45-70 with Handgun Powders

[lordpaxman]

Just tagging in since I acquired a Henry .45-70 and have a few boxes of factory ammo. At some point I’ll reload, just not right now. I understand the desire to use pistol/shotgun powders but the published data I saw had mainly rifle (slower) powders.

 

[Charlie98]

Just tagging in since I acquired a Henry .45-70 and have a few boxes of factory ammo. At some point I’ll reload, just not right now. I understand the desire to use pistol/shotgun powders but the published data I saw had mainly rifle (slower) powders.

Be careful with that. There is actually 3 levels of .45-70 data... Trapdoor, Lever-action, and Modern loads. The loadings the OP is asking about are Trapdoor loads, with loads at or under about 15K PSI. Those are actually fun to shoot. Lever-action loads I translate to 'hunting.' They are reasonable powder loads suitable for taking game, the caveat to that is they can be (almost) as brutal on your shoulder as they are on the game. I tend to shoot a lot of .45-70 in one sitting, or over a weekend; I can't take lever-action loads for very long.

Typical Trapdoor loads use slow pistol powders (unique, 2400, et al) or fast rifle powders (IMR4198, AA5744, et al.) Lever-action loads use mid-range powders like IMR's 3031, 4895, and 45-70, et al.

When I got my Marlin 1895, I loaded up some 350grn cast bullets for a steel shoot, using starting lever-action loads of IMRs 3031, 4895, and 4064. I fired about 20 of them before I had to stop. I wound up parking the 1895 for the rest of the weekend, and when I got home I pulled all those cartridges... over 100. 31grn IMR4198 and that same 350grn bullet gives me 1450fps, and I can shoot those all weekend long. So you really need to define what it is you wish to do with your .45-70 Henry, and load accordingly.

 

[lordpaxman]

Thanks for the clarification and yes I did see those three categories online. I did just look at the lever action loads, mainly for hunting, but will also try some trail boss loads to protect what’s left of the shoulder.

 

[WrongHanded]

Range Report:

I loaded 20 rounds. 20.0gr of 2400, WLR primer, and an SNS 405gr coated RNFP .458" dia, in Starline brass.

This bullet had previously badly (oh so horribly) leaded the last 4" or so of barrel with a starting charge of H322. Yes, the diameter should probably have been .459", but SNS originally only had .458" and I trusted them on that a year or two back.

Now, when I shoot a new load, I wear protective shooting glasses rather than my regular glasses, which correct a dominant eye astigmatism. I do this because safety is important. My point is that the front sight is harder to keep in focus, and accuracy is therefore harder to attain or judge. I mention this for the benefit of anyone interested in the accuracy potential of this load, and not to defend my poor shooting.

I tried my best to test for differences due to powder position. But I think more than anything, I just show how my POA shifted around.

Top left is 10 shots @ 25yds off the bench (no rear bag or anything). I shook the powder back towards the primer on most, but not all (because I forgot) of these shots. I don't think the flyers are necessarily those shots, but I can confirm that I'm only human.



Top left is 5 shots with the powder forward. That was the tightest group right at 1".

Bottom 5 shots were with the powder level. And maybe 1.25".

I think the load is plenty accurate for my range needs. Best news though, is no leading. So I'm calling this one a win right now. I'll likely run a few over a chrono at some point, purely out of curiosity.

 

[Obturation]

How was the unburned powder / soot ?
Haven't gotten mine out yet, looks like accuracy was acceptable.
& I assume the recoil was mild?

 

[WrongHanded]

How was the unburned powder / soot ?
Haven't gotten mine out yet, looks like accuracy was acceptable.
& I assume the recoil was mild?

Not as dirty as I thought it would be. It basically all stayed in the barrel, and came reasonably clean with a couple passes of a bore snake (as clean as a bore snake usually gets a barrel).

Very mild recoil. It didn't even feel like I was shooting the same rifle. Subsonic. Just a thump as it hit the backstop. It was a pretty interesting sound.

 

[Obturation]

Not as dirty as I thought it would be. It basically all stayed in the barrel, and came reasonably clean with a couple passes of a bore snake (as clean as a bore snake usually gets a barrel).

Very mild recoil. It didn't even feel like I was shooting the same rifle. Subsonic. Just a thump as it hit the backstop. It was a pretty interesting sound.

Great.
That same load is certainly suitable for hunting or self defense as long as you can do your part. I like a light load from a big bore rifle, sounds different and accuracy is better if the heavy stuff can get you flinching. I doubt anything that breathes would take one of those and live long at any velocity .
I'll report my findings too - nice we're using the same rifle, I'll hope for similar results.

 

[AJC1]

I was so curious how this was going to work out. Are you done or are you going to work more up or down?

 

[WrongHanded]

I was so curious how this was going to work out. Are you done or are you going to work more up or down?

For now, I'm done working up with the 405gr bullets. I don't want to push these .458" much faster. I'll be more inclined to work upwards if I buy some .459" at later date.

I still need to find a decent charge for the 350gr plated bullets. I might start with 22gr there.

 

[AJC1]

For now, I'm done working up with the 405gr bullets. I don't want to push these .458" much faster. I'll be more inclined to work upwards if I buy some .459" at later data.

I still need to find a decent charge for the 350gr plated bullets. I might start with 22gr there.

My dad cast a lot of 385 lead so that's going to be my challenge, but I will use every bit of your experiences that I can to help.

 

[GooseGestapo]

Lyman has LOTS of pistol powder data for the .45/70 in their “Cast Bullet Handbook“.

#2400 is my go-to powder for the .45/70. Dacron improves accuracy but is not needed.

H322 is an excellent powder for jacketed bullets.

My current favorite.45-70 load is 29.5gr of #2400 under a RCBS 300gr FNGC (322gr). No Dacron needed.

This is a 50yd target shot with 19.8gr (Lee 1.58 cavity) under a Lee .458” (.460” sized) 405gr HPt. Tuft of Dacron over powder. . 3-shots.
Lower rifle. Bought on clearance at Walmart for $267 out the door. Wears a Bushnell 2-7.

 

[Charlie98]

I don't want to push these .458" much faster.

I don't blame you.

I would be interesting to compare the same load with .458" and .459" bullets to see if there is a significant difference in either accuracy or leading.