15 yr old kills Family in MD

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Interesting story. You can't always tell a book by it's cover and the family may not have been as wonderful as people thought. I have personal reasons to believe he was pushed over the edge. It's a shame family members had to die because of it. :(
 
Almost all (90%+) of the mass shootings at schools by juveniles have been connected with Prozac or similar mood-altering prescription drugs given as "meds" by psychiatrists, etc. I wouldn't at all be surprised if it were involved this this case also.

I'm sure the vast majority of kids aren't affected in that way, but the small minority that do garner a disproportionate amount of negative publicity.
 
Well, yes.

However, the prescription of meds doesn't necessarily mean the medicine caused the crime, it does however show that the shooter was being seen for mental "issues." Perhaps the medicine didn't work as well as it could have.

Oftentimes, when paranoid schizophrenics commit violence, it's because they stopped taking the meds that prevent them from suffering psychotic episodes.
 
Blaming pills is no different than blaming guns. True, the former does directly mess with brain chemistry, but it doesn't turn a person into a murderer any more than the latter.

NeoSpud, I'm going to have to completely disagree with you on that one. Altering brain chemistry most assuredly DOES cause this sort of thing. We're talking a genuine chemical interaction and reaction not a piece of metal laying on a table. The comparison to a firearm does not apply here. If you think that chemicals/drugs are not capable of taking a perfectly calm and sane individual and turning them completely psycho you need to do more research!
 
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He is a minor and under Maryland law cannot be sentenced to death, in addition O'Malley put a hold on all executions so more then likely he would die of old age before lethal in injection. Hopefully, if the justice system works the way it should he will rot and be miserable in jail. Best case scenario he pulled a gun on the police or they caught him in the act and it would of only ended up costing us tax payers about 35 cents as apposed to the extremely high cost of a lengthy trial as well as keeping him in jail
 
NeoSpud, I'm going to have to completely disagree with you on that one. Altering brain chemistry most assuredly DOES cause this sort of thing. We're talking a genuine chemical interaction and reaction not a piece of metal laying on a table. The comparison to a firearm does not apply here. If you think that chemicals/drugs are not capable of taking a perfectly calm and sane individual and turning them completely psycho you need to do more research!
I don't think that mildly boosting serotonin levels drives people to murder. I know the strength for psychoactive substances to have great effects on people, but we're not talking about PCP. I've studied at great length the neurological pathways and psychological effects of SSRIs, and as someone who also took them for 3 years, I know what it's like. It alters mood. It subsequently influences judgment and decision making. It doesn't turn you into Tony Montana.

Almost all (90%+) of the mass shootings at schools by juveniles have been connected with Prozac or similar mood-altering prescription drugs given as "meds" by psychiatrists, etc. I wouldn't at all be surprised if it were involved this this case also.
Source?

How many millions of people on Prozac or Ritalin DON'T go on mass murder rampages? Even if there is a correlation, I'm not convinced that it isn't caused by moderating variables. We can't just make the comfortable assumption that pills are to blame; that's just academically sterile and the same fallacious reasoning as anti gun opponents. I know many, many gun owning individuals who take antidepressants. I don't worry about them being the next Cho. The problem is much, much more complex than a pill.
 
Almost all (90%+) of the mass shootings at schools by juveniles have been connected with Prozac or similar mood-altering prescription drugs given as "meds" by psychiatrists, etc. I wouldn't at all be surprised if it were involved this this case also.

Association, not causation.

It is not going too far out on a limb to say that someone who kills their entire family has psychiatric problems. Many people with psychiatric problems have at one time or other been medicated for them.

Instead of a bizarre, unsupported chain of causation where psych meds cause someone to become mentally disturbed and kill their family, I would propose the more common sense chain of causation that the psychiatric illness was the reason for the precription, and the cause of the killings.

Many, many millions of people take psych meds and are helped by them. If psych meds turned people into murders, there would be many more millions of murders each year than there are.
 
Is there anyone else who wishes the folks on this board would discuss shooting a bit more and randomly posting every news article that mentions a shooting or a gun a bit less?

I couldn't agree more Jorg.

I also love how 4 innocent people were just brutally murdered, two of which just children and the VERY first post was about how the dead father's name is John Browning. Very Classy and appropriate.:rolleyes:
 
I'll bet that like most adolescents, his brain was still developing and not fully capable of inhibiting sudden strong impulses. Whether or not his decision making capacity was influenced by drugs -prescription or otherwise- is completely baseless conjecture.

Blaming pills is no different than blaming guns. True, the former does directly mess with brain chemistry, but it doesn't turn a person into a murderer any more than the latter.

These drugs, especially at that age, can cause Dissociative disorders(Depersonalization disorder), someone experiencing these types of symptoms would certainly be cataloged as "crazy". Dissociative disorders FURTHER LIMIT the ability of the mind to appreciate the consequnces and RIGHT / WRONGNESS of an act.

So, it adds fuel to the fire. How many school shootings were there before we started handing drugs out like wafers? How many THAT HAVE GONE NUTS have been on these drugs? Why is no one suggesting that we take a serious look at them?

Instead, we are blaming "guns" or parents or whatever. Let's at least LOOK at the possibility that these drugs are CAUSING people to loose it instead of saying that the drugs prove they were already crazy.

BTW, PCP started out as a pain reliever used on burn victims in the 50's. Doses as low as 5mg can cause "flashbacks" later, leading to Dissociative events, out of body expriences, so on and so forth. It was pulled and became an illegal drug used in much greater dosage, but any doctor will say that even in mild doses it is capable of strong effects on the brain. The list of drugs just like that is long...
 
Obligatory anti-gun-owner Baltimore Sun editorial

Right on cue . . .
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/opinion/editorial/bal-ed.guns05feb05,0,6729824.story
A gun in the house

February 5, 2008

Agreat deal is not yet known about the horrific quadruple murders in Cockeysville that have led police to charge a 15-year-old honor student with murdering his parents and two younger brothers. But this much is clear: The presence of a gun in the house did not protect the Browning family; it put them at a greater risk of violence.

Baltimore County police say Nicholas W. Browning used his father's handgun to kill his family on Friday night. While such familicide is hardly common, numerous studies have shown that having a gun in the home can be exceedingly dangerous. In fact, a firearm is far more likely to be used to shoot a family member or acquaintance than to defend the home against an intruder.

That's because the presence of a gun in the home raises the risk of not only homicide but suicide and accidental death as well. One Johns Hopkins study found, for instance, that about one-third of all deadly shootings occur during a family argument. The same study found that nearly 75 percent of suicide victims lived in a home where at least one gun was present.

Yet the National Rifle Association would have the public believe that guns make us safer. Period. Certainly, there are people for whom that is true - and there are devices such as gun safes that can reduce the risks associated with gun ownership.

But the combination of families and deadly weaponry is still too often a devastating mix.

We do not advocate the banning of all guns, but there are measures government can take to reduce their risk. Maryland has a law requiring adults to store guns in a place that is inaccessible to children. Perhaps that rather open-ended and rarely enforced requirement needs to be strengthened.

Such legislation wouldn't necessarily have spared the Brownings, of course. And with roughly 200 million firearms in circulation in this country, it's certainly no cure-all for gun violence. But at minimum, families need to become better educated about the grim reality of bringing a gun into the home. The consequences of that decision are simply too lethal to be ignored.

Yes, comments are HOT !
 
Well, Dell Shannon blew his brains out while on prozac. A drug such as this is, by its very design and nature, is intended to alter the mental state of the user. Mildly? Sure, but the Shannon episode shed tremendous light on the dangers of anti-depresents and other mind-altering drugs.

Does this mean this kid was on something? Who knows. However, dad was a scout leader in this fellow's troop. If nothing else, this does show that the father was doing the extracurricular work with his son.

Frankly, I know of a boy who did pull out a shotgun after a fight with his step-father. The shotgun got put back up before dad got home, but the thought was there. I would not be surprised if this fellow, who is about the same age, committed a terrible crime.

As to the boys not responding, if you are 12 or so and your big brother comes into your room, you just can't imagine he's going to shoot you.

Ash
 
more nonsense

Jeez, not content with the Brady and Joyce-funded talking points, the Sun just goes ahead and quotes directly from the source:

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/local/baltimore_county/bal-browning0205,0,6796651,full.story
Few clues in Cockeysville shootings
Teen held without bail in killing of his parents, 2 brothers; community to hold vigil tonight

By Justin Fenton and Gina Davis

Sun reporters

11:25 AM EST, February 5, 2008

Nicholas Browning appeared on the television screen in a Towson courtroom yesterday, his dirty-blond hair tousled, wearing a jail-issued orange jumpsuit. The 15-year-old Dulaney High School sophomore answered the judge's questions with "ma'am," as he was ordered held without bail in his first court appearance after being charged with murdering his family.

No juvenile criminal record, said the pretrial services official. No history of substance abuse or mental illness. No clues in the courtroom that might enable students at two Cockeysville schools to understand how an honor student on the verge of becoming an Eagle Scout could be behind bars and why two of their young classmates have been shot dead.

"It sounded so surreal," said Dulaney High School senior Shannon Lee, walking across the school lawn yesterday morning and recalling the moment she heard the news. "Who goes home and kills their parents?"

A vigil is scheduled tonight to remember the Browning family at 7:30 at County Home Park, 9841 Greenside Drive, in Cockeysville.

The Cockeysville community seemed not much closer yesterday to finding answers to the killings Friday night or early Saturday of John W. and Tamara Browning and their other two sons, 14-year-old Gregory and 11-year-old Benjamin.

But the educational and court systems began their responses, deploying counselors to schools and appointing an aunt and uncle as legal guardians to look after Nicholas Browning's interests.

The teen's lawyer, Steven D. Silverman, cautioned against reading too much into the confession that police say Browning gave them hours after calling 911 to report his father's death.

"I'm just concerned that you have a ... traumatized 15-year-old boy, who gave a confession in the wee hours of Sunday morning, in a police station, after denying these charges for several hours, without an adult, without an attorney," Silverman said outside the courthouse.

"I am only suggesting there is a need not to jump to conclusions. Let's look at the circumstances and go from there."

Silverman said the teen had personally contacted his law firm several times Sunday. As Nicholas Browning appeared for his court hearing yesterday through a video link with the county detention center, Silverman lobbied for bail to be set at $1 million, noting the teen's numerous extracurricular activities, including sports, Boy Scouts and music.

Because he is under 16 years old, Browning is not eligible for the death penalty.

Police have said Browning had had disagreements with his father, but they did not release new details in the case yesterday, including what kind of firearm was used and whether the weapon, owned by the father, was registered. An incident sheet reviewed at the Cockeysville precinct said the weapon was a 9 mm Smith and Wesson.

Greg Shipley, a state police spokesman, said Maryland law requires handguns to be secured and stored out of the reach of a child under the age of 16. Failure to keep firearms away from children is a misdemeanor and subject to a fine up to $1,000, he said.

But he said the law is not specific about what type of measures need to be taken.

"We recommend that the weapon have trigger locks that can be used and the weapon be unloaded and in a locked box," Shipley said. "We certainly endorse a layered approach to make sure that the gun stays inaccessible."

Daniel Webster, an associate professor and co-director at the Johns Hopkins Center for Gun Policy, said Maryland has one of the better-crafted gun laws.

He said about 20 states have laws that require owners of firearms to lock up their guns.

Webster said these type of laws for firearms owners have reduced unintentional shootings throughout the country by about 23 percent. Little data exists, however, on whether locking up guns reduces deliberate shootings, Webster said.

Gun rights advocates such as Erich Pratt of Gun Owners of America said yesterday that the lobby group opposes most restrictions on handguns inside the home. He added that keeping a gun locked away and secured by a trigger lock would hobble a law-abiding homeowner with only seconds to respond to an intruder.

Still, those advocating more regulation point out that while handguns account for only one-third of all firearms owned in the United States, they are instrumental in more than two-thirds of the firearm-related deaths each year.

Paul Helmke, president of the Brady Campaign, the nation's largest nonpartisan grass-roots organization against gun violence, said that a gun is 22 times more likely to be used against a family member than to ward off an outsider.

Grief counselors were at Dulaney High and Cockeysville Middle schools yesterday morning to help students deal with the news that a schoolmate had been charged with fatally shooting his family over the weekend.

Shortly after the first bell of the school day, Philip W. Taylor, principal at Cockeysville Middle School, prepared to walk the halls to check on students and staff.

By the end of the day, lockers of brothers Gregory and Ben Browning were covered with cards and signs.

"We're trying to help the kids through this," Taylor said. "This is an extremely emotional day for our school community. This is a family who has come through this school. This is a devastating loss to the whole school community."

Memorial groups sprang up on the popular Facebook networking Web site, with hundreds of young people who knew the family or the children expressing a wide array of emotions.

While some condemned Nicholas Browning, others offered cautious support.

"Mr. Browning would want everyone to give support and pray for Nick despite his actions. That's just the kind of person, and family they were," wrote one man, who said his father worked in John Browning's Towson law firm.

At Royston, Mueller, McLean & Reid, where John Browning had worked for about 20 years, the phones were ringing continuously yesterday with calls of condolence, said Edward J. Gilliss, one of the firm's partners.

"It's an extended-family tragedy," said Gilliss, who added that a grief counselor was brought to the firm's Towson office to help co-workers.

"John was always full of spirit, always loyal to his friends and family. It's hard to lose that."

Comments are HOT !
 
It will be interesting to see -- provided they'll reveal it -- if this kid was already the subject of counseling activities, and whether there were prescriptions involved.

I bet he was on ritalin, paxil or some other drug....
Seriously, I bet he was and it caused him to flip. Almost all young kids are on the crap now.

As the father of a young man with a very serious mental illness, these kinds of comments disturb me deeply. My son did not choose to have this brain disease, nor was it caused by "bad parenting" - we raised both our children with love and attention. My wife and I worked out of our home when they were growing up and we were always there for them - as we are still.

Mental illnesses are the result of abnormalities in brain chemistry and are every bit as "real" as cancer - and sometimes even more devastating. Mental illnesses are NOT CAUSED by prescription drugs. I can tell you, however, that my son would be absolutely unable to function without his prescription meds. In the past, he would have been institutionalized for life - with no hope of parole. This is a talented, intelligent, big-hearted young man who hasn't a violent bone in his body, and has never hurt anyone or committed any crimes.

Perhaps it is comforting for some of you to believe that it is the pharmaceutical industry's fault - that it couldn't happen in your family - but you are wrong! Thousands of families are afflicted by these tragic illnesses. In many cases, counseling and prescriptions are a God-send that may return their loved ones to near normal functioning. Good people that in the past would have been locked away - out of your sight - out your thoughts - and out of their minds.
 
I think the mistake we sometimes make is not recognizing instability in our own families and making sure the guns cannot be accessed by those possibly unstable family members.

When my kids were teenagers they were VERY impulsive. That is when I purchased a lock box. Not very expensive, but enough to keep them from grabbing something in anger and doing something no one can take back....
 
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Tragedy?

Actually, this was a violent crime, a murder.

The murder was committed by a person, a murderer.

Discussion of the weapon, as though it was somehow the prime mover, is a red herring.

Let's look at the perpetrator, instead of misdirecting attention to the device. Was the perpetrator on mind-altering medication? Was the perpetrator already undergoing counseling or treatment?

If the perpetrator was already known to be unstable, then his father leaving a weapon accessible to him was a fatal mistake. But then, if I had an unstable child living at home, I would also not leave my hatchet or machete or chain saw unlocked either. A murderous person in a violent rage isn't going to be overly picky about the weapon, but will use a weapon of opportunity best suited to the murder he means to commit.

I provide for my own defense.

I do not leave weapons of opportunity available for anyone I mistrust in my house.

You have a crime here. Of the "motive, means, and opportunity" trio, we have only dealt with means and opportunity. The motive is the driving force here, not the means.

Let us look to the motive, and what forces acted in concert to elevate that motive. The means and opportunity are only physical attributes of this crime. They are not to blame.

Let us look to the motive, for it is in the motive, not the means, that this crime exists.

~~ ArfinGreebly
 
There are legions of people who are made productive because of anti psychotic medications. They desperately need these drugs.

However, there are many of kids who are improperly medicated, too. Prozac was directly implicated to the Shannon suicide.

Ash
 
I live about 20 miles from Cockeysville. It is a nice area to raise a family.
On the news video that I saw, the house appeared to be very upscale. The father, by news accounts, was involved in his childrens' lives.

By all rights, this should have never happened.

Whether the boy is or was on psych meds has yet to be determined. I find it incredible that some here are so quick to jump to conclusions.

For the record, the editorial from the Sun was surprisingly mild. That paper is so anti-gun that they won't even allow firearms to be listed in their classifieds.

My heart and prayers go out to the victims; may they rest in peace.
 
If you have a "child" in the house and the relationship is tense, leaving a pistol unsecured is pretty much a non-starter.

I'd dare say that if your "child" threatens murder, and there's a grain of will behind it, the kid belongs in a military school, locked up away from the rest of your family. I doubt you honestly believe the same atrocity couldn't have been comitted with, say, a bread knife (oh, because it has already). In fact, since I can't very well secure a firearm while I'm sleeping, having one unsecured right close by is the best policy in the face of a lethal threat.

My father and I had a "tense" relationship to say the very least. The thought of murder never even entered my mind. Not even close. I refuse to believe that the parents were oblivious to the fact that they had raised a monster.
 
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