.30 Carbine versus bear?

[jackdanson]

Several years ago I had a german shepard get into the chicken pen, 3 hits from a 30 carbine to the shoulder/chest from about 15 yds only drove the dog away. BTW I was using soft points. I haven't taken this gun out of the safe since. FWIW: the 25-06 finished the job the next day.

Good first hand info. My want of a .30 carbine has also decreased since I started reading first hand ww2 accounts of rifles/battles. Long story short a german with a .30 carbine hit can still kill you, I'd guess a bear could do the same or better.

Still it is better than nothing at all, and it would also keep the 2 legged predators at bay.

Id take a .30 carbine and a 30 rounder over any pistol or lever gun any day

I'd rather have a .30-30 lever gun myself. A lot more oomph.

 

[JShirley]

If she's comfortable with the little carbine, perhaps a nice Ruger .44 Carbine could be found.

 

[KBintheSLC]

How many shots do some of you think a bear is going to let one take at him? You would likely be lucky to get 2-3 shots off at a attacking bear and probably not that many.

This is true. Bears are extremely fast and powerful animals. They can charge at over 30 mph. In the thick of the woods, that comes at you very, very fast. If you have time to fire off more than a quick double tap, you would be lucky.

That being said, I would rather have a heavier bullet than the average 110gr 30 Carbine. Though the 30 Carbine may have more energy than say a 200gr 10mm Auto. The 200gr pistol round will likely penetrate much deeper. When it comes to bears, penetration is key. You need over 18" worth to be on the safe side.

If you are concerned for her safety in the woods, you might urge her to invest in a bear-worthy sidearm.

 

[barnetmill]

I would suggest relative to a hunting camp with checking with state regulations to see if it is alright to have a cartridge of less than 2 inches that is fired in semiautomatic rifle with a 15 round clip.

The carbine is the best choice for the lady. She is familiar with it and has confidence in it. A charging bear, particularly in the case of grizzly are sometimes not very caliber sensitive. That is they can soak up a lot of lead regardless of the caliber if you did not hit the central nervous system or break some large bones. The carbine is capable of penetrating the skull and the semiauto with 15 round or more in a magazine gives you a better chance as long as you do not spray and pray. While sitting a camp, it is rare to be charged by a bear. The only thing normally to bring a bear would be food or that you have camped on a trail that it normally uses. Yelling and making noise would likely drive it off. I assume that we are not talking about polar bears which are a different story.

For myself I would pick a shortbarreled M14. Heck an old time BAR would be perfect if you could arrange one.

 

[B.D. Turner]

Given a choice I would go with something else. Sure the bear can be killed with a .22 yadda yadda yadda....with good shot placement....Yadda yadda.. If a bear is on your butt keeping a cool head is good advise but in the real world only a few professionals are going to have that skill. I would opt for something that would do the most damage the quickest. Benelli super 90 loaded with slugs would be a much better choice.

 

[jordan1948]

Imagine what kind of effect it would have on a larger, meaner, heavier framed animal than a german soldier.

Is there such a thing?? As for whether or not the carbine is enough to stop a bear I'm not completely sure but I will say it would be better than nothing.

 

[B.D. Turner]

Professional as in Craig Boddington or Jim Shokey. I do not believe either of these men would try a stunt of this kind.

 

[Water-Man]

GAdeerslayer...You should check out the ballistics of a .357Mag fired from a rifle before you make such statements. Look at Buffalo Bore ammo and Double Tap ammo.

 

[Snapping Twig]

I have to reflect earlier suggestions on a 30-30 or perhaps a Mini 30 with 150g SP bullets.

A Marlin Guide Gun in 45-70 downloaded to acceptable levels would work too.

The .30 carbine gained a poor reputation for a reason.

That said, it's a whole lot better than nothing and would feel like the Hammer of Thor in my hands if that was all I had, but I'd move to another firearm if I had the opportunity.

Cast bullets in a .45LC or a .44spl would penetrate quite nicely and are easy on the shooter FWIW.

 

[JShirley]

Here's the little M1.

Here's the Ruger Deerfield .44 Carbine.

(And here.)

If she is comfortable with the M1, she should be quickly comfortable with the Deerfield.

John

 

[19-3Ben]

yes in a carbine. 2000 fps +110 grain =880 ftlbs. 200 more than a .357! smaller bullet + FMJ = penetration. and controled rapid fire = Id take a .30 carbine and a 30 rounder over any pistol or lever gun any day.

No. A Buffalo Bore 180gr. .357mag load comes out of a carbine at 1850fps. But it's a MUCH heavier round, and has much better sectional density. I'd guess that it would penetrate much father than the .30 carbine.
The other thing is that the light little .30carbine round is gonna stop when it hits bones. a 180gr hardcast round at 1850fps is gonna blow right through that sucker.

Given the choice, I'd prefer the larger, heavier bullet.

Heck, it you really wanna get hung up on energy, you can get the 125gr .357mag, which comes out at 2300fps. now you have a heavier bullet, AND more energy. But at this point, i'd say that round loses because it lacks the SD of the 180gr.

 

[ashtxsniper]

A 30 carbine fmj to the brain will quickly stop the biggest bear in existence. Usually they charge you head first so that gives you a nice target. Now if a bear decideds to charge her ass first she might be in trouble.

 

[JShirley]

Okay, that's just silly (charging in reverse). A cranium is sloped and would be moving rapidly. A better bet is a heavier, broader bullet fired from a similar platform.

 

[Rifleman 173]

The best way to kill any kind of bear is with an A-10 Warthog or naval gunfire from afar. A bear having a bad day is like a tractor with teeth coming at you. It will eat you alive. Never mess with any kind of bear. Never.

 

[sadp40]

i have shot large feral hogs

with a 110 soft point .30 carbine. trust me i thought it was a mistake but it was much more effective than i thought. but for a pissed off bear you better have a bayonet mounted on that thing so the bear can use it to pick his teeth.i really would rather have a 45-70 with heavy hard cast bullets.

 

[JShirley]

Any "real" rifle caliber is fine for most black bears, which I understand is what we're talking about here. (Right?)

.357 is borderline, so automatically, .30 Carbine is, as well, but with perhaps even less potential than the .30.

J

 

[rondog]

The only M1 that I personally would use on a bear is my M1 Garand. 8 rounds of 30-06 FMJ should have a reasonable effect, I would think.

 

[JShirley]

Not as much as one would like. 30 caliber is just .30 if it doesn't expand, fragment, or tumble.

 

[Wes Janson]

Kinda surprised no one else has brought it up, but why not an AK variant? Screw bolt or lever action for a non-expert at short range. And I get the impression that price probably is somewhat of an issue. So why not a Saiga 7.62x39?

 

[Ivanimal]

While in Alaska 2 years ago a fishing guide I ran into said he would not use anything but a 12 gauge with slugs. In close quarters he said they work best.

 

[MinnMooney]

Let's put it this way, in many states a .30 Carbine isn't even legal for deer hunting so it's certainly not very good for protection from bears. It's better than throwing rocks but not much.

 

[Eyesac]

Dog or two...

Shot placement! You can kill a bear with a .22! Would I want to try..NO! Ideal bear gun....I don't think there is any!

+1, But I'll add, if it's camp you're looking to defend I'm sure a couple dogs and a carbine and you could do pretty good for yourself.

 

[Kind of Blued]

Jeezy creezy.

CQB bear-fighting tactics aside, as with every other "insert caliber vs. Bear" thread currently running:

Bigger, heavier, faster bullets = Good.
Bigger bears = Bad.
Shooting it as many times with whatever you have as close to it's CNS and vitals as possible = Good.

Considering, if you have a Browning M2 machine gun, offer that.

 

[DEAC25]

I absolutely love my M1 Carbine. It is perhaps my favorite gun to shoot.

It would travel on a camping trip here in Eastern NC with me, but so would my 308 Savage Boltie, along with a 45 and maybe a 357 mag. sidearm.

I would be very concerned if I disturbed a bear and it charged no matter what the situation, but if I only had the M1 I would use it. I would rather have the Savage in 308, but in reality a charging bear is my worst nightmare, having seen it on TV and the net. Shoot, I would hate to have only the 308, (maybe a flamethrower)

As to the 2 legged varmints, I would be totally confident with the M1. I think its penetration is underrated if you hit your target areas.

 

[Shawnee]

Lot to be said for a 12 ga. double-barrel stoked with single-aught buckshot.