308 or 30-06?
- Thread starter viking499
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Quickdraw Limpsalot
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They're both wonderful cartridges and you won't be disappointed with either choice. Arguing over which is better is pointless and exhausting.
BigBuckMaster
member
either or. i would get the .308 if it is your first big-cal rifle. the .308 is easier to control though. good luck, and go with remington 700.
10-Ring
Member
I"ve been going back & forth on this one myself.
I've settle w/ the 30-06 because of the variety of ammo & the idea that I can take bigger game if I put myself in that situation
I've settle w/ the 30-06 because of the variety of ammo & the idea that I can take bigger game if I put myself in that situation
Ben Shepherd
Member
So basically, what everyone's saying is either will work well. AND the thread has stayed civil so far.
Basically, for deer only, the rifle being what YOU want is a more important choice than which of these 2 calibers.
Let us know what you pick. I imagine we're all pretty curious....
Basically, for deer only, the rifle being what YOU want is a more important choice than which of these 2 calibers.
Let us know what you pick. I imagine we're all pretty curious....
Ridgerunner665
Member
krochus,
I agree with you on some of that....powder has to burn to release its energy, but different powders release that energy at different rates of speed (burn rates).
You mentioned Varget and top levels of performance...You will get more speed from RL19, IMR4831, N550.
If you don't believe barrel length and powder burn rate go hand in hand, all you have to do is look at Sierras single shot handgun load data...they list 6 powders for the handgun loads...For the rifle data, they list 21 powders, with the slower powders giving the best velocity.
Some powders are more versatile than others, and Varget is one of them. Varget's burn rate varies depending on load density...In my experience, the hotter the load, the slower it burns.
Reloder 15 (my personal favorite) is also versatile...even more so than Varget. It gives good results out of short or long barrels.
And you're right...I used a bad example (25-06, 270) because they do use very slow powders. But I still stand by what I said, slower powders like RL 19 will give better results (more speed) than the fast ones in 30-06. RL19 in a short 308 don't do so good....
With powders that are ideal for it, the 308 can get up to 2750 FPS with 168 grain bullets out of a 20 inch barrel.
I like the 30-06, I have 2 of them...but the 308 is better in shorter rifles. Its a more efficient round...it nearly matches the 30-06, and does it with several grains less powder. Its also easier on barrels (because of the lighter powder charges).
We are both right...we just don't agree on it.
I agree with you on some of that....powder has to burn to release its energy, but different powders release that energy at different rates of speed (burn rates).
You mentioned Varget and top levels of performance...You will get more speed from RL19, IMR4831, N550.
If you don't believe barrel length and powder burn rate go hand in hand, all you have to do is look at Sierras single shot handgun load data...they list 6 powders for the handgun loads...For the rifle data, they list 21 powders, with the slower powders giving the best velocity.
Some powders are more versatile than others, and Varget is one of them. Varget's burn rate varies depending on load density...In my experience, the hotter the load, the slower it burns.
Reloder 15 (my personal favorite) is also versatile...even more so than Varget. It gives good results out of short or long barrels.
And you're right...I used a bad example (25-06, 270) because they do use very slow powders. But I still stand by what I said, slower powders like RL 19 will give better results (more speed) than the fast ones in 30-06. RL19 in a short 308 don't do so good....
With powders that are ideal for it, the 308 can get up to 2750 FPS with 168 grain bullets out of a 20 inch barrel.
I like the 30-06, I have 2 of them...but the 308 is better in shorter rifles. Its a more efficient round...it nearly matches the 30-06, and does it with several grains less powder. Its also easier on barrels (because of the lighter powder charges).
We are both right...we just don't agree on it.
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High Planes Drifter
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Either will work fine. Out of the 2, I would go with the .06 .
Take a look at the 6.5x55 also for a GP hunting caliber.
Take a look at the 6.5x55 also for a GP hunting caliber.
R.W.Dale
Member
Ridgerunner665
I think we're arguing the same things but from different sides. and I beleive it just depends on where you get your data
I like to cite Hodgon's data center and according to thier data almost across the board the top performer is Varget for 150 to 168g bullets for both cartridges in handguns and rifles.
It's also true that when you drop down to handgun length barrels 308 does begin to have a slight velocity edge, but again this is in a 14" barrel not 20" tubes. I also believe this isn't a direct result of burn rate but rather a more basic function of 308's higher pressure rating.
I believe case capacity, bore case ratio and pressure rating have much more of a bearing on optimum burn rates than bbl length
I think we're arguing the same things but from different sides. and I beleive it just depends on where you get your data
I like to cite Hodgon's data center and according to thier data almost across the board the top performer is Varget for 150 to 168g bullets for both cartridges in handguns and rifles.
It's also true that when you drop down to handgun length barrels 308 does begin to have a slight velocity edge, but again this is in a 14" barrel not 20" tubes. I also believe this isn't a direct result of burn rate but rather a more basic function of 308's higher pressure rating.
I believe case capacity, bore case ratio and pressure rating have much more of a bearing on optimum burn rates than bbl length
Shawnee
member
"Any reason to choose one over the other in a bolt gun? Main use would be hunting deer sized game."
The .308 is a short-action caliber and that may provide you with a little more flexibility in mounting a scope.
With that said - both of them are more blast, recoil and power than anyone needs for hunting deer-sized or elk-sized game.
The .308 is a short-action caliber and that may provide you with a little more flexibility in mounting a scope.
With that said - both of them are more blast, recoil and power than anyone needs for hunting deer-sized or elk-sized game.
Ridgerunner665
Member
Glad we worked that out...
My "go to" data is Sierra...but the reason I say RL 15 will get more speed is from experience...I've tried them all in 308 and nothing will get more speed out of a 308. (loaded to 62k psi...RL15 is at the slow end of the medium burn rate powders)
For 30-06 (22 and 24 inch barrels), again ...from experience, there are 2 powders that give the best speed...RL19 and IMR 4831. (loaded to 60k psi) (as a point of interest...RL15 also does better than Varget in the 30-06...its burn rate is a tad slower than Varget)
The reasons I prefer slower powders are (1) they give more speed and (2) I greatly prefer high load density...105% if I can get it. I like my cases full.
I also use QuickLoad to get load data...it has saved me a small fortune in unused powder.
My "go to" data is Sierra...but the reason I say RL 15 will get more speed is from experience...I've tried them all in 308 and nothing will get more speed out of a 308. (loaded to 62k psi...RL15 is at the slow end of the medium burn rate powders)
For 30-06 (22 and 24 inch barrels), again ...from experience, there are 2 powders that give the best speed...RL19 and IMR 4831. (loaded to 60k psi) (as a point of interest...RL15 also does better than Varget in the 30-06...its burn rate is a tad slower than Varget)
The reasons I prefer slower powders are (1) they give more speed and (2) I greatly prefer high load density...105% if I can get it. I like my cases full.
I also use QuickLoad to get load data...it has saved me a small fortune in unused powder.
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Fella's;'
I can only say about the comment that the .308 has 20% less recoil, that they can't have been shot from the same platform. That means the same maker and model, just a caliber change, same barrel length etc.
I can see someone making the remark after shooting two different guns. What the shooter hasn't realized is that stock design has a large effect upon percieved recoil. So does platform weight. For instance; take six rounds of .338 Winchester magnum factory ammo, 225 grain let's say. Shoot three rounds offhand out of a Ruger stainless synthetic boat-oar stocked gun. Then shoot the other three rounds out of damn near anything else. But, to name names, let's use a Browning stainless stalker.
I confidently predict that you will experience notably different recoil "impressions" from the two platforms. Even "lasting" impressions as it were.
Grin - 900F
I can only say about the comment that the .308 has 20% less recoil, that they can't have been shot from the same platform. That means the same maker and model, just a caliber change, same barrel length etc.
I can see someone making the remark after shooting two different guns. What the shooter hasn't realized is that stock design has a large effect upon percieved recoil. So does platform weight. For instance; take six rounds of .338 Winchester magnum factory ammo, 225 grain let's say. Shoot three rounds offhand out of a Ruger stainless synthetic boat-oar stocked gun. Then shoot the other three rounds out of damn near anything else. But, to name names, let's use a Browning stainless stalker.
I confidently predict that you will experience notably different recoil "impressions" from the two platforms. Even "lasting" impressions as it were.
Grin - 900F
Ridgerunner665
Member
Ok...I'll throw in my 2 cents worth on the recoil. From the same platform, firing the same bullets...the 308 will kick less because it uses a smaller powder charge...it won't be a huge difference, but its a difference none the less.
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Ridgerunner665
Member
I forgot to offer my thoughts on that...so here they are.
Everything in that phrase works together, that's what makes the 308 (and a few others) an "efficient" round.
It may be an old, worn out subject...but its fun to debate anyways...this is how we learn and educate others at the same time.
USSR
Member
Assuming you reload and will be either shooting LR or hunting big game (large bears, elk, moose, etc.), go with the .30-06. Here is my .30-06 LR load:
Lapua or LC M72 Match brass
190SMK bullet
Fed 210M primer
60.7gr RL22 powder
2900fps
30MOA from a 100 yard zero to 1k.
Pick the rifle that fits you better, as both cartridges are suitable for deer sized game.
Don
Legionnaire
Contributing Member
OP asked:
Both are great cartridges. Eventually, you'll probably want both. If I could have only one medium caliber rifle, I'd probably opt for the .308. Nice to have both, though.
Short answer: No, if you are asking about differences in performance on deer-sized game. I'd give a slight edge to the .30-06 for larger game, as it handles heavier bullets better. That said, my personal choice was a .308 for deer. I wanted a small, carbine-length rifle for woods carry and settled on a Remington Model Seven. Because the .308 cartridge has a shorter OAL, you can use a shorter action; it's more about being handy than light weight. To me, that gives the edge to the .308.
Both are great cartridges. Eventually, you'll probably want both. If I could have only one medium caliber rifle, I'd probably opt for the .308. Nice to have both, though.
Vern Humphrey
Member
I'd say the 7mm-08 is a fine contender in the deer hunting game -- all the slight advantages of the .308 (such as shorter action) and flatter shooting with less recoil.
lefteyedom
Member
How many fairies can dances on the head of a pin?
Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
Someone who doesn't reload is probably just as well off with a .308 as an '06, for deer hunting. Odds are, a handloader can have more fun with an '06 than a .308, just because of the variety of "games" to play. Squirrel loads, plinkers, heavy bullets, etc. And, with a 24" to 26" barrel, a couple or three hundred ft/sec more muzzle velocity.
But Bambi won't care about all that.
But Bambi won't care about all that.
Vern Humphrey
Member
Two -- Barnie Frank and his lover, Whatshisface Moses.
For my needs the '06 won out, but I shoot 180gn SPRN since they have tumbled every deer I've hit and they did not get up again.
Doubt you can go wrong with either one, just do your research, pick up the gun you want to buy and if possible, shoot it before you put cash on the barrelhead.
...but do post what you end up buying so we can debate that as well. =)
Doubt you can go wrong with either one, just do your research, pick up the gun you want to buy and if possible, shoot it before you put cash on the barrelhead.
...but do post what you end up buying so we can debate that as well. =)
Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
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Nope. For that use, there's not gonna be a lick of difference - EXCEPT, factory ammo is cheaper in .30-'06, but it comes at the price of ever-so-slightly increased recoil. So throw a dart and pick one - you will be happy. I guess if you are toting it long distances as a "mountain gun" and thus want to go for an ultra-light rifle, the .308's action length shaves off 1/4 to 1/2 lb. Personally, I'd go .30-'06, but just because I like to light a fire under Shawnee.
LMBO! That's a larger belly laught than I deserve.
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