357 Supermag or 45 ACP for Bear?

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Fatelvis

Fatelvis

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Please help me out....
A good friend of mine is taking his wife and two young boys on vacation to Colorado. He has rented a cabin way up in the mountains, very remote, with his own pond. He asked if he could borrow one of my handguns, just as a precaution, to leave in the cabin, in case its needed for bears. He also agreed to going to the range with me twice before going, (hes leaving July 1), to get familiar with the gun. He has gone shooting with me in the past, but is still pretty inexperienced. Problem is, I dont own anything that would be considered a great choice for bear. The three best options are my Dan Wesson 357 SM w/8" bbl., (using my 215grn Kieth style cast loads for IHSMA shooting), a Sig 220 in 45 ACP, or a Colt 1991 in 45 ACP. I was thinking 230 Hardball would be the best in that caliber due to it's deep penetration. He's laid off, as am I, and neither of us can run out and buy a 44, 454, or 50. Please let me know which you think is the best bet for defence, and his limited firearms experience.
 
The Supermag, but a 12 GA is better. Give him your 12 GA.
 
robhof

Of the guns you mentioned; the 357SM would have the best penetration, and that is what you need for bear, but personally I would use a shotgun with slugs if that were a choice. Tell him to be alert and also get bear spray and use the gun as a last resort.
 
first choice: Pump shotgun with slugs, second choice: a 10mm Glock, third: either of the .45's, more capacity, quicker reloads than a revolver, although I would feel alright with the revolver if needbe, just privy to autos.
 
He has been shooting with me before, and shot suprisingly well. He is pretty sharp, and uses his head. I trust his judgement, enough to lend him my gun.
 
first choice: Pump shotgun with slugs, second choice: a 10mm Glock, third: either of the .45's, more capacity, quicker reloads than a revolver, although I would feel alright with the revolver if needbe, just privy to autos.
Click to expand...

Quicker reloads, for bear, seriously? Bwaaaaa, ha, ha! You gonna fast rope out a Blackhawk or HALO in? Just wonderin'. :rolleyes: Revolvers are generally more accurate and powerful and all you need in the woods, unless the woods are in North Korea.
 
A can of bear spray
and a good sense of fear
MUCH safer that being cocky in the woods

If he wants to borrow a gun, good, but don't blame it on the bears
 
You know Shadow, your response is not the kind I was looking for. Nobody is blaming bears. He has a good sense of fear, and that is why he wants a definate defense, should he need it. He is, after all, responsible for the safety of his family, (when you get out of college, and have a family of your own, you'll understand),and he isnt the type to be trudging around the hillsides being cocky with a gun on his hip. I let him know, that first talking loudly to the bear is best, then pepper spray if it still seems intent on advancing, and then the gun is a last resort. I would definately have bear spray and a gun as a backup, if I were in his shoes. Now, back to the question.......What caliber would be best?
 
Thanks,
I pm'd you,

A brain keeps you safe, not a gun, it makes you cocky
bear spray saves you many headaches and legal troubles, and is easier for the wife, if she isn't happy about a gun around the kids.

http://wildlife.alaska.gov/index.cfm?adfg=bears.main
http://www.bing.com/search?q=safe+in+bear+country&form=IE8SRC&src=IE-SearchBox
http://www.mountainnature.com/Wildlife/Bears/BearCampingTips.htm
http://www.adn.com/2010/06/04/1308517/bear-awareness-event-tonight-at.html

So you see a gun doesn't fix stupid
But, if you do carry, a shot gun, with a full stock and short barrel

Now if you suprise a bear, or otherwise encounter one
Yeah, it happens, and if you know how to react you get to walk away, and VERY rarely is it blazing away with the old pistol

SO, if you tend to the "UNLOAD AS FAST AS POSSIBLE, RUN AWAY WHILE RELOADING" school

Two things,
first, you will stumble, then you better hope the bear is DEAD, and not just wounded and pissed,
second, Fish and Game will be up your behind and heading for you mouth,

Pepper spay allows you to do the above with two great advantages,

First you dont have to deal with the cops meaning less time and money

second, you stand a greater chance of survival
 
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"...Give him your 12 GA..." Yep. With slugs. No buckshot of any kind. An inexperienced shooter can make one work and have a far better chance of hitting with it. Not so with any handgun. A .45 ACP, with any ammo, will just wound a bear and create the serious situation of a wounded bear. Even a black bear.
Send him here. http://www.mnr.gov.on.ca/en/Business/Bearwise/index.html
Mind you, if he's afraid of bears, he should stay home. Yogi isn't interested in people. Properly dealing with garbage is far more important than having a curious bear wander by.
An inexperienced shooter is better off with an air power horn. Can of air with a horn attachment. Spraying means he's far too close.
 
If the man needs a gun to protect his family why doesn't he buy one? Tell him to buy a shotgun. You can get a good pump shotgun for a few Hundred dollars or a single shot break-open for under $100. IMO you shouldn't have to supply his protection even though you are a good friend. A shotgun and bear repellent spray is his best way to go IMO.
 
If he's been laid off then what's he doing renting a cabin in Colorado :)

I'd go with the .357 magnum, very simple to use and it's got some good power behind it too depending on your loads there.

BTW .357 Supermag is the same as .357 Maximum, correct?
 
The guy needs his own gun

I agree, tell him to get an 870 or Mossy, 12 or 20. 20 guage slugs penetrate as well or better than 12 - better sectional density. Definately easier to control. He could get a few boxes of clays and make a point to show his boys how to shoot. Empty water bottles and coke cans would be a good time. Is he going to bring a small safe to lock your handgun in? A shotty can be locked up with all kinds of locks, as can a pistol or revolver. Anyway, he feels he needs a gun; he should buy one and you being a friend and more experinced should help him get what he needs to keep his family safe. I let my friends hoot my guns when we go shooting together only. I'd feel really bad if my friend lost a son because it was'nt properly secured - even if he was responsible for it at the time (and was intelligent like you mentioned in your post).
 
This one is easy....

Bear Bells (don't laugh...they work!)
Bear Spray
Good Dog!

You'll never see one!!!

But...if your friend insists, give him your P 220 with alternating HP and Slug in same mag... That's what I carry when hiking...and haven't seen a bear in years!!!
 
Anyone take a look at this new .45ACP load from DT.............

Caliber : .45 ACP+P

Bullet : 255gr. Keith Style SWC Hardcast Lead

Ballistics : 875fps - 434 ft./lbs. - 5" bbl.
 
Anyone take a look at this new .45ACP load from DT.............

Caliber : .45 ACP+P

Bullet : 255gr. Keith Style SWC Hardcast Lead

Ballistics : 875fps - 434 ft./lbs. - 5" bbl.
Click to expand...



Yawn.....one can get well over 500 ft lbs from +P loads in .45ACP, but I'd rather go with 800 ft lbs using a 165 grain hard cast gas checked wide flat SWC from my Blackhawk in .357 magnum for game killing. .45ACP is not impressive for field use. 357 shoots flat enough and powerful enough for up to 100 yard shots at deer and hog, though I try to keep it to 50 or not much more with iron sights. But, that load is still putting up 600 ft lb neighborhood at 100 yards, more than the .45ACP at the muzzle and I've field tested it on hogs and deer.

For self defense, 100 yard performance is not an issue, but even up close, even with a 4" barrel, I'll take the .357 magnum over the .45ACP all day long and twice on Sunday. Now, step up to the .45 Colt and we have another discussion, but the .45ACP is a service caliber, not a hunting or outdoor caliber. It can work and at close range, on black bear, with well placed shots and hot SWC hard cast loads, I don't doubt it WILL work if that's your choice. I've never shot anything with my .45ACP other than hogs in a trap, so I can't really say more than my opinion on the caliber. My Ruger P90 in the caliber is certainly accurate enough for 50 yard hunting, just that I have better calibers and guns for such things. If I really get serious I'll load up with 300 grain .45 colt handloads out of my 4 5/8" Blackhawk. It's instant death to hogs, sure it wouldn't bounce off a black bear. I've killed a couple of hogs with it using a light charge (8.3 grains) of unique under a 255 grain flat nose. Those hogs weren't large. It worked. That load is closer to .45ACP territory. It clocks about 950 from the muzzle, which is a bit more than the load you list from a .45ACP. It'll work, though, so I figure the .45ACP would work, just that i prefer the magnum to the .45ACP. It's more power, flatter trajectory, in a handy field gun. Besides, I like revolvers and have a revolver bias.
 
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Colorado "only" has has Black Bear (No Browns or Grizzlies): let him borrow the .357. However, if he goes hiking lugging an 8-inch-barrel revolver will get real old real fast.

You also need to factor Mountain Lions into this equation and the most likely scenario: two-legged jack asses.

I lived in Colorado for 20 years and I always carried a Ruger GP-100 .357 in the mountains.

The final decision should be based on what he shoots the best.
 
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