.22 for self defense

[303tom]

Yes I do..................

 

[MCgunner]

If you think the .22 ain't reliable enough and think you need more reliability, get a .25. Just think of it as a centerfire .22 designed for small autos. Even cheap crap ones seem to work, like the Ravens, but I'd get a better one from Taurus, perhaps. They're available in .25ACP. Not cheap to feed, but reliable.

 

[DefiantDad]

If you were selecting a .22 for self defense, pistol or revolver, what would you opt for? Of utmost importance would be reliability (this has me thinking revolver), and durability- so often 22 autos are made out of aluminum or zinc pot metal and aren't going to be around in 30 years let alone 50...

I heard tell that when gun laws went south in Africa, everyone bought up ruger 22s (among other things) because they'll last and last without factory support.

Now if, due to illness and injuries, you were reduced to something with literally no recoil, but still were going to CCW, what would you select and why?

Two I am considering- LCR 22, bersa 22....thoughts?

I am totally new to firearms. So, many things the experienced guys here have, ah, experienced, I have not.

A few weeks (?) ago, I started shooting a 22LR pistol as part of my 9mm pistol practicing.

That experience led me to totally throw out any notion of using a 22LR for a life or death situation. The caliber might be fun to shoot, but it is prone to jam, and it is fairly dirty, throwing out a "death cloud of lead" and all manner of spit up brass chunks, which I have not experienced with other pistol rounds. I can only imagine this can get worse as you end up with guns that are hardly (able to be) cleaned, lower quality ammo, etc.

Maybe copper jacketed 22LR will be better, but the experience really gave me a hands on understanding of what it's about, and takes away from all the comments I've read on survival-oriented websites saying the 22LR is the best all-around survival caliber. Yeah right.

 

[Kiln]

Yeah but the cost has increased because now you get much less ammo for your money and you still have fairy dust all over your hands after using it!

I'd rather buy bulk ammo that funcions well, is cheap, and more importantly, is a fairy dust free product.

 

[Rorge Retson]

A few weeks (?) ago, I started shooting a 22LR pistol as part of my 9mm pistol practicing. That experience led me to totally throw out any notion of using a 22LR for a life or death situation. The caliber might be fun to shoot, but it is prone to jam, and it is fairly dirty, throwing out a "death cloud of lead" and all manner of spit up brass chunks, which I have not experienced with other pistol rounds. I can only imagine this can get worse as you end up with guns that are hardly (able to be) cleaned, lower quality ammo, etc.

I can guarantee you were not shooting with CCI Mini Mags. Pretty much every other 22LR ammo out there blows, but the CCI offerings are top-rate....the difference between night and day.

 

[DefiantDad]

Um, the box said CCI. The bullets were all just lead though. HP lead. Every time I shot the 22LR, they sold me a box of 100 CCIs.

There is a sticky packaging tape that goes around on the top, with a sliding transparent lid and transparent box.

 

[Mr.357Sig]

If I were limited to .22, I'd go with the LCR or SP-101. I really like the 101.

I might step up to a convertible .22 like the Taraus Tracker, giving me the option of shooting .22 Mag.

 

[Rorge Retson]

If they didn't say Mini Mag on the container, they weren't the good stuff. Seriously, these are the best out there. Some manufacturers of finicky guns say use the CCI MMs for this very reason - they are the best.

Before you bail on the 22LR for good, you owe it to yourself to try this ammo. Also (and I am sure you know this), make sure the gun is clean and functioning properly as well.

 

[DefiantDad]

OK I will see if I can shoot some 22LR.

Regarding cleaning, no the Ruger 22 was a super dirty rental; that's sort of the point when it comes to a survival firearm. So, I basically considered that a real world test of the 22LR theory.

 

[76shuvlinoff]

First of all.....I wouldn't.

But if I did, I would use my 1911 conversion kit with 15 rd magazines, and probably load it with Stingers, and try to dump as many of them to center of mass in as short a time as possible. Some quibble over solid vs hp, etc, I don't think the difference is significant enough to worry about it.

When I had to leave town I used to set up my 1911 for .22lr and fill it with Stingers for my wife but as much as we worked on it she hated all my autos and for some reason especially the fullsize 1911.

A while back I got my hands on a neglected Taurus .38 with a 4 " barrel. A little love and trigger work it runs like butter, My wife did a complete turnaround...then my daughter picked it up and out shot the wife. I still have a Taurus but the wife's bedside gun is now a 4"SP101 .357 loaded with 158gr .38s.

A .22 will work. I'd get at least a nine shot DA revolver if going that route. I just think a .38 is better.

 

[303tom]

If you think the .22 ain't reliable enough and think you need more reliability, get a .25. Just think of it as a centerfire .22 designed for small autos. Even cheap crap ones seem to work, like the Ravens, but I'd get a better one from Taurus, perhaps. They're available in .25ACP. Not cheap to feed, but reliable.

Come on, the .25 ACP don`t even have half the muzzle energy of the .22 LR fired from the same length barrel.

 

[amd6547]

I have a Beretta Bobcat in 22lr, and one in 25acp. I recently fired both into a thick, glossy paper Midway catalog.
The penetration was similar, but the 25acp penetrated about 25 pages deeper.
I shoot the 22lr for fun and practice, and carry the 25 (it is in my pocket right now).
Another plus for the 25 version...the MecGar mag holds 9 rounds, giving me 10. The 22lr holds seven.
Regarding the reliability of 22 ammo, I have been shooting 22 rimfire a lot for the last year. I have shot it in a Ruger 10/22, a Ruger Mk1, a Ruger SR22P, the Beretta Bobcat, and an old French Unique pistol. I shoot exclusively CCI MiniMags, stingers, Blazer bulk, and Aguila SuperMax. No failures to fire, and the only jams I had were with an aftermarket mag in the Beretta.

 

[Ishoot1st]

NAA black widow, .22lr & short cylinder W/ .22 wmg cylinder.

Greatest little revolver ever. I selected it for a BUG gun, but my daughter loves it. At 9 years old, the guns "oversized" grips fit her hand perfect. She started practicing with .22 short, then moved up to .22lr and then the mighty magnum. The magnum rounds are very loud and intimidating from a 2 inch barrel. Well over 1000 rounds of various .22 ammo, not ONE single misfire, even wally world cheap stuff. It has notches in the cylinder so the hammer dosn't rest on a live round, I feel very confident with this gun as a BUG or only CCW. It combines the very best a .22 can offer... cheap practice ammo, RELIABILITY, and deep concealment, the smallest gun i would carry that I know works.
If your talkin about home defense....get the pmr-30. Nice gun, on my wishlist.

 

[22-rimfire]

I have been considering getting one of the little NAA revolvers in 22LR to use as a bug when no other gun will work. They seem pretty safe. The price sure has gone up on those little revolvers.

If you are going to use a 22LR for self defense and you want practical concealability, it is hard to beat the Ruger LCR-22 for reliability. Been really impressed with this gun. Seems that there are more holster choices starting to come available now.

 

[jimbo555]

If "utmost importance is reliability" then pick something other than a 22! There great for plinking and training,but thats it unless your a small game hunter!

 

[MedWheeler]

DefiantDad writes:

Regarding cleaning, no the Ruger 22 was a super dirty rental; that's sort of the point when it comes to a survival firearm. So, I basically considered that a real world test of the 22LR theory.

How do you figure this? There's a reason cops and soldiers are expected to know how to clean their weapons, and to do so between firing sessions. There is no reason a citizen carrying a firearm for personal protection should have to include "shoots well when a super-dirty rental" in their performance criteria. Street cops almost never have to fire extended-string sessions in defensive situations, and lawfully-armed citizens never do. Not like soldiers might have to.
And I second that anyone carrying a .22LR, particularly a semi-automatic, should be stoking it with real CCI MiniMag 40-grain copper-plated rounds. When I say I've fired tens of thousands of rounds of .22LR without a misfire, these are what I've been talking about. In fact, I've never had one with any brand or power level, but I have had functional failures with non-MiniMag stuff.
I don't carry a .22LR for defense simply because I have other choices available. But, I wouldn't be trembling in my boots if that was what I had, and I'll never disparage anyone else who carries one as part of an overall-well-executed plan.

 

[DefiantDad]

DefiantDad writes:

How do you figure this? There's a reason cops and soldiers are expected to know how to clean their weapons, and to do so between firing sessions. There is no reason a citizen carrying a firearm for personal protection should have to include "shoots well when a super-dirty rental" in their performance criteria. Street cops almost never have to fire extended-string sessions in defensive situations, and lawfully-armed citizens never do. Not like soldiers might have to.
And I second that anyone carrying a .22LR, particularly a semi-automatic, should be stoking it with real CCI MiniMag 40-grain copper-plated rounds. When I say I've fired tens of thousands of rounds of .22LR without a misfire, these are what I've been talking about. In fact, I've never had one with any brand or power level, but I have had functional failures with non-MiniMag stuff.
I don't carry a .22LR for defense simply because I have other choices available. But, I wouldn't be trembling in my boots if that was what I had, and I'll never disparage anyone else who carries one as part of an overall-well-executed plan.

You are not incorrect, but perhaps did not realize that my scenario (briefly mentioned earlier) was describing the 22LR as the "go to caliber" by End Of The World Survivalists, who frequently cite the 22LR as the best caliber when everything has gone downhill and there are very little supplies to clean guns (forget Hoppes and CLP) and perhaps even very little time to do any cleaning. And probably no choice in ammo, such as CCI.

My conclusion based on my experience was that the survivalists are wrong in this matter, that the 22LR is probably the worst choice in survival ammo, due to unreliability.

 

[Kiln]

People don't list the .22lr as a survival gun solely in the SHTF sense, they often list it in a survival sense, like in your deep woods backpacking gear. In an emergency of course it can and has been used against two legged predators effectively (most agree that multiple shots are important and placement is key).

Some reasons people say to buy a .22lr pistol:

1. Ammo is cheap. Even the expensive .22lr ammo (CCI $7 per 100) is cheaper than 9mm luger ($12+ per 50)

2. Ammo is widely available. Maaany people own a .22lr pistol or rifle of some type or another.

3. Ammo is light. 100 rounds is lighter than 50 rounds of many other ammo types.

4. The .22lr is adequate for small game, which is what the intended use should be in a survival kit.

 

[rodinal220]

I would use my S&W 2213/14.These have proven to be very reliable,accurate and easy to shoot.They also conceal well.I would use CCI ammo as it seems to be the most reliable.

 

[MachIVshooter]

Come on, the .25 ACP don`t even have half the muzzle energy of the .22 LR fired from the same length barrel.

Actually, they're dead even out of short barrels. I have done A LOT of chronographing with multiple guns and multiple loads of each cartridge with barrel lengths of 2"-3", and ME is for either is 60-85 FPE. Not exactly stellar, when you consider the lowly .380 ACP is capable of well over 200 FPE from the likes of the P3AT and other micro guns. Of course, energy doesn't tell the whole story, but the bottom line is .22's and .25's are just plain inadequate as defensive cartridges. The only time I'll advocate their use is if the shooter cannot handle recoil at all.

 

[Kiln]

Actually, they're dead even out of short barrels. I have done A LOT of chronographing with multiple guns and multiple loads of each cartridge with barrel lengths of 2"-3", and ME is for either is 60-85 FPE.

Thank you, saved me the effort of explaining. Points also go to the lowly .25acp over the .22lr because:

1. Actual FMJ ammo feeds better.

2. Priming is more reliable.

Still though, while I'd prefer something larger and more powerful, I'd be alright with carrying a little .25acp pistol as long as it was reliable.

 

[MedWheeler]

DefiantDad writes:

You are not incorrect, but perhaps did not realize that my scenario (briefly mentioned earlier) was describing the 22LR as the "go to caliber" by End Of The World Survivalists, who frequently cite the 22LR as the best caliber when everything has gone downhill and there are very little supplies to clean guns (forget Hoppes and CLP) and perhaps even very little time to do any cleaning. And probably no choice in ammo, such as CCI.

My conclusion based on my experience was that the survivalists are wrong in this matter, that the 22LR is probably the worst choice in survival ammo, due to unreliability.

Yeah, you're right. I never would have assumed you were talking about TEOTWAWKI scenarios. I don't think I've heard much about the .22LR being recommended as a good round for that. Would make sense in some aspects, but not in others.

 

[22-rimfire]

The 22LR is a fairly good survival choice. I think the 22WMR may be better in the long run if you have ammuntion. But neither is a great caliber to choose if you are fighting off hoards of zombies (aka 2-legged predators), or a large bear. But there are limitations to all caliber choices.