2nd church shooting in CO

[txgho1911]

I am guessing as a security team they are not as organized that private or contract security would be. There would be a lot more concealment of this position with less formal appointment as security.
Most likely she is one of several like minded individuals who mind the store wherever they may be in the building.
One note above about questions on how many and how armed would not be correct questions to answer for any sized organization.

 

[mekender]

michalesavage.com has a pic of the guard as well as links to the local news articles...

and he specifically said over the air "over 100 lives were saved by just one gun"

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/14817480/detail.html#

and

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news/2007/dec/10/cops-search-arapahoe-home/

 

[mekender]

according to the guard

Assam appeared before the media with applause and said "God guided me and protected me."

She described how the gunman, Matthew Murray, entered the east entrance of the church firing his gun.

"There was chaos," Assam said, as parishioners ran away.

"I saw him coming through the doors" and took cover, Assam said. "I came out of cover and identified myself and engaged him and took him down."

Assam had several years of experience in law enforcement and is licensed to carry a weapon. She attends one of the morning services and then volunteers as a guard during another service.

"I give credit to God," Assam said. "God was with me. I didn't think for a minute to run away."

 

[SpeedAKL]

I'm a Christian, and I believe that we are not to use violence for means of aggression; however, I fail to see how Scripture prevents us from defending ourselves or those around us from those who want to do evil. If we fail to prevent those who are intent on wanton violence from carrying out terrible things like this, we're simply allowing a sin to take place when we could have done something about it. I have this discussion with my friends all the time; many of them (indeed, many Christians) feel that it is wrong to resist violence or aggression.

Needless to say, said discussions always get me worked up

 

[xpun8]

I am guessing as a security team they are not as organized that private or contract security would be. There would be a lot more concealment of this position with less formal appointment as security.
Most likely she is one of several like minded individuals who mind the store wherever they may be in the building.
One note above about questions on how many and how armed would not be correct questions to answer for any sized organization.

I would agree with everything you said. Maybe not the correct answer to the question, he should have said something like every member serves on the security team.

 

[ReadyontheRight]

It is very nice to see that this was stopped as early as it was. What a hero!

Any idea yet on what guns the murdering idiot and the hero used?

 

[mekender]

according to one of the links posted earlier, the security response protocals in place at that church were set up by one of the forum admins at the Colorado AR-15 Shooters Club...

http://www.co-ar15.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7348

 

[RNB65]

Two articles from the Denver Post.

Note that two other guards were armed but were apparently too scared to fire their weapon. I suppose some folks have the courage to pull the trigger and some don't.

Guard's hands "didn't even shake" as she shot gunman
By Demetria Gallegos The Denver Post
Article Last Updated: 12/10/2007 05:35:56 PM MST

The guard who saved untold lives at New Life Church gives credit to God for giving her cover, and boosting her firepower as she shot a heavily-armed gunman.

"I give credit to God. I say that very humbly," said Jeanne Assam. "God was with me, the whole time I was behind cover. Based on the firepower he had, compared to mine."

Assam spoke at a press conference in Colorado Springs this afternoon. She is one of about 12 armed security officers at New Life Church, according to Pastor Brady Boyd.

She responded when Matthew Murray, 24, began targeting church members in Colorado Springs, after a rampage hours earlier in Arvada in which two missionary training center staff members were killed and two were injured. Two teenagers at New Life were fatally shot, and three others injured before Assam could shoot Murray.

She calmly described how the incident unfolded.

"I heard shots fired, there was chaos," she said. "There was a lot of people in the church. People were running away from shots fired.

"I saw him coming through the doors, and I took cover, and I waited for him to get closer...I identified myself, engaged him, and took him down."

She spoke unemotionally, but the first words she said were in tribute to the victims.

"I just want you to know it's an honor to be here and I want to extend my sympathy to the families of the victims and of the gunman. And I mean that very sincerely," she said.

"I just prayed for the Holy Spirit to guide me my hands weren't even shaking."

Vet lauds female guard who felled gunman
By Kieran Nicholson
The Denver Post
Article Last Updated: 12/10/2007 04:32:06 PM MST

Larry Bourbonnais, a combat-tested Vietnam veteran, said it was the bravest thing he's ever seen.

Bourbonnais, who was among those shot by a gunman Sunday at New Life Church, watched as a security guard, a woman later identified as Jeanne Assam, calmly returned fire and killed the shooter.

"She just started walking toward the gunman firing the whole way," said Bourbonnais, who was shot in the arm. "She was just yelling 'Surrender,' walking and shooting the whole time."

Bourbonnais, 59, had just finished up a hamburger in the cafeteria on the sprawling church campus when he heard gunfire, he recalled.

He headed in the direction of the shots as frightened people ran past him looking to escape to safety.

"Where's the shooter? Where's the shooter?" Bourbonnais kept yelling, he recalled.

Near an entryway in the church, Bourbonnais came upon the gunman and an armed male church security guard who was there with his gun drawn but not firing, he said.

Bourbonnais said he pleaded with the armed guard to give him his weapon.

"Give me your handgun. I've been in combat, and I'm going to take this guy out," Bourbonnais recalled telling the guard. "He kept yelling, 'Get behind me! Get behind me!' He wouldn't hand me his weapon, but he wouldn't do anything."

There was an additional armed security guard there, another man, who also didn't fire, Bourbonnais said.

Bourbonnais yelled at the gunman to draw his attention, he said.

"First, I called him 'Coward' then I called him 'S---head' " Bourbonnais said. "I probably shouldn't have been saying that in church."

That's when the shooter pointed one of his guns at Bourbonnais and fired, he said.

Bourbonnais ducked behind a hollow, decorative pillar and was hit in the arm by a bullet and fragments of the pillar.

At about that moment, Assam, 42, turned a corner with a drawn handgun, walked toward the gunman and yelled "Surrender!" Bourbonnais said.

The gunman pointed a handgun at Assam and fired three shots, Bourbonnais said. She returned fire and just kept walking toward the gunman pressing off round after round.

After the gunman went down, Bourbonnais asked the Assam, a volunteer security guard with the church, how she remained so calm and focused.

Bourbonnais said she replied:

"I was asking the Holy Spirit to guide me the entire time."

 

[rtroha]

According to a witness, two other guards refused to engage the shooter.

Near an entryway in the church, Bourbonnais came upon the gunman and an armed male church security guard who was there with his gun drawn but not firing, he said.

Bourbonnais said he pleaded with the armed guard to give him his weapon.

"Give me your handgun. I've been in combat, and I'm going to take this guy out," Bourbonnais recalled telling the guard. "He kept yelling, 'Get behind me! Get behind me!' He wouldn't hand me his weapon, but he wouldn't do anything."

There was an additional armed security guard there, another man, who also didn't fire, Bourbonnais said.

http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_7683781

Just another example how different people react to a crisis in different ways.

 

[SSN Vet]

"I came out of cover and identified myself and engaged him and took him down."

You go girl!

that's Moxie for ya!



This whole affair is making a big impact on my wife. She e-mailed me at work today when she heard that it was a woman who took down the BG.

I resoponded to tell her that Col. Samual Colt enabled all men and women to stand 6' tall, and that all that was needed was a willingness to learn and the will to do the right thing.

 

[JerryM]

Very interesting. There are many who want the license, and sometimes talk about what they would do under those circumstances. However, when the time comes they are unable to perform.
Suddenly it is not a game or a range practice. I suspect there a lot of CHL holders in the same mindset or lack thereof. Talk is cheap.

Regards,
Jerry

 

[NC-Mike]

CNN is reporting it differently now.

Female worshipper who shot gunman credits God
Jeanne Assam, the female congregant who shot a gunman who entered New Life church Sunday, said she felt weak as she approached him because she had been fasting. "I prayed for the Holy Spirit to guide me, for the Holy Spirit to be with me," she said. "My hands weren't even shaking. I knew what I had to do."

 

[Nightwing]

The term "assault rifle" is being thrown around a on the TV and radio, but another guy that took cover was hit in the shoulder with SHOT! Unless the guy was using shot rounds in his "assault rifle" I'm pretty sure it was a shotgun, as the victim described. BUT... you can't ban assault weapons without saying they did harm, right?

Anyways. She's a hero! But a lot of media is trying to make it sound like the only reason she was armed is because she was a member of the church's security! They fail to mention that she didn't carry BECAUSE she was a guard... she was a volunteer guard because SHE CARRIES and saw it as her duty to volunteer her service as security!
man.. the media wants to promote a gun ban, no matter how positive the outcome. GRRRRRR

 

[Deaf Smith]

I suspect the two guards were in denial. They just could not bring themselves to actually believe it would happen to them. And their indecision just froze them in place.

Keep in mind these are just armed chruch goers, not trained nor inclined to deal out violence.

Which reminds me of the old saying, "Remember when you say it always happens to sombody else that to other people, you are somebody else!"

 

[Kevin_G]

Anyone see the video?

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/14817480/detail.html

 

[xpun8]

Awesome press conference. Good for her. This is the happy ending to a very sad tragedy.

POST #100

 

[XD-40 Shooter]

This woman was a VOLUNTEER member of the "security team", the pastor in his news conference said she usually attends the first service, then provides security for the second service. She was NON-UNIFORMED, NON-COMMISSIONED, UNPAID, AND NOT AN LEO, I REPEAT, NOT AN LEO! This woman has a Colorado CCW permit and she shot the perp with her own personal weapon.

Bottom line folks....this shooting was stopped by an armed citizen, simple as that!

The Brady's won't touch this one because A) the body count wasn't high enough and B) an armed citizen stopped the shooter. This is not what the Brady's want to see, they want 12 dead bodies laying around, so they can dance on their graves and yell "assault weapons ban, assault weapons ban". The Brady's are truly a disgusting bunch of people in how they use these tragedies to advance a political agenda.

 

[.45&TKD]

According to a witness, two other guards refused to engage the shooter......

I suspect the two guards were in denial. They just could not bring themselves to actually believe it would happen to them. And their indecision just froze them in place.

Keep in mind these are just armed chruch goers, not trained nor inclined to deal out violence.

We shouldn't jump to conclusions. She may have come at a different angle, had a different or safe back drop. Her account did say that she came around a corner.

If the gunman had a lot of people directly behind him and the distance was great, I would not have been to quick to fire either. And it was obviously over very fast. It would have been terrible for people to have died from friendly fire. The media would have a field day with that.

 

[riverdog]

This ended as well as could be expected all things considered. Kudo's to Ms Assam, she knew what needed to be done and she didn't falter.

 

[stevereno1]

any functional shooter with a .22 pistol could have stopped the 19 yr old idiot in the mall. Look at the machine gun shooting bank robbers a few years ago, Jeff Copper stated that "anyone with a scoped 22, could have ended that mess" and it's true! carry often, get in the habit of carrying at home, in the car, at the store, etc.. but practice, because a head shot is what the mall idiot, and the church idiot needed.

 

[Mtnvalley]

I have not seen anyone make this point/ask this question, so I will. I am not a big church goer, but I have been in plenty over my lifetime for what ever reasons, and I have never seen a security gurad, much less an armed security guard. I don't know if it's a regional thing or what, but have any of you ever gone a to a church that had an armed security guard?

Our church (which holds 1600 and averages 7-800 on a typical Sunday) has a "security" team. Quotes intentional and contextual.

I don't believe any are armed (even with OC), and there are no requirements (physical, experience or otherwise) for signup. Perhaps two out of the 25 or so that I've seen look as if they'd even be able to go hands-on by themselves. There is no training, other than being advised "keep your eyes open".

One of the church elders who knows that I take a lot of classes recently asked me if I'd help train them in some defensive measures. He said that they'd likely be willing to commit "a whole Saturday" to the training. :banghead: Since I have comparatively little training in H2H myself, don't believe that he was thinking about any weapons (LTL or sidearms) training, and don't care for undue liability, I declined.

They do have some nifty radios with earpieces, though.

 

[Intrepid Dad]

We shouldn't jump to conclusions. She may have come at a different angle, had a different or safe back drop. Her account did say that she came around a corner.

If the gunman had a lot of people directly behind him and the distance was great, I would not have been to quick to fire either. And it was obviously over very fast. It would have been terrible for people to have died from friendly fire. The media would have a field day with that.

I was thinking the exact same thing. I don't blame the others for not taking a shot. It may have been the wisest thing to do given their angle to the shooter.

 

[xpun8]

We shouldn't jump to conclusions. She may have come at a different angle, had a different or safe back drop. Her account did say that she came around a corner.

If the gunman had a lot of people directly behind him and the distance was great, I would not have been to quick to fire either. And it was obviously over very fast. It would have been terrible for people to have died from friendly fire. The media would have a field day with that.

True, think 4 rules. Depending on what was going on beyond BG. The way the Vietnam vet was talking though makes me wonder though. He sounded almost disgusted.

 

[.45&TKD]

The way the Vietnam vet was talking though makes me wonder though. He sounded almost disgusted.

I think he was disgusted with himself for not bringing a gun and was blaming that fact on others. What CCW'er in his right mind would give their weapon away during a gunfight, to a stranger no less?

 

[.45&TKD]

While the bad guys weapons have not been totally disclosed, it sounds like he had an AR-15, or some hi cap rifle, and 2 handguns. It was reported that he had a rifle and 2 hanguns. If it is true that he had 1000 rounds of ammo on him, that especially sounds like .223.

But, when the woman security person went up against him he was shooting a pistol at her. Sounds like she caught him in between reloading the rifle. The other guys that were hanging back prior to this could have been looking at an AR-15 at a beyond handgun distance, that would explain this as well.

Even the woman security person said that she took cover and waited until he got closer. And then the "vet", did draw his fire, which could have given the woman the distraction she needed to approach from a different angle.

Bourbonnais yelled at the gunman to draw his attention, he said.

"First, I called him 'Coward' then I called him 'S---head' " Bourbonnais said. "I probably shouldn't have been saying that in church."

That's when the shooter pointed one of his guns at Bourbonnais and fired, he said.

Bourbonnais ducked behind a hollow, decorative pillar and was hit in the arm by a bullet and fragments of the pillar.

At about that moment, Assam turned a corner with a drawn handgun, walked toward the gunman and yelled "Surrender!" Bourbonnais said.

The gunman pointed a handgun at Assam and fired three shots, Bourbonnais said. She returned fire and just kept walking toward the gunman pressing off round after round.