Oh I’m not going there. All I’m going to say is that I shot a 450 pounder in North Carolina a number of years ago right between the shoulder blades with my .500 Maximum (525 grain WLN at 1,350 fps) and it still ran off about 150 yards before piling up and conceding defeat. In other words, he still had plenty left to kill me had he been inclined. Just sayin’.../QUOTE]
Funny thing is I carried a 9mm trudging through the NC woods. Lee's lake to be exact. Didn't feel undergunned. I did upgrade to a .40 for work. Carried that felt confident. And someone hit a 400 pounder a half mile from my house. Had to bring out a roll back to get it off the road. Didn't see any hogs. This was back in 2005-2010. So hogs could have moved in around those parts. I'm back in Georgia.
Oh I’m not going there. All I’m going to say is that I shot a 450 pounder in North Carolina a number of years ago right between the shoulder blades with my .500 Maximum (525 grain WLN at 1,350 fps) and it still ran off about 150 yards before piling up and conceding defeat. In other words, he still had plenty left to kill me had he been inclined. Just sayin’...
Bears (of any sort) aren’t whitetail and they aren’t feral hogs...
That was Phil Shoemaker and the bear was running towards his client and not charging him. You can bet he wouldn’t have wanted that mouse gun had the bear charged him. That incident doesn’t make the 9mm a good bear gun irrespective of the type/size of the bear.
From Handloader No. 236- "Handloading the .44 S&W Special" - That same year I trailed a black bear that had been wounded with a .338 Winchester Magnum. After getting above the bear on the steep hillside, a 250-grain .44 Special bullet was planted squarely between his shoulders, cutting the spine and exiting between the front legs.
From my own experience- Thirty or so years ago I shot a Colorado bull elk with a 7x57 that dropped on the spot, then 20 years later I shot another with a 35 Whelen that ran a 100 yds. or so. Does that mean the little 7x57 is better for bull elk than a 35 Whelen? No. It means that a poorly placed shot with a large caliber is less effective than a well placed shot with a smaller one. You sort of unwittingly pointed that out.
35W
No, according to Shoemaker, the bear had charged the clients, but when they fell back on the grass, it turned and moved towards Shoemaker.
Shoemaker thought enough of the performance of the Buffalo Bore 147 HC load to write Tim Sundles and tell him how the round worked on a big and dangerous critter at bad breath range. The letter can be found here:
https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=388
You are right, a 9MM isn’t a gun to go out and harvest a bear with. But in hunting, you should ethically carry enough gun to reliably take down an animal cleanly in a typical hunting situation with a single shot.
Self defense is different. Physics still apply for the bullet, but the paradigm shifts to as many rounds as needed to stop the threat, be it two legged or four.
To the original post, I’d say the .44 Special round will certainly work, but I’d probably load it in that DA revolver he has vice the SA...but thats just me.
I would chew that one back to round, run through the sizer and shoot something else with it.It sounds like you're comfortable with your Blackhawk .44 Special, so IMHO that should be the firearm you carry.
I have but one example of a load similar to the Buffalo Bore load to which you refer (255 gr. SWC @ ~1050 fps). A few years ago I took a raking shot on a buck with a .44 Special with a home-cast 258 gr. SWC that struck the buck in the left flank at about 1050 fps, travelled the length of his body, struck a bone somewhere along the way(see photo), and came to rest under the skin at the juncture of the right shoulder and the neck.
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Not a black bear, I know, but still that's about 30" or so of penetration. Brian Pearce wrote a really good article on the .44 Special in which he mentions some of his kills with the cartridge.
Evidently you're not a handloader. A .44 Special such as your Blackhawk can quite easily be handloaded to "standard" .44 Magnum levels; i.e. a 250-ish gr. SWC at 1200 fps. I've tested such loads in my Flat Top Blackhawk and they were quite accurate out to 100 yds. If you foresee carrying your .44 Special in these situations in the future you might consider getting an inexpensive set up to load .44 Special; that is a hand press, a set of used dies and a cheap set of scales. Such a set up would probably cost half what a box of Buffalo Bore .44 Special ammunition costs.
35W
I am very familiar with this incident. American Hunter broke the story and I wrote the companion piece on Buffalo Bore’s Outdoorsman line of ammo. Tim Sundles is still amazed that folks think the 9mm is a good idea for bear. As I recall from Phil, the last shot was in the bear’s backside. He had the luxury of shooting it multiple times as it run across his front. Had he been the one being charged, things may have gone very wrong. But I’m speculating.
Here’s the link in his own words. Phil’s 7th and last shot was in its pelvic region as it ran off.
https://www.americanhunter.org/arti...ishermen-from-raging-grizzly-with-9mm-pistol/
Realistically, how many shots do you think you are going to get off on a charging bear? Five? Six? Probably one, maybe two. I’m not saying everyone should carry a .500 something or another, I’m saying horsepower is your friend if you can shoot it (that’s oversimplified, but you get the gist).
Why would anyone carry a 9mm in Alaska?Wouldn't hunt bear with my Glock 19. I do carry it when I'm not up to carrying my 44 in the woods. It's not the best. 16 rounds of 9mm will stop them. With the right bullet selection. I do not have the article at hand. But remember reading about killing a charging bear with 9mm in Alaska. I'll try to dig it up.
I think your 44 special is a great choice for a carry gun in PA. There are guys that will hunt bears/pigs/deer with a 357 handgun. Your 255 hard cast 44 special load is going to do more damage than a 357 will at close range.Hi all,
I am relatively new member to The High Road Forums and while I've lurked in the background reading posts for several months this is my first attempt at actually starting a thread. I am an avid hunter and fisherman in Northeast PA and spend as many days in the outdoors as possible. My inquiry comes from two recent (2017 & 2019) encounters with black bears whilst small game hunting for which I use a 410 bore shotgun or 22lr bolt action rifle. On both occassions, the bears did not run in the opposite direction as many have in the past. After much yelling, making lots of racket and making myself appear larger the bears did not back off and were within 15 yards of me. It wasn't until I fired a shot in the opposite direction of the bear (to make more noise that I was capable of) did the bears eventually scamper away on both occassions. Last year's (2019) was particularly troublesome as I did see what I thought was the same bear about a half hour but thankfully he did not approach for a second time. It made me feel extremely uneasy. We have some large black bears up here in PA some of which get over 500lbs. I estimated this bear to be in the 300lb range though I am no field judging expert.
While both hunting and fishing I have carried a ruger flattop 44 special loaded with 200 grain hard cast wadcutter(chono'd at 1,080fps avg) from underwood ammo for self defense from 2 legged predators. I feel comfortable with this load for that purpose should the need arise. However, my last encounter with the black bear has left me wondering if this round is enough or if I should move up to Underwood's 255 grain hard cast 44 special load which I chronographed at 1,065fps from my 4.625 blackhawk. Then I got wondering if the 255 grain load would even be enough assuming my shot placement is accurate? Please note that I do have a S&W 629-6 44 mag but I am still practicing with 44 mag loads (it's been about 1 year) and don't feel comfortable using it for woods carry with the high power ammo without more practice. A man's got to know his limitations right?
I was hoping to get some practical input on these particular loads in 44 special. I dont want to turn this into a grizzly bear attack discussion or a black bear hunting discussion. I am not in grizzly country and I dont plan on hunting black bears. I was simply wondering that if in the off chance I become the rare statistic would the ammo do it's part if I do mine? Your input is appreciated in advance.
It was. For reasons unknown to me, there is weird stuff going on behind the scenes and it has manifested itself here. I'm going to ignore it because some folks don't know what they think they know. Bottom line is that the .44Spl with proper loads will deal with anything in the lower 48 short of the great bears of the north. Seriously, we're talking about Pennsylvania here, not Alaska. When all you've ever used or been interested in are hand cannons, you get the idea that they are necessary for every application. They are not. You can certainly drive nails with a 10lb sledge but I'll pick the right tool for the job, rather than carry a 10lb sledge everywhere I go. Even in that context, the 250gr Keith bullet will penetrate the same depth as the Brenneke Black Magic 12ga slug.CraigC - it is nice to have your your input knowing that you've hunted many large animals with a handgun in the past. I could be wrong but I suspect it was you who made the 44 mag contribution in MaxP's excellent book Hunting Revolvers.
That's cool I guess. I'd still be fine with a 9mmHmmm....really? My youngest son (light colored sweat shirt) got this NC bear this year with a .30-30 Winchester head shot. He was also carrying a Ruger Redhawk .44 mag. Both were on the ground at 30 paces. I'm glad he wasn't just armed with a 9mm.
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https://www.americanhunter.org/arti...ishermen-from-raging-grizzly-with-9mm-pistol/Why would anyone carry a 9mm in Alaska?
Just wondering???
I'm glad to see that no one got hurt. I would also carry a 9 mm if that is all I have. Again the guide got lucky. He normal carried a 44 mag and went with a 9mm that time???
https://www.ammoland.com/2018/02/de...tols-97-success-rate-37-incidents-by-caliber/I'm glad to see that no one got hurt. I would also carry a 9 mm if that is all I have. Again the guide got lucky. He normal carried a 44 mag and went with a 9mm that time???
As a backup maybe, a primary when you normally carry a 44?