As a guard I carry a 357 4 inch M66. I have thought of either getting a 357 LCR or a G26 as a CCW piece. But many "experts" tell me that a 357 snub is useless and should be avoided. Any thoughts on this? While I like the idea of 10 rounds of 9, 5 rounds of a proven manstopper sounds very well to me. Are the 357 snubs really that bad?
357 Snubs
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ArchAngelCD
Member.
A very light snub nose in .357 Magnum is not a very useful revolver IMO. (like the 12oz S&W Airlite) I own a 23oz S&W M640 and it's very controllable with full power .357 Magnum ammo. My M640 is scary accurate when shooting 145gr Winchester Silvertip .357 Magnum ammo.
Published ballistics from 357 and 44 magnum revolvers are from 8" barrels. Shooting magnum revolver rounds from 2", 3" and 4" barreled revolvers is comparable to shooting a 30-06 with a 6", 9" or 12" barrel. In other words you get a lot of noise and recoil, but not very much performance.
9mm, 40, and 45 ballistic data is taken with 4" and sometimes 5" barrels, much closer to what people actually use. And you'll find the actual bullet speeds you get to be very close to published data. I'm not a fan at all of short barreled revolvers. My Glock 19 is more compact than a 3" revolver, holds 15 shots and will shoot 124 gr bullets faster than a 357 mag will shoot 125 gr bullets from a 3" barrel. Only 50-75 fps slower than from a 4" barrel.
I own, use and happen to like my 357 and 44 revolvers, but they are best used with heavier bullets and longer barrels. If you compare 357 to 38 special, it still beats 38 by a lot, even from shorter barrels. But if someone really needs a compact gun, a semi comparable in size to a G-19 or G26 just makes a lot more sense.
9mm, 40, and 45 ballistic data is taken with 4" and sometimes 5" barrels, much closer to what people actually use. And you'll find the actual bullet speeds you get to be very close to published data. I'm not a fan at all of short barreled revolvers. My Glock 19 is more compact than a 3" revolver, holds 15 shots and will shoot 124 gr bullets faster than a 357 mag will shoot 125 gr bullets from a 3" barrel. Only 50-75 fps slower than from a 4" barrel.
I own, use and happen to like my 357 and 44 revolvers, but they are best used with heavier bullets and longer barrels. If you compare 357 to 38 special, it still beats 38 by a lot, even from shorter barrels. But if someone really needs a compact gun, a semi comparable in size to a G-19 or G26 just makes a lot more sense.
Results of the crab apple test;
At approximately 15 yards I shot at two crab apples.
One was hit with a 38 special out of a Ruger SP101 3" revolver. The bullet pierced through the apple into the back stop, the crab apple itself was barely moved by the impact.
The other was hit with a 357 magnum out of the same revolver. The next five minutes was spent picking bits of crab apple out of my hair and clothing. The largest piece left of the target, being grapefruit sized, was approximately 1" diameter.
Both cartridges were equipped with 140gn xtp bullets.
I wouldn't call the snub useless.
However,
For service or ccw, I'd be very hard pressed to pass up capacity of the 9mm autos. The 9mm has been proven to do the job and doubles your ammo. It may be a source of constant argument over which one is the more effective round when comparing 9mm to 357 mag out of a snub, but what we do know for sure is that 9mm gets the job done and hold twice the ammo. I'd go G26.
At approximately 15 yards I shot at two crab apples.
One was hit with a 38 special out of a Ruger SP101 3" revolver. The bullet pierced through the apple into the back stop, the crab apple itself was barely moved by the impact.
The other was hit with a 357 magnum out of the same revolver. The next five minutes was spent picking bits of crab apple out of my hair and clothing. The largest piece left of the target, being grapefruit sized, was approximately 1" diameter.
Both cartridges were equipped with 140gn xtp bullets.
I wouldn't call the snub useless.
However,
For service or ccw, I'd be very hard pressed to pass up capacity of the 9mm autos. The 9mm has been proven to do the job and doubles your ammo. It may be a source of constant argument over which one is the more effective round when comparing 9mm to 357 mag out of a snub, but what we do know for sure is that 9mm gets the job done and hold twice the ammo. I'd go G26.
returningfire
Member
There is no argument that says a 357 snubbie is ineffective at close range. But it is not a long range gun, nor was it ever intended to be. But go for a heavier one if you think you might have to use it someday, because the lightweight jobs are very difficult to keep on target. If you are just carrying to carry the lightweight jobs are fine.
My son was taking a course in firearm forensics. The instructor advises to quickly determine if the victim was shot with a 38 special or a 357 magnum, look for the exit wound. Usually not an exit wound with a 38 special, but a large one with a 357 magnum.
My son was taking a course in firearm forensics. The instructor advises to quickly determine if the victim was shot with a 38 special or a 357 magnum, look for the exit wound. Usually not an exit wound with a 38 special, but a large one with a 357 magnum.
Godsgunman
Member
Talk about opening a can of worms. I have both a G26 and a 3" Taurus .357 for carry duty. I don't feel out gunned with either. If you want a smaller carry .357 I would suggest a 3" so you aren't losing to much velocity. Also I'm not a fan of the airweights, pretty tough to get back on target quickly enough. Mine is a K frame and still easily concealable. As far as performance, even with just 3" barrel the .357 outperforms the 9mm from the G26s 3 1/2" barrel. These are just from my own tests from different media like water bottles, wetpack, and the occasional pumpkins. Penetration is better with the .357 and just the sheer damage left behind. I know on paper things may look similar between the two but when you see the difference on the target, they aren't so close.
All that said, its ultimately you preference. Like I said the G26 is a good 9mm but I would suggest either pinkie extension for the mags or maybe go with the G19, if you want to go the 9mm route. JMO
All that said, its ultimately you preference. Like I said the G26 is a good 9mm but I would suggest either pinkie extension for the mags or maybe go with the G19, if you want to go the 9mm route. JMO
bigdaa
member
Looks like yours is ported. I bet that adds much to the controlability.A very light snub nose in .357 Magnum is not a very useful revolver IMO. (like the 12oz S&W Airlite) I own a 23oz S&W M640 and it's very controllable with full power .357 Magnum ammo. My M640 is scary accurate when shooting 145gr Winchester Silvertip .357 Magnum ammo.
98Redline
Member
And the noise
ArchAngelCD
Member.
I didn't do the porting, it came that way and was part of a special run by AccuSport. I bought the revolver used because after looking for many months for either a M649 or M640 it was the only one I found at a fair price. I'm glad I bought it because it's an extremely accurate revolver and in reality it doesn't really seem to be any louder than other snub nose .357 Magnum revolvers. Mag-na-port did the porting. They claim no increase in report and if I had to judge by this revolver, they are correct.
BTW, porting only reduces muzzle rise, not felt recoil.
BTW, porting only reduces muzzle rise, not felt recoil.
snooperman
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I have been carrying the Colt magnum carry for the past 13 years and at 22 oz and 6 shots with a bobbed hammer and slick action, I like it the best . It is not made anymore but the S&W 640 is and it is a fine gun too. I prefer carrying mine IWB. My brother-in-law has the 640 and the Centennnial design is a real plus too. If I did not have the Colt, the 640 would be my first choice in this caliber for a CCW.
firesky101
Member
I carry a KLCR and I find the felt recoil about on par with a 4" k-frame. Go shoot one, only you will know if you can control it or the recoil is too much.
Really? What 124gr ammunition are you shooting out of your G19 that chronographs ~1400fps?
Black Knight
Member
One way I have used to figure out if a person was full of something is to ask them if they would like to be hit by the round in question. Usually they change their tune. My wife took my 2 1/2" S&W 66-2 for her gun. I regularly carry a 3" S&W 65-3. The 357 Magnum out of these does lose some muzzle velocity but is still better than a 38 Special +P.
orionengnr
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First off, don't listen to "experts".
Start with some hard data:
http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/
This will allow you to analyze the affect of barrel length on a certain caliber and load, and compare it to other calibers and loads with similar barrel lengths. Best study I have seen on the discussion.
Doesn't mean I will trust my life to either one.
Start with some hard data:
http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/
This will allow you to analyze the affect of barrel length on a certain caliber and load, and compare it to other calibers and loads with similar barrel lengths. Best study I have seen on the discussion.
Lack of critical thinking skills. I wouldn't volunteer to be hit by a round fired from a BB gun, or even a thrown rock.
Doesn't mean I will trust my life to either one.
I've had several snubbie 357's, but the one I enjoyed the most was the 3" SP101. I chronographed a number of loads through it and really the ballistics between a 3" and 4" aren't much different.
3" Ruger SP101 .357 Magnum:
135gr Speer Gold Dot Short Barrel avg'd 1100 fps (claims 990 fps...not a full powered load)
125gr Golden Sabre avg'd 1240 fps (claims 1225fps...not a full powered load)
110gr Corbon (Gold Dot) avg'd 1380 fps
125gr Remington JSP: 1451 fps AVG
145gr Winchester SilverTip JHP: 1255 fps avg
I would suggest something with a little heft. Yes it's not as easy to carry, but I've owned 12oz S&W's that more or less felt like getting smacked with a 2x4 everytime you pulled the trigger. The heavier SP101 was easy to shoot.
3" Ruger SP101 .357 Magnum:
135gr Speer Gold Dot Short Barrel avg'd 1100 fps (claims 990 fps...not a full powered load)
125gr Golden Sabre avg'd 1240 fps (claims 1225fps...not a full powered load)
110gr Corbon (Gold Dot) avg'd 1380 fps
125gr Remington JSP: 1451 fps AVG
145gr Winchester SilverTip JHP: 1255 fps avg
I would suggest something with a little heft. Yes it's not as easy to carry, but I've owned 12oz S&W's that more or less felt like getting smacked with a 2x4 everytime you pulled the trigger. The heavier SP101 was easy to shoot.
Confederate
Member
True. If you're going to be shooting further than a hundred yards, I would definitely choose a longer barrel. I have a hand tremor problem that makes me holding a long barrel on target difficult. I used to shoot those orange clay pigeons at a hundred yards and if I couldn't hit one, I could hit the person holding it!
I've been astounded by the accuracy of my Ruger Security-Six snub. I just can't shoot full throttle rounds in great numbers, especially now with the availability problems. As far as stopping power, I don't know of a better one-shot stop round than a SJHP 125gr. It doesn't matter if it's a snubbie or a 6-inch, at any range you can hit someone he's in trouble. And at close range, if you miss him, the fireball will undoubtedly get his attention. Just don't shoot these guns out of a coat pocket like you see in the movies!
The Rugers are great .357 snubbies with the size and weight of
S&W K-frames, but the durability of L-frames.
.
From what I've read the LCR 357 is not too pleasant with full house loads. I've never fired that particular model so my opinion is basically hearsay, in layman's terms.... buffalo chips.
I prefer the 4", but there are times when a snub is the best choice.
The only one I own is the SP 101. A great little revolver. I wouldn't go any smaller/lighter for a 357. It's a handful, but manageable.
I prefer the 4", but there are times when a snub is the best choice.
The only one I own is the SP 101. A great little revolver. I wouldn't go any smaller/lighter for a 357. It's a handful, but manageable.
Sergei Mosin
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What is your preferred mode of concealed carry?
You see, for me a snubnose revolver is a pocket gun. My .357 LCR is the biggest and most powerful gun I can carry in my pockets; some folks can manage a G26 in some pants, but they seem to be in the minority.
Now if I'm carrying concealed on my belt, I'm carrying something bigger than either a snub or a G26.
If you want to pocket carry, see if your pockets can take a G26. The baby Glock does have a decided firepower advantage over the LCR, but that does no good if it doesn't fit in your pocket.
If you want to carry on your belt, there are countless options with more firepower than either the LCR or the G26.
You see, for me a snubnose revolver is a pocket gun. My .357 LCR is the biggest and most powerful gun I can carry in my pockets; some folks can manage a G26 in some pants, but they seem to be in the minority.
Now if I'm carrying concealed on my belt, I'm carrying something bigger than either a snub or a G26.
If you want to pocket carry, see if your pockets can take a G26. The baby Glock does have a decided firepower advantage over the LCR, but that does no good if it doesn't fit in your pocket.
If you want to carry on your belt, there are countless options with more firepower than either the LCR or the G26.
gamestalker
member
By no means would I label a .357 snub as useless, by no means. I own a couple of snubby S&W 66's and shoot my own loads, (296 / H110), with either 140 gr. XTP's or 158's, Gold Dots & XTP's. As a matter of fact I was out today and ran them across my chronograph. I got from 1459 to 1486 from the 140's. And the 158's were 1353 to 1378. I get a bit more out of the 6" barrels, but not a huge improvement, maybe 25 fps or so.
As for penetration, I have done penetration tests using rolled up wet denim approx. 16" in a lined box filled with water. Both the 140's and 158's go completely though the 16" water / denim filled box and fully expand as well. I don't know how this test compares, but I sure wouldn't want to be a bad guy on the receiving end.
GS
As for penetration, I have done penetration tests using rolled up wet denim approx. 16" in a lined box filled with water. Both the 140's and 158's go completely though the 16" water / denim filled box and fully expand as well. I don't know how this test compares, but I sure wouldn't want to be a bad guy on the receiving end.
GS
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