Ah, I mis-understood. I was addressing the appendix carry and draw in general as opposed to in a CQB context.
I was first introduced to the position/technique in your picture by Michael Janich of
MBC, who I understand learned it from Rex Applegate who trained the OSS and wrote Kill or Get Killed (1943) blended with techniques originated by W.E. Fairbairn who developed them in 1907-1940 while training the Shanghai Municipal Police
I just had a refresher on this technique a couple of weeks ago at a CQ HS shooting class with Rudy Waldinger of
DFT and we were getting hits...starting from 3' away... more along the center line. He prefers you orient more toward the center line to avoid misses from movement by either party during the entanglement.
While he does advocate lateral movement in most training, engagements at this distance precludes it and dictates forward movement while striking with the off-hand elbow
9mmepiphany said:
Ah, I mis-understood. I was addressing the appendix carry and draw in general as opposed to in a CQB context.
I was first introduced to the position/technique in your picture by Michael Janich of MBC, who I understand learned it from Rex Applegate who trained the OSS and wrote Kill or Get Killed (1943) blended with techniques originated by W.E. Fairbairn who developed them in 1907-1940 while training the Shanghai Municipal Police
No doubt the "retention shooting" position has been around a long time! I think there are a few key differences though in the way SN does it.
#1 it is pure, consistent physical index, not aimed, and is only used when in touching distance of target
#2 it is intended to be as versatile as possible within that niche
#3 it is a part of the drawstroke, or as close to a part as possible (cf. this discussion re AIWB!)
I am REALLY not an expert on this and would advise anyone looking for more guidance to take a class with him or buy his DVD "Fighting Handgun," which is EXCELLENT, but for people who are confused on this here are a few (random) pics of what I am NOT talking about.
http://a.usacarry.co/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/RRRSG4-300x219.jpg - NOT the pectoral index #2 I'm referring to, because a) the support hand is meeting the gun hand, and b) the muzzle is too horizontal indicating the gun is going "on target" rather than guided solely by a physical index
http://www.jb-training.com/close_retention_position.JPG - also NOT the pectoral index #2, but I believe this is more similar to what the old school guys taught for retention. Key differences are that it is not a seamless part of the drawstroke and again, vertical muzzle, plus the gun is actually quite far from the torso.
What I am talking about:
The pic in this article of Paul Gomez shows how the pectoral index #2 integrates into the drawstroke from hip IWB:
http://www.teddytactical.com/archive/Feature/2007/05_Feature.htm
Most important (IMO) elements are that his gun is oriented via a consistent physical index and the gun-hand thumb creates space between garment and slide.
9mmepiphany said:
I just had a refresher on this technique a couple of weeks ago at a CQ HS shooting class with Rudy Waldinger of DFT and we were getting hits...starting from 3' away... more along the center line. He prefers you orient more toward the center line to avoid misses from movement by either party during the entanglement.
While he does advocate lateral movement in most training, engagements at this distance precludes it and dictates forward movement while striking with the off-hand elbow
Here is a pic of Janich I found, no idea whether it is a good representation of what he teaches:
http://www.personaldefensenetwork.com/media/images/german-seminar.jpg
In my experience the biggest benefit of the pectoral index #2 (like in the Gomez link) is that you can really lock the pistol to the torso for retention, AND 70-80% of the space in front of you is "safe" for the off-hand (fending, grabbing, arm-dragging, grappling, striking, etc). The semi-vertical muzzle is attractive on paper for getting "good hits" but I personally like the safety of the pectoral index and the "locked down" aspect of it (involving lots of musculature pulling the elbow up and back) for retention.
I don't want to post photos that would reveal proprietary info but these things become critical in a vehicle, or other very encroached situation, where you want to shoot with NO hope of "creating space." I think SN's contribution of making the "retention shooting" position work WELL with grappling martial arts and therefore really integrating the handgun into what we think of as hand-to-hand ranges cannot be over-stated.