases left
    straight and trimmed longer.He makes tens of thousands Cheytac steady all
    the time now and can make ours steady also when needed.....Ed
     
  15. yzguy87

    yzguy87 Member

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    Location:
    Logan, Ohio
    Anyone ever hunt with the 12 gauge From Hell? I know it would be hard to do because of the size and weight of the gun and I'm sure recoil would be stiff too.
    But I'd be interested in knowing how it worked out if anyone has. Oh and pics would be sweet too of you could:D!

    Nice work btw hubel and thanks for the info!
     
  16. hubel458

    hubel458 Member

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    677
    Location:
    Brinton,Mich.
    Guys have hunted with the hopped up loads in 3 and 3.5" plastic cases
    using slugs and with the various lengths of brass cases including
    3.5" brass with slugs. Many plan on using our sabot this fall.ED
     
  17. hubel458

    hubel458 Member

    Joined:
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    677
    Location:
    Brinton,Mich.
    One of our sabot testers with tight barrel, Abolt, with wide lands in
    the barrel, who couldn't do any good at all with our sabot and Alliant Steel
    and one type of slug, had to go to IMR 4759.
    It would twist up the sabot petals. Terrible accuracy.

    My guns have NEF/Sav size barrels and worked fine with Steel as well as 4759.
    Petals open perfect. The Abolt barrel is about .005" smaller than NEF/Sav and
    the lands over twice as wide as the NEF. And has real narrow grooves.
    Guys with Nefs say sabots open fine like ours here.

    He went to different Minie slug and our slow powder loads using
    IMR 4759 powder up to 78-79 gr and finally got down to 2.5" group, I told him
    go to max which is about 80-82 in 3" case.That barrel is like a lot of
    EU made barrels and many are replacement or add on barrels in many slug guns,
    and that is reason why it is so hard to get accuracy across the board in
    sabot shooting in all guns--Takes a lot of work.. Another tester with NEF 12ga using
    Alliant Steel with sabots got good groups like we did here. I tell guys if
    problems occur go to 4759.

    What was happening to sabot petals in the barrel, with the extra tight fit and
    wide lands were petals twisting.. The wide lands were not cutting into the base of
    sabot like in NEF/Sav210 barrels. The twist effect of rifling was on the surface
    of petals, twisting them. It was not getting good hold on the sabot body. The
    4759 starting slower allowed the sabot to get its spin started up to speed
    with the wide land rifling and narrow grooves..It is just the opposite of
    way NEF/Sav 12ga barrels are done. with narrow lands which impress into
    the sabot base the way it is supposed to work..I showed pics above of the
    good rifling marks impressed into our sabots.

    I think after this experimenting run I feel that a lot of accuracy problems
    across the spectrum of barrels are due to barrel differences, and not just
    the differences in factory slugs and/or reloading components.

    Here is pic of bag of our 585 cases with plain head if some need them for
    wildcatting.We have quite a few. Fifteen have 585HE cases now. 585 gun
    building is accelerating. We can get folks going with 100 cases, dies, and soon
    a barrel; and shipping, for 750...Ed

    585plain.jpg
     
  18. hubel458

    hubel458 Member

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    Location:
    Brinton,Mich.
    Here is picture of our 12ga sabots with the marks that the barrel lands made, marked with
    black marker. The one with narrow mark is Savage barrel and one with wide mark is
    an Abolt barrel. And the ones fired in Savage and NEFs with the narrow lands the marks
    impressed into the plastic getting good bite and not twisting the petals. The one from abolt
    he used slower powder for easier start and it open petals ok, without twisting petals like
    the faster powder did for him.

    landmarks.jpg
    ..
    Next is picture showing top edge of sabots. Our sabot on left you roll crimp down over
    the inside of it a little . We have lots of them yet.
    The other factory sabot they crimp real short and sharp
    180 degree crimp down on top of it.

    topedge.jpg

    We see a use for modified 585 application in Indiana deer hunting. Mainly shotgun only, but
    they also allow rifles with over 35cal pistol calibers; and any over 35cal rifle with a case
    1.8" or shorter, sually short wildcats. So we have the the 585 HI... The I is for Indiana.
    Here is picture of it next to the kinda little 500 S&W. 585 HI holds over 80 gr powder.

    Next picture is a Magtech chambered for it. Gets 440gr Minie over 2,100 fps.
    The .585"- .587" Minies of 440gr, 540gr, etc work in it, and they're good deer slugs
    We got other guns with it going into; bolt guns, like in the last picture,
    single shots and checking couple lever actions.
    Might work great in MNs many guys like....Ed

    585hi.jpg

    mt585hi.jpg

    g585hi.jpg
     
  19. hubel458

    hubel458 Member

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    Location:
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    In above post we compare the top thickness of sabots
    .Here is comparison of the thickness of the sides of two types of
    brass 12ga cases, the RMC turned case and the thinner
    Magtech drawn case. Easy to see you can't size with same dies
    and sometimes you have to use different wads..

    comparemrmc.jpg

    In posts earler in the thread you saw variety of wad columns with
    12ga sabots and here is picture of my favorite wads to go between
    seal and sabot. The white felt ones from BPI. They compress down
    evenly on firing, easy to load, decent price,

    whitefelt.jpg

    You've seen the work on our 585HE posted. Folks ask what case
    I made first ones from and how. Here is a sketch showing the steps
    I used to make the first 585HE from long basic straight Nyati brass.
    The start of the belt step I put on the case where it is thick I do it
    in my case spinner lathe I made. Then case is lubed and run into
    couple swaging/sizing dies and comes out formed into our belted,
    straight sided, 585HE case...... It is really faster getting a big
    run of cases made in a factory.


    belting.jpg

    Shot a 12ga sabot load w/440 gr Minie bullet in smoothbore Rossi
    in 3" case, Going about 1700... .. 4" group 3 shots at 30 yds.
    Gun works fine, shoots nice. Got extra weight in the butt.
    The Minie I used is a semi-round nose. If I had the ones of same length
    with blunt nose, slightly heavier the group size would be smaller as
    they'd be more nose heavy, be like Foster slugs..Ed
     
  20. Inebriated

    Inebriated Member

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    This stuff is fantastic, hubel!
     
  21. a-sheepdog

    a-sheepdog Member

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    I thought my 416 Rem Mag was unpleasant to shoot. I don't think that would be much fun. Quite a social tool.
     
  22. hubel458

    hubel458 Member

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    They are not bad, guns are not 7 lb light one, but weighted a little,
    thick pads. can be ported, moderate loads, shoots rasy and
    still much faster than 577NE with moderate loads..Ed
     
  23. Bluedog1

    Bluedog1 Member

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    PM sent
    Thanks
     
  24. hubel458

    hubel458 Member

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    Here is picture of the group improvement a guy had shooting our
    sabots in a real tight barrel. Actually an undersize barrel compared
    to Savage and Nef barrels. Had a wide open group with shotgun
    powder but made it much smaller using much more
    of the slower 4759.

    sabimp.jpg

    There is a guy now in Canada with our sabots for guys there and
    other countries, and as well, he can ship back to here. He plans
    on supplying the .58cal slugs also for the sabots if guys can't get
    them or don't cast their own.......
    Contact is- jeff.a.white@gmail.com
    If things work out for him he plans on getting a bunch
    our 585 cases imported for sales there

    I got some factory 8ga kiln loads, 3 oz lead at 1800 in the long
    barrel falling block. Got box of 25 to see how they compared to
    the loads we set up.Our favorite is 900gr at 2300. in plastic case.

    8gafactory.jpg

    Here is picture of section 585HE case showing 4 pyrodex 54cal,
    60gr equivalent pellets, with a 440 gr Minie bullet.
    Actual powder wt is about 185gr....Goes about 2600.
    Nice cloud of smoke and really bellers out of the slow twist barrel
    barrel we set up for minies.....Top pellet tapered a little and fit
    inside thr hollwbase of the bullet....Ed

    585black.jpg
    Here is picture of the group improvement a guy had shooting our
    sabots in a real tight barrel. Actually an undersize barrel compared
    to Savage and Nef barrels. Had a wide open group with shotgun
    powder but made it much smaller using much more
    of the slower 4759.

    sabimp.jpg

    There is a guy now in Canada with our sabots for guys there and
    other countries, and as well, he can ship back to here. He plans
    on supplying the .58cal slugs also for the sabots if guys can't get
    them or don't cast their own.......
    Contact is- jeff.a.white@gmail.com
    If things work out for him he plans on getting a bunch
    our 585 cases imported for sales there

    I got some factory 8ga kiln loads, 3 oz lead at 1800 in the long
    barrel falling block. Got box of 25 to see how they compared to
    the loads we set up.Our favorite is 900gr at 2300. in plastic case.

    8gafactory.jpg

    Here is picture of section 585HE case showing 4 pyrodex 54cal,
    60gr equivalent pellets, with a 440 gr Minie bullet.
    Actual powder wt is about 185gr....Goes about 2600.
    Nice cloud of smoke and really bellers out of the slow twist barrel
    barrel we set up for minies.....Top pellet tapered a little and fit
    inside thr hollwbase of the bullet....Ed

    585black.jpg
     
  25. hubel458

    hubel458 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2003
    Messages:
    677
    Location:
    Brinton,Mich.
    Another use for 58cal Minie Bullets would be to setup a 24ga FH.
    Minie bullets cheap to cast and buy. We use the .575-.577" in our
    12ga sabot, and the .585-.587 in my 585HE. And you could use
    577 NE bullets also.

    For those in shotgun only areas there is a way. You can get 2.5"
    Magtech brass cases, but also you can set up a 3" chamber and use
    577NE 3" brass. Grafs shows some under 4 bucks each. Cheaper
    than getting them made. And if you set up chamber with shotgun style
    forcing cone you could shoot shorter Magtech as well as plastic cases.
    Reason to use 577 cases, they are stronger solid head, last forever,
    and can be run higher pressures and still last forever.
    You can get barrels, 58cal at Green Mtn I think. .We got some also.

    AND the first batch 585 barrels from McGowen has got here, more
    will be built.They are the regular 1 to 20 twist barrels, and we have 14
    that are profiled and polished, and 3 others that are straight blanks,
    1 to 20 twist. And 6 slow twist barrel blanks for guys doing mainly
    Minie bullet guns, and bunch smoothbore blanks...Pictures soon.

    Here are couple pictures of a 585HE gun a guy is doing with nice
    walnut stock. Gun has extra bedding lug and accra-glassed.
    It is an Enfield and has single stack magazine.

    enaf2.jpg

    enaf3.jpg
     

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