.45 Acp

[DannyinJapan]

You know, all the various shortcomings of various SMGs are what led to the development of assault rifles, did they not?
More powerful and accurate than SMG rounds, but capable of full auto fire and higher ammo count..

 

[Artful]

Well, I in my experience the 9mm is easier to shoot but the 45 does more knock down. An observation, when I was a kid growning up a knew a fair number of men that would show me where they had been hit with 9mm SMG multiple times and had the scars to prove it - I've never heard from anyone hit multiple times with a 45 SMG and lived to show the scars. I do have a few friends with 45 scars out of a handgun but not a SMG.

 

[HM2PAC]

iamkris wrote:

Don't place all your eggs in the velocity basket. Lots of old time hunters know that for actual killing of things, nothing beats slow, heavy and wide.

Not the velocity I'm talking about. The discussion was about the .45ACP having more ENERGY than the 30Carbine at 100 yds. It obviously doesn't.

I too prefer the 45 for it's big heavy slow bullet. I also hunt with big-bore rifles at times.

 

[AirplaneDoc]

Nolo,

I have noticed that you have several threads in various groups on the subject of 45acp vs other. Generally they all are leaning toward "the numbers on the 45 don't stack up to the numbers of 9mm, 30 carb, etc and the 45 appears anemic in comparison." So here is my answer to all of your threads.

Right up front I am a big fan of the 45. It has a couple of drawbacks no arguement there. Generally you get a single stack magazine so # of rounds is limited to 8+1 vs a (fill in your favorite numbers superior round) at 12+ .Many people feel that the 45 is a handfull to control, or hang on to. Both are valid points. I m sure there are a couple of others as well.

As many have replied in your various posts on the site. You have to look beyond the numbers on a table with most of these rounds when you are discussing stopping power of a round. Lets branch away for a moment compare the 45/70 to the 30.06. By the numbers the 30.06 is far superior to the 45/70, its faster, flatter, etc. But that does not by any means make the 45/70 anemic, just look at the countless buffalo that lost there life to the 405grs of lead from a 45/70. Those are huge animals that a 30.06 which is by the numbers superior, is way too underpowered.

The same holds true with the 45acp vs (fill in).

As somebody posted in one of your thread never underestimate the effectiveness of that massive amount of lead.

All that being said, the 45acp may or may not be for you. I have a good friend that would not have a 45 for may of the reasons stated above, He leans toward the 9mm, and there is nothing wrong with that. Its what works for him that matters most. My point is the numbers really mean very little when SHTF. I would take something that I am confident in, comfortable with, and practiced with, any day vs something that I am not. For each of us that is a personal decision and investment. Just remember a .22 can kill as well

 

[iamkris]

The discussion was about the .45ACP having more ENERGY than the 30Carbine at 100 yds.

Actually, no. I reviewed the discussion at that point...it was talking about "powerful" versus "energy".

I'm not arguing that the ME is higher...my point is that practical power (e.g., terminal ballistics) is more than just a discussion of ME which is overweighted toward MV. You and I agree.

EDIT: Oh wait, I see you were actually answering AirplaneDoc's question, not the OP. Nevermind.

 

[S&Wfan]

Effective means doing the job.

Any of those caliblers will do the job with correct bullet placement as long as the bullet has enough energy to perform it's job quickly.

As far as control and grouping, the lighter kicking rounds can generally be made to shoot tighter groups, and shoot 'em in the fastest time. In a gun fight, accurate + fastest wins.

As far as rounds per minute . . . again, hit factor rules supreme.

As far as ammo needs are concerned, when any subgun is puking out lots of brass in a fast amount of time, the lighter and smaller the ammo is per round, the more extra ammo you can tote.

The weight and mass of the .45ACP ammo pretty much doomed it in both modern subguns and auto pistols for use by the spray and pray crowd. The 9mm option, in its NATO-spec hotter ammo, obsoleted the .45ACP in pistol caliber subguns long ago. Heck, a .380 subgun can be obscenely fast in its own right . . . but with marginal terminal ballistics going against it.

If you ever get to go to a sub match where you can shoot subguns against others against the clock at multiple targets (especially if you have to knock down heavy metal plates and poppers, watch what the best shooters who win pick out.

It won't be a Thompson . . . or an Uzi . . . but rather a 9mm subgun with a slower auto rate of fire that allows you to engage all your steel (and other) targets faster . . . and before you run out of ammo to make all your hits. A Sweedish K would be a good choice.

In gunfights, effective and accurate bullet placement in the fastest time wins generally . . . and it surely does at matches.

Nahhh . . . as much as I'd LOVE to own a Thompson, I dang sure wouldn't have wanted to tote one around with a couple of hundred rounds of loaded ammo back "in the day."

T.

 

[HM2PAC]

AirplaneDoc,

I looked back through my old threads, and cannot find where I say the the other rounds are making the 45 look anemic in comparison.

I only own 45 in semi's.

I carry 45.

I reload 45.

Personally, as a side note, I am a staunch critic of the 9mm and 40S&W. The only reason I got involved in this discussion was that you made the comment that you "thought" the 45 still had more energy than the 30carbine at 100 yards. I only posted ballistic data that you didn't. I couldn't find data for the 45 ACP at 100 yds.

Mods, please excuse my taking this thread off-track.

 

[Nolo]

HM2PAC, AirplaneDoc was talking to me, I believe.
Let me make a few things clear.
I have no experience.
I've shot .22 LR, 12 gauge, 7.62x54R, 7.62x39 and 9mm Parabellum.
The 9mm Parabellum was the scariest one, though I think it was the gun (a S&W Model 59), not the caliber.
So four calibers. I have no experience.
I've never shot an SMG or anything that even compares to an SMG. Closest I've come was a Yugo underfolder AK.
When I post a thread, I'm not arguing a point. I know you guys know what you're talking about. I want information. If I had my druthers, I'd go shoot 5 ways to Sunday and find out all the information I'm looking for.
But I don't get to shoot often. I'm only seventeen, I'm under the guidance of my parents and they're pretty strict about guns.
So I come here, the next best source, to find out what I want to learn.
I have no doubt that .45 ACP is effective. It has been demonstrated time and time again to be an actual stopper in combat.
What I'm most interested in is your experience.
I want to tap your brain. I want to know what you know.
So yeah, I know nothing. I want to know everything.
I've coming a long way in my information hunt. I know ten times as much as I did a month ago. But I want to know more.

 

[AirplaneDoc]

Nolo,

No problem

In my experience the charts and graphs are great, in most cases they figured in ideal conditions, not necessarly real world, and they don't tell the whole story. I work with too many people that foucs on the charts and graphs, and not enough on the real/practical application. Thats all.

My recomendation, (might be a problem if you are 17) find a place to rent or someone to let you borrow a 45, and give it a whirl. Most of the time I am at the range, if you strike up a conversation, guys are usually willing to let you burn a mag or 2, in order to try out a different gun. I find this even more true if someone has a rare (not ultra expensive) gun. I do this as much as I can, I recently rented a 50S&W and bought 10 rounds, just to give it a try. it was cool, but not for me BTW, Cost is usually not prohibitive.

It's kind of like food, try as much as you can, and see what you like



AD

 

[jpwilly]

Here's some relevant 100yrd 45 ACP Ballistics I found at Federal's website fired from a 5" bbl.

45 AUTO HYDRA-SHOK JHP PREMIUM PERSONAL DEFENSE

Federal Load No.: P45HS1
Factory Primer No.: 150
Caliber: 45 Auto
Bullet Weight Grains / Grams: 230 / 14.9
Bullet style: Hydra-Shok JHP

..................Muzzle 25 50 75 100
Velocity FPS 890 872 856 840 824
Energy FTLBS 404 389 374 360 347
Drop 0 -2.0 -6.9-15.0

 

[f4t9r]

I do not know the details of a breakdown but I once had an Uzi in 45 and it was way more destructive then any 9mm we shot. Do not have any info or remember shooting one in 30 cal. as far as a sub goes