.380acp vs. 38 Spec.

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Triggernosis

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I know this subject has been beat to death a million times over the years, but I'd like some insight based on some of the more recent developments in ammo. Let's share some discussion of the .380 vs. 38 Spec. as a self-defense, plinking, and field gun.
I'm thinking specifically along the lines of a .380 such as the Walther PPK or Bersa (with 3.5" barrel) vs. a similar-sized .38 revolver with a 2.5-3" barrel.
 
Generally, in an apples to apples situation where you use similar types of ammo in each gun, the .38 special is going to win. .38 special ammo is cheaper and generally easier to come by (or at least it was during the ammo drought). .380 is considered by some to be the absolute minimum defensive round, yet most folks don't seem to begrudge using a .38 special j-frame for SD (personal favorite of mine). Bonus points if you get a .357 and just carry .38 special in it.

The .380 tends to shine in the light-enough-to-forget-you-have-it-on-you category. Lots of small .380s out there that slip into a pocket, purse, or waistband. Even the slimmest lightest J-frame is probably going to take up more space and cost you at least one round of ammo in your load out.

For me, I have never found the need to own a .380. I generally like to carry .38 spec and above because I can shoot them OK. If I want a small "mouse gun", I rather like the 9x18 round over the .380 due to oomph and cost (as well as availability last year).
 
If you're going to go to a large/heavy .380 like the PPK and Bersa, then you're ignoring the main purpose of the modern .380. Which is, as Fiv3r said, the class of light-enough-to-forget-you-have-it-on-you

If you're going to carry a gun that large and heavy, you give up casual pocket carry. If you're going to wear it on your belt, then you can carry one in 9mm and even .40. The ones in 9mm are easily managed as are most of the .40's. The Kahr P9 and P40 come to mind, as does the Walther PPS.

Between the PPK/Bersa and a good .38 snubby, I'd go with the snubby.

Throwing in better options, I'd rather go with a Kahr P9 or even a Glock 26.
 
David, the main issue I have with the 9mm's is that I have yet to find one that is as thin as a .380. They're all much more bulky feeling, even in the ultra-compact version. I know they've probably got to be thicker in order to handle the increased pressure. I really wish there was a way they could cram a 9mm Parabellum into a Walther PPK.
 
The 38 special +P is "SPECIAL" for sure

I have pondered the idea of a small pocket 380 off and on for several years as they are very small and light, but after reading the problems that can be encountered with them , I prefer the tried and true snubby revolver in 38 special for reliability. I have carried the Colt detective IWB for more than 30 years now and do not intend to replace it but may just buy a Ruger LCR as a backup on the other side in the pocket. With +P ammo and its reliability, it is a winning combination for concealed carry. My 2 cents.
 
David, the main issue I have with the 9mm's is that I have yet to find one that is as thin as a .380....
Click to expand...

The Walther PPK lists the width as .98 while Kahr lists the width of the slide at .90

Granted, the slide stop may add a bit to the "thickness" but not to any practical degree whatsoever, since it's the slide that creates the overall width of the gun. Kahr's P9 frame is not wider than the slide.

If you can tolerate the width of the PPK, you can certainly tolerate the Kahr P9....and have a more potent caliber to boot.
 
maybe I have simply overlooked it, but OP touches upon a key part of question that seems not frequently addressed... difference in barrel length, and is there any real equalizer effect in that

me thinking more like 380 out of ~ 4" of barrel vs 38sp out of 1 7/8" typical snubbie barrel

any input on that ?


PS
re: what works (or doesn't) for CCW carry comfort strikes me as just too individual for broad generic statements... my all-steel single stack Colt 380 is no airweight, but conceals & carries (for me) better as IWB than anything else o own, including J-frames and (for me) is as pointable/shootable as any full size gun I own.
 
David, the main issue I have with the 9mm's is that I have yet to find one that is as thin as a .380. They're all much more bulky feeling, even in the ultra-compact version. I know they've probably got to be thicker in order to handle the increased pressure. I really wish there was a way they could cram a 9mm Parabellum into a Walther PPK.
Click to expand...

You might look at this Kel Tec PF9: http://www.kel-tec-cnc.com/pf9.htm

Personally I use both a S&W 36, a S&W 649 38 special and also have a Sig 230 .380. Maybe a slight edge to the .38 special with high end ammo. If I had to use 158 grain lead round nose from a .38 snub I would just as leave have the .380 hard ball. Very little difference in performance.
 
I bought the new Walther PK380 and have been very satisfied with it. It's not a postage-stamp pistol, but it is enjoyable to shoot (unlike the LCP), feeds every type of ammo I have fed it, is comfortable in the hand, has a magazine capacity of eight rounds, plus one in the pipe, conceals very well and sells for less than $400.00.

My other .380 is a Beretta 84FS Cheetah, which is a heavier pistol with a 14-round capacity (including one in the chamber). It is one of the best guns I own.

Yes, I know there are pistols that are the same size or smaller that fire more powerful ammunition but I m not impressed by the current fad for "more bullet than gun." IMHO, a gun that is unpleasant to shoot is one that will not be shot enough to become proficient with it. I also don't believe in practicing with one type of ammo and carrying another. I have a Smith & Wesson M637 Airweight that is rated for +P ammunition. However, it is quite unpleasant to shoot with +P rounds. So I practice with and carry .38 Special cartridges and leave the +P for my heavier Model 60.
 
a gun that is unpleasant to shoot is one that will not be shot enough to become proficient with it. I also don't believe in practicing with one type of ammo and carrying another.
Click to expand...

+1 But we are in the minority here.
 
Ballistically the 38sp wins, not by a long shot though. Mainly you have to decide whether you want a revolver or automatic. I opted for the .380 as my pocket gun over the revolver, mainly because it is especially easy to conceal. I'm also not really a revolver guy.
 
Comfort and control often relate to technique. Also, the load selection can go a long way towards being able to control a given gun.

I do not find my Kahr P-9 to be uncomfortable or uncontrollable, but I don't load it with +P+ ammo, either.

Were I to carry a Scandium .357 Snubby, I'd stoke it with hot .38's, not magnums.

My Compact Aluminum Stainless Kimber .45 is loaded with standard pressure Golden Sabre, not the 200 grain +P Gold Dots @ 1120 fps.

I'd choose any of these over a similarly sized (or larger) .380, regardless of the .380 load.
 
I am certainly not a handgun ballistics expert but I can say that firing my Smith & Wesson mod 37 Airweight with standard 158 grain ammo produces a much more powerful recoil in my hand than does my Diamondback 380 using 102 grain Remington Golden Sabers.
However since the Smith is not nearly as pocket friendly as the DB it will not get carried near as much as the DB.
Unless that is until I feel the semi auto lacks dependibility.
 
huntsman said:
+1 But we are in the minority here.
Click to expand...
perhaps more here than you think...I think the .38special is ballistically superior in a snub to the .380ACP...but manytimes the .380ACP will have more rounds and might be easier to shoot...I have both a Smith Centenial (usually with 125GR Federal Nyclad) and a SiG P230 (right now with 90GR Hornady Critical Defense)...good luck with your choice...The airweight SiG feels lighter and easier to conceal than the Airweight Smith...5 with the Smith and 8 with the SiG...
Bill
 
I agree with much of the above.

I have always viewed the .380 as the best balance between lots of "punch" and "small package" for situations where you might need a small CCW, but the overall threat level is low. The .38 special I have always viewed as the minimum caliber for going into a known situation where there is a higher threat, and I also view it as the minimum home defense caliber (ok +P really). Now some folks think .380 is just fine as a carry caliber in just about any situation, some say 9mm, some .40, some "wouldn't be caught dead" defending themselves with anything less than a .44 or .45 caliber projectile.

The other reason I like .38 as a minimum for SD is cost..., for lets face it to use ANY caliber for SD you have to be able to hit what needs to be hit..., so you need to train. As illogical as it seems, folks will increase their personal risk if the means to reduce that risk "costs too much". :eek: I'd rather Harry Home Owner (or Harriet) had a five shot .38, and shot 2 boxes of ammo (or more) at the range each month, than to have an large capacity anything, and shoot a box or two of ammo a year. ;)


LD
 
Good thread. I have been wondering specifically about the .380/.38 spc. comparison. I ride a bicycle a lot and want something both lightweight and thin to keep in the saddle bag. I handled a LCR the other day and it fits the bill as far as weight is concerned. Not so much with width.
 
Triggernosis... As to the original question..I like the .38 spl. In regards to other options, such as your not finding a thin 9mm, I have to agree with Bill B. Check out the KelTec
PF9...If you're looking for a thin, light 9mm, there it is. Not a target pistol, but definitely more than adequate for up close and personal, down and dirty self defense. Fairly inexpensive, as well.....Good luck!
Tac
 
Per the OP -> a 3" barrel .38 Special is going to be far superior to any .380. Put something like the FBI +P load in the .38 Special and there is no comparison.

Just use the data listed at Buffalo Bore as a basis of comparison:

.380 Auto +P Ammo - 100 gr. Hardcast F.N. (1150fps/ M.E. 294 ft. lbs.)

.38 Special +P Ammo - 158 gr. L.S.W.C.H.P. --G.C. (1,000fps/M.E. 351 ft.lbs.)

Plus the .38 Special really expands well. The .380 doesn't really.

I carry a 4" S&W Model 64 as a result. YMMV.

William
 
Quote:
"..but I thought the OP wanted a discussion between .380ACP and .38Special..."

silversport...so did I, but it didn't take long for other variables to enter in. And the OP did
bring up 9mm in a .380 thin frame...
 
David, the main issue I have with the 9mm's is that I have yet to find one that is as thin as a .380.
Click to expand...

The Kahr P9/PM9 and Kel-Tec PF-9 are .9" and .88" respectively. That is thinner than all but the micro .380's (~.75") and much slimmer than any wheelgun, save the NAA mini's. J frames and similar are 1.3" or wider at the cylinder.

I have a model 37 airweight, and it's no problem to carry in a coat pocket. But for IWB, I'll take my PF-9 every time. Especially since standard pressure 9x19 and .38+P are virtually identical ballistically speaking, and the PF-9 has a 3 round advantage over a J.
 
I never thought about .380 until the Ruger LCP came out. As a BUG or a super concealed primary (mostly a BUG, in my case), the LCP is great. Just be aware of the limitations of the round.
However, I would not be interested in any larger handgun in .380 caliber.

I am a .38 SPL fan and carry a .38 snubby quite often (pocket carry). But the LCP does fit better when carried in a vest pocket.

So, both calibers work well for self defense. .38 SPL is a better all around calber, but .380 in a mousegun does have it's place.
 
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