357 vs 10mm which one?

[OilyPablo]

Get both.

The Glock 20 is much more versatile, .40SW, 10mm, 357SIG, 9X25.

9X25 v. .357Mag anyone?

The Glock will be better and more fun for plinking. The above barrels in the 6" variety and get the LW long slide .

I love the .357Mag, especially flame throwing in a revolver and in my 1892.

Hunting is good. But the other 360 days are important.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I thought the 10mm was developed to mimic the .41 Magnum. Why is everyone trying to compare the 10mm to a .357 Magnum?

In my state no semi-autos are legal for hunting, handguns or long guns so a Glock is out of the question, not that I would hunt deer with a Glock anyway.

There are so many types of handguns because there are a lot of different jobs that have to be done. IMO a Glock is not a deer gun but a nice 6" plus revolver would do just fine in .357 Magnum or bigger.

 

[357 Terms]

thought the 10mm was developed to mimic the .41 Magnum. Why is everyone trying to compare the 10mm to a .357 Magnum?

The 10mm is nowhere near a "true" 41 mag.

The 10mm and 357 are very close.

The 357 is just much easier in every regard to find (platforms, ammo, effective ammo)

go with the 357.

 

[Deaf Smith]

Well, while I prefer .44 magnum for deer, 10mm 220 gr. at 1200 will work just as .357 180 gr at 1400 (buffalo bore ammo) so to me it's just what you prefer to shoot.

Revolver? Semi-auto?

I'm a wheelgun man as for woods guns but either will do.

Deaf

 

[JohnKSa]

I thought the 10mm was developed to mimic the .41 Magnum. Why is everyone trying to compare the 10mm to a .357 Magnum?

Well, there is some truth to your comment, but it's not exactly in the sense you mean it.

The .41 Magnum was not intended to be what it ended up being. The original intent of the folks who pushed the development of the cartridge wanted it to be a round that was suitable, even ideal for law enforcement and self-defense. Instead, the gun companies turned it into a near twin of the .44Mag which already existed but was generally considered too powerful for LE and self-defense.

When the 10mm came around, it was pretty much designed to be what the .41Magnum had originally been meant to be. Unlike the .41Mag, it ended up being pretty close to the original design concept.

Ok, all that aside, the 10mm is NOWHERE near the .41Mag in performance. It is true that the Winchester 10mm STHP is about the same as the Winchester .41Mag STHP in terms of energy, but that is only true because the .41 Mag STHP is a very light .41Mag loading. It's down close to what the folks who had the original .41Mag concept intended it to be.

If you survey the loadings available for the .41Mag vs. the 10mm and the .357Mag it immediately becomes apparent that the .41Mag is in an entirely different performance class than the other two and that the 10mm and the .357Mag are very similar--nearly identical in performance. You can get a little more momentum out of the 10mm and a little more energy out of the .357Mag, but neither difference is enough to quibble over.

 

[Saleen322]

I thought the 10mm was developed to mimic the .41 Magnum.

A full power 10mm out of a revolver is close to a .41 Magnum revolver with a similar length barrel but the .41 Mag will usually still have an edge. Boutique .41 magnum loads will be more powerful. Seeing 900 ft/lbs from a 10mm revolver is possible but you will likely have to load something like that yourself as much of the 10mm ammo is tuned down. SAAMI MAP for the 10mm is 37.5K which is a little higher than max for a .41 mag which helps in generating energy. They are both good calibers but 10mm ammo and brass are generally easier to find. However to get back to the OP, .357 mag is easier to find than either the .41 mag or 10mm.

 

[JohnKSa]

A full power 10mm out of a revolver is close to a .41 Magnum revolver with a similar length barrel...

.41Mag tops out close to 1100ft/lbs, the 10mm just below 800ft/lbs

Top loads in the .41Mag have about a third more muzzle momentum than the hottest 10mm loads.

Seeing 900 ft/lbs from a 10mm revolver is possible but you will likely have to load something like that yourself as much of the 10mm ammo is tuned down.

Even if you look at the boutique loadings for the 10mm, there's nothing that gets close to 900ft/lbs of energy. I agree you'll have to load something like that yourself because no manufacturer is going to exceed SAAMI by as much as it takes to do it.

And even if you decide to take the risk, you'll still be about 200ft/lbs short of the .41Mag.

SAAMI MAP for the 10mm is 37.5K which is a little higher than max for a .41 mag which helps in generating energy.

7% more allowable pressure in the 10mm is not going to make up for the fact that the .41Mag has over 40% more usable case volume.

There are two ways to get the 10mm even close to the .41Mag. Load the .41Mag very lightly or load the 10mm above SAAMI max.

 

[jmr40]

41 mag handily beats 10mm when fired from 8" barrels vs a 10mm fired from 4-5" barrels. When 41's, 44's and 357's are fired from more common 4" barrels the best 10mm loads will match anything 41 mag will do with a 4" barrel and easily beat a 357 from a 4" or shorter barrel. Comes closer to 44 mag than most understand.

Barrel length is everything here. It should also be noted that the overall length of a 4" revolver is about 2" longer overall and close to a pound heavier than a G-20. As said earlier, for hunting, buy a long barreled magnum revolver. If you want a smaller,more compact gun with about the same level of power 10mm wins.

A 4.5" barreled G-20 beside a 3" barreled 629. When fired from the 3" barrel the 44 mag loads just barely outperform Double Tap 200 gr 10mm loads. 10mm/200gr/1315 fps vs 44mag/240gr/1150 fps. Those are real numbers run over my chronograph.

 

[wild willy]

Since you said you would like to buy the Glock 20.Get it. You have the GP100.Shoot em both for a year then decide

 

[Saleen322]

Two of my favorite loads loads for the 10mm are a 180 XTP @ 1252 fps and a 208 SWC @ 1175 fps. I have other revolvers if power is what I need but a 10mm has a lot left on factory ammo. A lot of reloading manuals, Lyman for example, show max for a lot of 10mm loads in the 29K range. My 10mms are more accurate with loads above but I have shot loads in testing as fast as a 208 grain bullet @ 1413 fps which makes 922 ft/lbs at that. It is not a load that I would use as it was grouping over 3" @ 25 yards. My guess is it is too fast for a non-gas check bullet.

The case still showed no signs of pressure, easy extraction, no primer cratering, no shoulder squaring of the primer however it is still not something I would use as that same bullet @ 1175 fps will group under 2" @ 25 yards. To me accuracy trumps velocity and there is nothing a 1400 fps round will do that a 1175 fps one can't.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

A GP 100 is a great gun that fires a great cartridge. But if in your shoes, I'd get a 10mm too.

Why not?

 

[ku4hx]

How many rounds does it take to bring down a deer at close range? Or do you use the pistol to tenderize the meat?

Neither young Jedi. Just stating the obvious within a culture that is sometimes obsessed with "high" capacity.

 

[Plan2Live]

Stating the obvious, I challenge the average shooter or Jedi master to get more than one round on target on a deer in the wild with a pistol, any pistol, even at twenty yards. A Sith might be able to pull that off but there aren't many of those around and they don't ask for weapons advice.

 

[fxstchewy]

Thanks for all the suggestions and information, sounds like the 10mm won't be anything much more than the 357 if even that, the idea of stepping it up a notch to a Superblack Hawk or such is where i am going to take this. Thanks Again.

 

[JohnKSa]

41 mag handily beats 10mm when fired from 8" barrels vs a 10mm fired from 4-5" barrels.

The numbers I'm working from are from a survey I did awhile back of every single 10mm, .41Mag and .357Mag commercial loading (including those from boutique manufacturers) for which information was available on line.

The top energy numbers for the .41Mag were from 6.5" vented barrels. Even from 4" vented barrels, the .41Mag numbers were 200fps higher than anything offered in 10mm. Energy figures for the .357Mag in 4 and 5" vented barrels are equal to or just a tiny bit higher than 10mm figures.

Two of my favorite loads loads for the 10mm are a 180 XTP @ 1252 fps and a 208 SWC @ 1175 fps.

Those are reasonable but top-end 10mm loadings. Both are around 630ft/lbs.

...here is a 208 grain bullet @ 1413 fps which makes 922 ft/lbs... The pressure is still not high as here is a close up of one of the cases...

Case appearance is not useful in judging pressure signs in handguns until the pressures are really off the charts. You should be controlling pressure using your chronograph and the information from your reloading manuals. Which manual did you get that load from?

 

[JohnKSa]

By the way, it might be worthwhile to point out that I actually did the survey with the intent of proving that the 10mm was really more powerful than the .357Mag. Funny how things work out sometimes.

 

[OilyPablo]

Sometimes case volume matters. I am 10mm fan but it's not a voluminous case. It's a fine cartridge but not nuclear.

 

[Warp]

I chose .357. Actually, I chose 10mm and bought one of those first, but realized my mistake, sold it, and then bought a .357.

The .357 magnum (and thus .38spl) is far too versatile (more than 10mm) and ubiquitous to pass up.

 

[JohnKSa]

It occurs to me that the chart from the survey may be interesting to some.

 

[Elkins45]

I see you have already settled on 357 but I was going to ask if you are a reloader. If not then 357 has the very real advantage of 38 special practice ammo.

 

[SDGlock23]

41 mag handily beats 10mm when fired from 8" barrels vs a 10mm fired from 4-5" barrels. When 41's, 44's and 357's are fired from more common 4" barrels the best 10mm loads will match anything 41 mag will do with a 4" barrel and easily beat a 357 from a 4" or shorter barrel. Comes closer to 44 mag than most understand.

Barrel length is everything here. It should also be noted that the overall length of a 4" revolver is about 2" longer overall and close to a pound heavier than a G-20. As said earlier, for hunting, buy a long barreled magnum revolver. If you want a smaller,more compact gun with about the same level of power 10mm wins.

A 4.5" barreled G-20 beside a 3" barreled 629. When fired from the 3" barrel the 44 mag loads just barely outperform Double Tap 200 gr 10mm loads. 10mm/200gr/1315 fps vs 44mag/240gr/1150 fps. Those are real numbers run over my chronograph.

I know the 10mm koolaid effects its subjects down to the core but geez! I like the 10mm but come on, comparing a HOT 10mm to a weak 44 Mag isn't apples to apples. Your .44 would hand your G20 its @$$ with ease with the right ammo.

I think the semi auto platform does have its advantages, but revolvers are king for power. Looking at loading data online, from a 4 5/8" (close to 4" barrel) Ruger Blackhawk I'm seeing a 265gr hardcast doing nearly 1350 or 210 JHPs nearly 1450 fps. The 10's a good round but it can't match the .41 Mag bullet weight vs. bullet weight velocity for velocity.

Plus revolvers lose velocity via the barrel-cylinder gap that the 10mm, in a semi auto, doesn't. From my 6.5" Blackhawk .41 Mag factory Remington 210gr JSP averages right at 1400 fps and could probably go up another 200 fps at least with a warm handload.

 

[MCgunner]

Quote:
If you want a new toy and want more gun, consider getting a .41 Mag, .44 Mag or bigger yet. Ruger Blackhawks or Super Blackhawks pump out a LOT of power for the price tag.



Now that's an idea that sounds good.

I'd add .45 Colt if you're a handloader. But, yeah, totally agree with the premise.

 

[roknjs]

Agree with the .45 Colt

http://www.customsixguns.com/writings/dissolving_the_myth.htm

 

[Jason_W]

.357 cal bullets have a higher sectional density than 10mm bullets (for bullets in the same general weight range). This might give an edge in penetration depth to the .357. I know from experience that .357 cal bullets in the 158-200 grain weight range punch pretty deep.

 

[Torian]

If you want to have the versatility shoot heavier bullets (180 grain - 220 grain), then go for the 10mm.