25 06 VS 243 for Deer Rifle

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Shawnee,

I go for the heavier bullet in 25-06and the Roberts. Sorry, just made that assumption that when we stepped up in powder, we'd step up in bullet weight, delivered energy, and trajectory. I own 3 243s that I love, but I'll have to stick with my original stance on the subject.

I did appreciate the informative post, though. And on that subject, would you happen to know how Hornady's ballistic software compares to RCBS'. I'm in the market. New job, new money, more time to tweak the rifles.
 
i like my 243 and i have shot a few deer with my uncles 25 06 and as far as i can tell all the deer that were shot were about the same amount of dead just a thought
 
Shawnee/NCsmitty...

No name-calling, now! As per usual in these instances, there are multiple points to be made. I believe NCsmitty's reference to bullet style is legitimate, because the SP bullet style is significantly different than the BTHP. If, for instance, the SP bullet is subjected to greater Drag, and thence greater (velocity) Retardation (the constant for bullet shape being different in the drag formula), then the Energy at longer ranges will be affected dramatically, as it is the square of velocity that is used in the energy equation. Thus, small differences, especially as they affect velocity,(and at longer ranges) may certainly "muddy" the energy equation.
Of course, then the discussion would need to shift to which bullet does a better job of transferring its Kinetic Energy upon impact, which would involve another string of variables that could effectively allow anyone to argue both/either side of the fence.
Shall we say both are more than capable of getting the job done and are very close in performance...making the rifleman the more important figure than the rifle.
I keep thinking back to our poster "Caribou", who expertly gets his subsistence hunting done in Alaska with a .223 (and FMJ bullets) very efficiently, thank you, by being able to place the shot exactly where he wants it every time (or not taking it).
 
Hi Cinteel...

You're right, of course, that the heavier bullet takes the .25/06 into a different league from the .243. Below is the comparison of the Hornady 95gr. SST (flat-based spitzer) to their 120gr. SST. (By the way - in the first number set I did a typo - the data for the 95gr. bullet is for the "SST", not a BTHP.)


Velocity 200yds - 2410 for the .243 and 2519 for the .25/06
Energy 200yds - 1225 for the .243 and 1648 for the .25/06

Velocity 300yds - 2184 for the .243 and 2301 for the .25/06
Energy 300yds - 1006 for the .243 and 1375 .25/05

Velocity 400yds - 1971 for the .243 and 2093 for the .25/06
Energy 400yds - 819 for the .243 and 1138 for the .25/06

Both are capable cartridges for deer at 400yds or a tad more and the .25/06 is viable for deer a dram or two farther than that.

Obviously a good handloader could take the .25/06 well into .270 territory and there sure isn't a thing wrong with that except the increase in recoil and blast.

I just use the "ballistic resources" feature on the Hornady website....

http://www.hornady.com/ballistics/ballistics_calculator.php

....so I can't offer any information or comparison of any the regular software programs.

:cool:
 
Instead of trying to flame me with your (usual) unsubstantiated accusations - how about you put up the numbers of the bullets you feel are "equal in style".
Click to expand...
Shawnee, Please realize that I'm not "flaming" you. It is good natured banter between people who both can read and use ballistics charts and use them to our advantage. I only point out that you pick and choose loads to give your choice (usually the 243 Win) the advantage and have complimented you on this before. I have stated before, the 243 is a wonderful cartridge but this time, is at a ballistic disadvantage against the 25-06 because of the disparity in powder capacity. You of all people know that cartridges loaded to the same pressures with equal BC bullets, the cartridge with the substantially higher powder charge and velocity is going to out preform. There is nothing magic about ballistic formulas. The thread was 25-06 vs 243 as deer cartridges. All I ask is honest comparisons. In this comparison, the 25-06 provides a ballistic advantage, but both will do the job if the shooter is competent.
I'm here at this site to exchange knowledge and experience with those with the same love of firearms, but I do not run from a challenge.
Your a good man to correct your error on the ballistic chart.

NCsmitty
 
Hi NCSmitty...


"I only point out that you pick and choose loads to give your choice (usually the 243 Win) the advantage "

With all due respects to your noble self - that accusation is false.

In this case I chose bullets of similar weight - eg. deer bullets - in keeping with the topic.... not to "give advantage" to the .243 - but to compare fairly.

Since one cannot increase caliber and attain a similar BC without increasing bullet weight - in the case of the .243 vs..25/06, that moves the .25/06 from a deer bullet to a "larger-than-deer" bullet.

That's why I always class the .243 as a "varmint-to-deer" cartridge and the .25/06 as a "varmint-to-Elk" cartridge, and therein lies the substantial virtue of the .25/06 and its' advantage over the .243. That logic should be obvious in the second set of numbers I posted.

I'm always willing to learn, though, so I'll look forward to seeing which two bullets you deem an "equal" and fair comparison. So post away.

;)
 
full disclosure. i have/shoot a .25-06 Win classic super grade with a 4.5-14 vxIII. i do not have a .243. i do not reload

i have shot about 1 dozen factory loads and my .25 will put winchester power points - the silver box stuff- inside 1 inch at 100. other factory stuff not so accurate. It has greased pigs and deer with no problems. i am saving up for a pronghorn hunt. i would feel confident in a elk hunt if the shot was right, but then my bro just whacked an elk with his 60 year old .300 savage (with some old ammo my grandpa gave him, against my reccomendation BTW,but he had shot several to sight it in and felt ok with the rifle)

the 25 is devasting on coyotes. really hammers the pelts

just buy whatever one you like best. they will both kill deer equally efficient
 
Quote:
Whatever you do, go with the heavy end of the spectrum in both cartridges and go for heart/lung shots.
Quote:
Whatever you do, go with the heavy end of the spectrum in both cartridges WHEN go for heart/lung shots, but lighter is OK WHEN you go for neck shots.
Fixed it for ya.
Click to expand...

When it's deer, I do heavy bullets and heart/lung shots, period. Light bullets are for prairie dogs and coyotes and i've never trusted a bullet to the neck to anchor a deer.
 
The RIGHT Bullet says it all

Using the WRONG bullet negates any caliber advantage. A 100 grain Speer Grand Slam in .243 Winchester will cleanly kill any DEER. A 100 Grain Nosler Partition in .243 Winchester will cleanly kill any DEER. Lesser bullets may or may not! Increasing caliber size and consequent recoil may create flinching and associated inaccuracy of aim. Yes, a lot of range practice will assist in handling bigger, stronger calibers, but a .243 Winchester, with its reasonably mild recoil remains KING for people who simply cannot dedicate a lot of time at the range. Still some range time is always required for sighting-in for reasonable accuracy and to re-enforce steadiness. I shoot two-to-three times a week at the RANGE. I fire upwards of 150 rounds a week. I hit my target precisely with regularity. I still opt for the venerable .243 Winchester because it feels just right! cliffy
 
For deer, either will work well. I don't know what you're hunting in or what kind of shots you have an opportunity to take, but for general deer hunting (call it 250 yards), either will do just fine and any benefits will not be realized until longer ranges. FWIW, I fired a 243 with a 22" barrel next to my buddies 7mm rem mag with a 24" or 26" barrel and the 243 was a lot louder, which may or may not be significant.

As far as comparing recoil goes, I get the feeling it's close enough that there's not enough difference to argue it.
 
As far as comparing recoil goes, I get the feeling it's close enough that there's not enough difference to argue it.
Click to expand...

WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!! We here on THR have all been schooled enough to realize that ANYTHING above a .243 creates such a flame-throwing, shoulder-blasting, ear-splitting conflagration that it is simply unmanageable by any or all that would deem to pick up a rifle and hope to be able to actually make a decent shot ((Sorry, couldn't resist, fellas...relax, would ya!))
 
"...the 25-06 is an excellent cartridge..." Yep. So is the .257 Roberts. The only issue with either of 'em is a widespread availablity of ammo. If you get off to Upperubberboot, hunting, only to find you left your ammo on the loading bench or kitchen table, you might not be able to find factory ammo in the Upperubberboot General Store. Up here, I can guarantee it.
"...a .243 with a 22" barrel..." That'd do it.
"...really hammers the pelts..." Change bullets if you're keeping the hides. Sierra makes a 100 grain HPBT Matchking that won't blow big holes in the hide. Don't use 'em for deer though. They make a 90 grain HPBT Gameking that should do nicely too. Hornady makes a 117 grain SST too.
 
Shawnee said:
I think the .257 Roberts is one of the most underappreciated cartridges there is. It would be great if bullet and ammo makers put a bit more effort into coming up with really good varmint bullets/ammo for it. Personally, I think it could also be perfectly viable for Elk, too.
Click to expand...

I'm behind that 100%. The very mild recoil allows for better shot placement for most shooters, and the cartridge has more than sufficient power.

I took a Colorado elk two years ago with a Barnes Triple Shock 115 gr and plan on brining the Quarter Bob with me the later half of next month for another.
 
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Good Info

New to the forum, but this one really sparked my interest. Have had a ruger 77 ultra light in 243 for my daughter and wife to use on deer here in Mt for a long time, extremely effective on both white tails and mule deer. Have always just used factory 100 gr winchester power points with no complaints, never had a deer go more than 25 yards, most just hit the ground.

That said, my wife decided to get into the elk ring with me last year. I had a 7mm rem mag, 300 win mag, 338 win mag, and 375 H&H in the vault, all of which I killed elk with no issue. Tried out the 7mm on her, seemed ok at the range shooting off sticks, so off we went for elk. 30 head, 200 yards out, beautiful setup, wife sits down, takes aim, boom, "my eye, my eye". Didnt take into account her having possible bad form from a sitting position and creeping up on the stock......

That leads me to the 25-06. Spent the better part of this year researching and trying to find something that would kill an elk reliably, but not cost me thousands in plastic surgeons... The 257 roberts, 260 rem, 25-06, 270, and 280 were all my final contenders. I had a 257 roberts a long time ago, and provided you reload its a great round. not having much time for reloading the last few years, i axed that one. Let her shoot a friends 270, that was still rocking her pretty hard (5'8", 125 lbs, so not alot to hold things back). Couldn't find anyone with a 260 to try out, but managed to get my hands on a 25-06 for her to try. Seemed to be acceptable all the way around from the shootability perspective.

So i bought a rem 700 stainless synthetic for her, topped it with a leopold 3x9 ultralight glass. I think i am in love with the gun at least, sum MOA groups with 120 gr remington corelokts. Will see if it is truely a viable elk gun or not here in 3 weeks, elk opens Oct 26 here in Mt, and i have a surplus cowtag to test it on first. Will report back here on how that goes soon hopefully!

Checking all the energy details out, seems to me a 120 at 3100 has about 1850 ftlbs of energy still at 200 yards, and i always figured a ton of energy was sufficient with a decent bullet on an elk, so wil see if that logic prevails.....

One final note for teh 243 fans, they can and will kill an elk, i shot mine with it last year with the same 100 gr winchester power points to see if i should turn the wife loose with it on elk. 50 yards, slight quartering shot, it liquified the lungs, but the bullet hung against the off side shoulder blade. dead in 10 steps, but placement is obviously everything, dont think i would recomend it to anyone except a very experienced shooter/hunter.

Can't wait to post some elk results!
 
Decker, I am fired up to see how it works..

I am very interested in this caliber right now. Please keep us updated and good hunting.

Matt
 
on deer sized game it's hard to tell the difference between a 25/06 with 115-120gr. bullets and a .270 with 130's.
Click to expand...

so is that a good argument to use in the 25-06 vs 243 debate? It seems to tell me "Get a 270 winchester"
 
The .25-06 is unsurpassed as a varmint cartridge, ideal for antelope and deer, and suitable for elk.

It is nearly as flexible as it's parent cartridge.

Recoil is present, but easily tolerable to all but the most sensitive shooter.

It is, however, an extremely loud cartridge. Very sharp crack.

I use everything from 75 gr. V-max's at 3,700 FPS for vaporizing praire dogs to 120 gr. Sierra's at 3,200 FPS for elk.

Save big bears and moose, there is no game animal on this continent that I wouldn't go after with my 700 BDL .25-06.

I also have a 6mm Rem, which edges out the .243 Win. in the .244" cartridge class. I limit it's use to animals no larger than mule deer.
 
Does the 25 06 actually perform better all around than the 243 for Deer?
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Dead is dead!!!!!!!!!!!

Every deer I have shot in Northern Missouri has been dead on impact and only one traveled 20 yards with the .243 and 100 gr. Nosler Partitions.
 
They both kill deer dead...
Click to expand...

Different tools for different jobs. Take the data quoted (irrespective of how the specifics bias towards .243 Win):

Velocity 200yds - 2410 for the .243 and 2519 for the .25/06
Energy 200yds - 1225 for the .243 and 1648 for the .25/06

Velocity 300yds - 2184 for the .243 and 2301 for the .25/06
Energy 300yds - 1006 for the .243 and 1375 .25/05

Velocity 400yds - 1971 for the .243 and 2093 for the .25/06
Energy 400yds - 819 for the .243 and 1138 for the .25/06
Click to expand...

So at 400 Yards, (beyond ethical IMO), the .25-06 has more velocity and energy than the .243 Win at 300 yards. In that case, .25-06 has a clear advantage.

On this board, personal preferences often get cast as fact, when the numbers speak clearly. It's good we aren't discussing Box Wrenches, for I'm sure we would get into debates where some are convinced a 3/8" is better than a 1/2" wrench, for any job, because a 1/2" wrench and bolt are a wasteful use of steel for any 'realistic' purpose. ;)
 
Shawnee said everything I would have said in his first post in this thread...except he said it better than I could have.

I have taken a lot of deer and varmints with a 25-06...it is, as Shawnee said, as close as it gets to the ideal varmint, deer, elk combo rifle.

I like both the 243 and 25-06...but if I were forced to choose only one of them, it would be the 25-06.
 
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