.38, some new problems along with the old

[FunYet]

Pictures added - problem .38 loads

I'm having more problems with my .38 special reloads, and I'm really stumped.

Accuarcy is fine. However, I am seeing evidence that bullets are tumbling (keyholes, sideways holes in the target, ripped holes, etc.) I showed some of my targets to range staff (someone who reloads for competition) and he said it looks like there's not enough pressure being generated, thus not enough speed, and the bullets are tumbling and hitting the target sideways.

I have to say, the ammo does not have nearly the kick I'd expect from a 158 gr bullet. In fact, I bought a box of 130 gr factory ammo to shoot side by side with my reloads and there is distinct difference.

My recipe is as follows:

Load: 3.1 gr Hodgdon Clays (this is the maximum load for Clays stated in Lyman's reloading guide and is the Max listed on the Hodgdon web site)
Bullets: .38, 158 gr Ranier round nose.
Brass: Winchester (new)
Primers: Winchester


As I mentioned in another post, I get a lot of burning powder coming from the muzzle with each shot. Again, it was suggested that there's not enough pressure building up to burn all of the powder. I know sparks can happen with factory ammo but I seem to be getting an excessive amount of fireworks!

I've checked, rechecked and double-rechecked my powder measurements and have checked the calibration of my scale using several different reference weights (from other scales) and it all checks out, so I can't blame it on inconsistent or inaccurate amounts of powder.

I'm stumped. Should I try different powder? It's the only variable left in the equation. Someone recommended that I increase the powder load but I'm not too eager to exceed the listed max load.

FunYet

 

[Standing Wolf]

A good choice and a better choice: Bullseye and Hodgdon Tight Group.

I was happy with Bullseye for decades; I'm even happier with Tight Group these days.

 

[helpwanted]

I was having the same problem until I put on a tighter crimp. At the same time, the crimp may be damaging the jacket and causing keyholing. What's your OAL? Did you compare to 158 factory? Try another bullet, try another powder.

 

[Archie]

Sounds like the bullets are loose in the cases. Unburnt powder is a sign of low pressure. Since your load level is appropriate, it sounds as if the resistance isn't enough to get the powder burnt properly. Clays is a pretty fast powder; I use it for 45 ACP target loads and may use it for .38 Special.

What sort of loading dies are you using?

Does the sizing die compress the case enough to where you cannot seat a bullet by hand into the casing? Following that, you need a firm (not monstrous) crimp.

Report back, please. This is odd.

 

[Jim Watson]

The plated bullets are my usual suspect. I have never had good results from them. Try some good quality cast or swaged bullets. Do NOT load real jacketed bullets in light target loads, they are prone to sticking in the bore; JSP or JHP can even shoot out the core and leave the jacket. I have seen this to happen.

 

[rbernie]

I'm running 3.8gr TiteGroup behind 158gr Ranier HPs and couldn't be happier. It's quite accurate in my 6" Taurus, does really well in my 4" K's, and is less flashy and mo' accurate in my alloy snubbies than just about anything else I've tried.

I'd suggest a change in powder and see what happens.

 

[ChristopherG]

The powder is not the problem, IF you're actually using Clays (are you sure it's just Clays, not Universal Clays?). I've shot a truckload of .38 with clays, including at and around this load level, and your combustion should be very clean and complete. In fact, you should be able to shoot hundreds of these with out any significant buildup; so the problem lies elsewhere.

IF it's really Clays, then I'd look into the issues of bullet selection and seating raised by Archie and Jim. If you're allowed to shoot lead where you shoot, try Zero 158 gr. swaged bullets.

 

[HSMITH]

I agree with Christopher, I have shot tens of thousands of 158's with Clays in 38, and used charges down to 2.7 grains without any problems at all.

Are the bullets fitting tightly in the case? If you seat one without crimping is it securely held? Is the crimp die rolling the mouth of the case just slightly into the bullet? If you can answer no to one or both of these questions it needs addressed immediately.

Can you post a picture of some loaded rounds?

 

[FunYet]

More info, with pictures

Here are some pictures...

A - Sample of the reload I've had problems with. Bullet is seated so the overall length is as prescribed in the reloading manual (1.550).

B - A .38 Special snap-cap.

C - A reload identicle to A, except I seated the bullet deeper. I have not shot a sample of this yet.

D - A reload with a different type of bullet, seated based on the cannelure. This load seems to work fine, but it does use a totally different bullet, and I tried a different powder in this one.

The image below is a pulled bullet. I popped it out to inspect the crimp.

The more I read and the more I compare bullets I'm wondering if my problem load (A) really needs to have the bullet seated deeper and if this might be contributing to my problems with tumbling bullets and spary of burning powder.

Thanks for any and all feedback,

FunYet

 

[FunYet]

Problem(s) solved!

I tried a batch of .38 spl with the bullet seated much lower, took 'em to the range, and life is good. Live and learn I guess. Good news is I now feel like I have more of a handle on reloading and can begin to enjoy it. Thanks for all of the feedback and help.

FunYet

 

[Peter M. Eick]

I am not familar with the Ranier bullet like that. Is it normally have that crimp groove in it or did you put that in it?

My bet is the stock bullets do not have that groove in them and you may be overcrimping the round. Try a bit less crimp and see if your accuracy improves.

Just a thought now that you have resolved the other issues.