.45 vs .357 buffalo boar for bear defense

Status
Not open for further replies.
D.B. Cooper said:
If it will make you feel better, there is a story up here in AK bout a guy who killed a brown bear on Kodiak island with a Buck 110 folding hunter lock-back pocket knife. Supposedly, the bear stood up, and fell upon the guy at the same moment the guy thrust his knife, all the way to back end of the handle into the bear as they fell. The knife happened to slip between the bear's ribs and straight into his heart.

Don't know if it's true or not, but it makes a heck of a g good story.
Click to expand...
Don't Know if a bear has ever been killed with one but there is a story of a man who used a buck model 110 to fight his way back to the rifle, love the model 110 still to this day my edc. heres the link to the story
http://www.outdoorlife.com/node/1006026187
 
I'd use the Buffalo Bore +P .45 ACP 255 grain hard cast. I have fired the 180 grain .357 hard cast in a Ruger SP101 and it was painful. Follow up shots would be unlikely.

Here is a link to a test thread. In that thread there is a link to another test done by a guy using a 1911 pattern gun. That guy (with the 1911) has taken large Alaskan game, including bears, with handguns.
http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/10273160/
 
I would (and regularly do) take the .357 because:
1. much better penetration, and a big, sharp meplat
2. revolvers are more panic-proof (charging bears can get up to 30MPH)
3. at contact range, the revolver is less vulnerable
 
Statistics tell us we are more likely to be struck and killed by lightning than attacked and killed by Black Bear. One should probably wear a lightning rod on their head and make sure they are grounded at all times when outdoors. Those same statistics tell us we are more likely to be killed in a car accident on the way to Yosemite than by a Black Bear while there. Maybe folks should stay home and not drive. I am not chastising anyone for being prepared, just saying that this whole "what gun for black bear?" is not what most folks make it out to be. I've lived in Black Bear country all my life and have never thought twice about not going into the woods without some form of firearm. I've found being aware of your surroundings and avoiding scenarios that will get you in trouble work just as well as any gun against Black Bears. Proper food storage while camping and proper elimination of food wastes. Making noise as you walk to avoid surprising a bear or getting between a sow and her cubs. Odds are you will be at more of a risk from two legged predators than from Black Bear......so take what you need for them. Take some bear Spray too and know how to use it.
 
I cannot comment about which of those guns is better for bear, but I can give some guidance that applies to all semi-auto handguns.

You should never rely on a semi-auto unless it has been thoroughly tested with the ammunition you intend to use. All semi-autos can potentially jam due to changes in bullet shape, power, or cartridge overall length. I consider 50 rounds to be the minimum for testing new ammo, and I prefer 200 rounds.

A revolver is not sensitive to ammo in the same way. I still recommend testing carry ammo in a revolver, but you are really just testing that the primers ignite and the point of aim is reasonable. So 20 rounds is acceptable for testing ammo in a revolver.

Not sure whether this advice will affect your choice in this case.
 
I would choose the revolver for more definite function. You'll only get a couple shots at most if the worst happens. Once they are down, you can finish the job with another round or two.
 
California has some very strict and often confusing laws about carrying handguns, either concealed or openly. As you are a non-resident, I STRONGLY suggest you get in touch with the Calif. Dept. of Justice and find out what the various laws are and how they affect you. If you disobey the anti-gun laws there, if caught with your handgun, you will find yourself in a lot of trouble.

I lived there for 36 years. I know what I am talking about.

Good luck.

L.W.
 
DownInTheDark said:
Everyone freaks out thinking bears are bullet proof. They are not. I'd personally take the 357 mag over the 45.
Last Spring I went bear hunting with a 30-30. You don't need a 338 Lapua like everyone says.
Click to expand...

OH MY GOD!!! The voice of reason, crying in the wilderness!!!!

You, sir, are my hero.
 
Oh no, those bears are half kryptonite and half Kevlar. I heard about a bear in Russia that died of old age and when they found his bones there was an undetonated RPG in the bone pile.
 
Leanwolf said:
California has some very strict and often confusing laws about carrying handguns, either concealed or openly. As you are a non-resident, I STRONGLY suggest you get in touch with the Calif. Dept. of Justice and find out what the various laws are and how they affect you. If you disobey the anti-gun laws there, if caught with your handgun, you will find yourself in a lot of trouble.

I lived there for 36 years. I know what I am talking about.

Good luck.

L.W.
Click to expand...

I agree, CA the nightmare that I'm about to spend 2 weeks in! So I've been in touch with a few Rangers, and park websites. We will be in the National/State parks (only state in the country to have National Parks run by State Management!!!:cuss::what::confused::mad::fire:)

So into CA, I will have it locked in trunk, separate from locked ammo, ect......

But as soon as we're in the park President Obama made law (not that he wanted to) that you may carry.
 
I love how at the mention of bears people immediately start talking about how unlikely an attack is and how bear spray is preferred. It's totally irrelevant to the question asked by the OP, and personally I don't carry based on likelihood of attack? I carry a gun because there is a possibility, however small, that I will need one. I don't need any stats to tell me it's better to have a gun and never need it than to rely on mathematics to protect myself and my family.

Scenario: Bear is starving and desperate for food, and decides to eat you or family member. Bear starts to charge.
"Stop! Statistically speaking you shouldn't be attacking!" Bear proceeds to eat Timmy.

Could bear spray deter the bear? Probably, and it's good to bring it along.

However, since this is a gun forum, and the OP shoots his 1911 better than his 357, I believe he should carry the 1911 with heavy ammo like the BB stuff mentioned earlier. Personally I'd go with 180 grain ammo in my 686+, but only because I am a pretty good shot with it, and I shoot it pretty fast.

Any who, have fun in California. The redwoods are on my list.
 
Last edited:
460Shooter said:
I love how at the mention of bears people immediately start talking about how unlikely an attack is and how bear spray is preferred. It's totally irrelevant to the question asked by the OP, and personally I don't carry based on likelihood of attack? I carry a gun because there is a possibility, however small, that I will need a one. I don't need any stats to tell me it's better to have a gun and never need it than to rely on mathematics to protect myself and my family.

Scenario: Bear is starving and desperate for food, and decides to eat you or family member. Bear starts to charge.
"Stop! Statistically speaking you shouldn't be attacking!" Bear proceeds to eat Timmy.

Could bear spray deter the bear. Probably, and it's good to bring it along.

However, since this is a gun forum, the OP shoots his 1911 better than his 357, so I believe he should carry the 1911 with heavy ammo like the BB stuff mentioned earlier. Personally I'd go with 180 grain ammo in my 686+, but only because I am a pretty good shot with it, and I shoot it pretty fast.

Any who, have fun in California. The redwoods are on my list.
Click to expand...

It's like you understand me!!! :)
 
Yo Mama said:
But as soon as we're in the park President Obama made law (not that he wanted to) that you may carry.
Click to expand...

Doublecheck that - my understanding is that you can carry in a US park only if you are permitted to carry in that state. Without CA reciprocity, or a resident permit, you are breaking the law, as I understand it. Open carry in CA was repealed several years ago. But I am not a CA resident, so you might want to confirm all this.
 
roscoe said:
Doublecheck that - my understanding is that you can carry in a US park only if you are permitted to carry in that state. Without CA reciprocity, or a resident permit, you are breaking the law, as I understand it. Open carry in CA was repealed several years ago. But I am not a CA resident, so you might want to confirm all this.
Click to expand...
I believe you are correct. Carrying in a National Park is permissible as long as the carrier is legal to carry in that state, and abides by the state's laws in which the park is located. At least that's how it originally went down. May have changed in the mean time.

Google powers......... ACTIVATE!
 
357 is a powerful round. I would got for whatever platform gives you more firepower.
For this reason I think the 10mm in a super reliable pistol like a glock or sig would be hard to beat.
Buffalo bore offers 10mm slugs too.
If you like 9mm there is the 9x25 dillon but in this case for this type of role I would keep it simple and bet on the 10mm grain and speed.
 
I have a hunch that many who would buy the BB loads would not shoot enough to properly test them in a particular semi auto.
They are quite spendy and probably hotter than what gets typically shot.
Everyone has their own number but I would think one would want to shoot 3-4 boxes and maybe go with heavier springs.
A revolver can have its issues as well but if it's clean a couple cylinders should prove reliability.
 
pintler said:
"Thanks, but im looking forward to the trip: redwoods and Yosemite."

If you have a California permit, nevermind (FWIW, I'd take the 357, but either should work for blackies).

If you don't have a California permit, I don't think you can carry legally in CA National Parks. Carry in National Parks is regulated by state law, so it's legal here in WA with a permit, but I don't think CA allows permitless open carry. I'm not from CA, so apologies if I'm mistaken.
Click to expand...

What about shotguns? Kind of bulky but a 12 shoottie would do. I wonder if in California that would be legal. Open carry?

Well I looked it up.. California has many laws, some even conflict with others. It's a maybe-if-and situation in that state. Glad I live in Texas!!!

Deaf
 
Last edited:
Yo Mama said:
Hello everyone. We are planning on going on an extended trip where black bears are known to frequent. I really only have two options to carry a handgun on the trip, so please do not suggest a larger caliber as of course I would love to have a 44 Magnum but it's not in the cards. My choices are strictly 45 ACP in a 1911, or a 357 revolver 6 shots.

I am planning on getting Buffalo Bore rounds, and yes the ballistics on the 357 look superior however I have a few concerns. First I have six shots in the 357 as opposed to 9 in the 1911. More of a concern of mine however is permanent hearing damage that would be caused by the 357 in close-quarters proximity with my family, as opposed to the temporary discomfort of the 45. Also I'm a much better shot with the 1911.

Not sure if I should also put ease of a mag chance in the equation of a charging bear....but there is the reloading speed.

So what gets the nod: revolver in 357 or 1911 in 45?
Click to expand...

.45acp with premium bullets should be plenty for defense against black bears.
 
Both the .357 and .45acp have stopped grizzly attacks in recent years in National Parks. The .357 stopped the attack after bells, whistles, shouting, and bear spray failed. Only blood was found, not the bear. The hiker/shooter was initially charged with firing a gun in NP, but charges were later dropped.

In the .45acp case the grizzly was actually killed, saving the man and woman. The gun had more capacity than a 1911, and he used them all.

Either of your choices should be fine.
 
Penetration rules. A 357 mag with 180-200 gr bullets out penetrates anything 45 ACP has to offer by a substantial margin. Bear have been stopped by all manner of guns and knives. A camper here in GA killed a 300 lb bear a few years ago with a stick of firewood with a blow to it's head. Just because someone has used a 45 or any other gun in the past doesn't make it the best option. Any 45 ACP would be far down on my list of suitable guns. Of your 2 choices 357 mag gives you the best odds of survival.
 
Yeah so double check this as I've been out of that state for long enough to lose track of the most recent insanity, but:

In California you can have a loaded gun in your residence. That has long been accepted to include tents or even RVs (motor vehicles, which would otherwise be off limits) while camping. Outside the tent, though, you are "in public" and your carry options are far more limited. Basically you cannot carry a loaded gun, and even unloaded guns can only be carried in specific circumstances. E.g. if you have a hunting or fishing licence and are engaged in those activities, and in a place that doesn't ban them. State parks are off limits, and I don't know about state run national parks.

You should be fine having it unloaded and locked in the trunk of your car, and fine bringing it into your tent at night, but beyond that? A lot of potential for legal trouble, and not a lot of offsetting benefit.

If you did shoot a bear (the animal on the state flag) you would have a lot of people looking for a way to skin you. Most Californians would be more upset about you shooting a bear than a person.

That said...the semi auto would be my choice for logistical reasons (ease of loading from empty in a rush).
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

American_Fusilier
Bear defense pistols: .357 or .45acp. Pick one!
2 3 4 5
Replies
107
Views
4K
crestoncowboy
C
H
  • Locked
Does the "old 357" have more punch than the acp 45 ?
2
Replies
48
Views
3K
Stevie-Ray
Stevie-Ray
T
  • Locked
.357 or .45?
2
Replies
49
Views
3K
iliketoshootguns
I
S
  • Locked
.357 Mag vs. .45
Replies
17
Views
1K
Sharpie1
S
N
  • Locked
Who likes .45 and .357?
2
Replies
32
Views
1K
cookekdjr
C
Back
Top