When I began carrying a few years ago, I started taking regular shooting/CCH classes, and the 1911 and .45 were always well-represented in those classes. It's what I was usually shooting, too. In the last 2 or 3 years I see a definite shift away from both, and it's common now to see no .45s or 1911s in a class. Personally I've shifted to 9mm and .40 Glocks for most of my shooting (still have all my 1911s though). Do you see the same? Have you personally shifted away from the .45 and/or 1911?
.45 and 1911 losing ground?
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buck460XVR
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No....I still use and shoot my 1911 as much, if not more than I ever did. I also have many more platforms that I use and carry that were not around, even just a few years back. While the 1911 and it's clones are great guns to shoot and are an accurate handgun platform, they are not the easiest gun to carry concealed for many folks. The availability to more compact firearms and the wide selection of effective SD ammo available now for those calibers/platforms, means folks have more and in many cases, better options than the always venerable 1911 for CWC. This does not mean the 1911 is going away anytime soon.
badkarmamib
Member
I've gone the opposite direction. My first centerfire purchase was a Beretta 92FS. After a string of 9MM's, I noticed the .40 S&W, because 9MM isn't "powerful" enough to use on deer in VA, and I always carry a pistol for finishing shots if required. Got a Sig SP2022 in .40. Absolutely love the round and the gun. I never appreciated the ergonomics of a 1911 when I was younger, but finally traded into my first one last year, and both pistols get equal trigger/dry-fire/EDC time now.
My wife has gone from .22 to .32 to .380 to .45, and her pistol of choice is a Ruger SR1911 Commander in .45.
Maybe bigger is better...
My wife has gone from .22 to .32 to .380 to .45, and her pistol of choice is a Ruger SR1911 Commander in .45.
Maybe bigger is better...
Coyote3855
Member
While I love the 1911 platform in .45 ACP and competed successfully with it for years in IPSC and Three Gun, I see many students in our advanced classes opting for handguns with higher capacity and lighter weight. Improvements in defense ammunition in smaller calibers has reduced the perception if not the reality that a .45 is necessary for concealed carry applications.
I'm small framed -5/7 and 145 pounds so it has always been more difficult to conceal a 1911 than my Glock 19. So I usually carry the Glock while the 1911 is relegated to nightstand duty.
I'm small framed -5/7 and 145 pounds so it has always been more difficult to conceal a 1911 than my Glock 19. So I usually carry the Glock while the 1911 is relegated to nightstand duty.
Zaydok Allen
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I carry a 45 a lot and a 1911 at times. I think more carriers means more folks are choosing more modern designs. I also think the price of ammo has some moving to 9mm and 40 cal.
But 45's and 1911s are alive and well. I think your observation is due to tremendous variety in the market.
But 45's and 1911s are alive and well. I think your observation is due to tremendous variety in the market.
I have noticed that people are moving away from full size pistols altogether. I think the trend in caliber size correlates with that. I think when people shop for more compact versions they tend to go away from larger calibers to smaller ones.
Climb14er
Member
NO! I carry a DW CCO .45ACP 1911 in either a Milt Sparks Axiom or Nexus holster.
I like the slim profile of the 1911, the single action trigger, the reliability and the .45ACP in a Gold Dot 230gr load.
What's there not to like?
I like the slim profile of the 1911, the single action trigger, the reliability and the .45ACP in a Gold Dot 230gr load.
What's there not to like?
JohnnyFlake
Member
You may not see them as much at classes, etc. and I believe that's because a whole lots of new people are starting to carry, many of them are women (God Bless). The .45acp is no pop gun, it has a stiff recoil, less so in a heavy frame gun, which are harder for women and younger people to handle, and more so in lighter frame guns.
There have been more NEW 1911 Model .45acp handguns introduced, in the last five years, than in the prior 50 years. The 1911 .45acp is alive and well and will be, long after many of the new rocket science calibers are gone. It has always done the job and done it very well! You really don't need all these magic bullets they have come up with, for a .45acp!
There have been more NEW 1911 Model .45acp handguns introduced, in the last five years, than in the prior 50 years. The 1911 .45acp is alive and well and will be, long after many of the new rocket science calibers are gone. It has always done the job and done it very well! You really don't need all these magic bullets they have come up with, for a .45acp!
This.^
But also the fact that the difference in real-world effect on the human body between modern 9mm, .40SW, and .45ACP defensive loadings is almost indistinguishable, and more people than ever understand this now. Thus, the increased preference for the less expensive, lighter-recoiling, and greater capacity offered by 9mm.
guyfromohio
Member
I think also that the classes being offered are more geared towards the Glock-type platform. Likely fewer 1911 aficionados buying into the "15-round, no-safety, striker or you will die" mantra. The 1911 makers are pumping them out and selling well. IMO, Colt hasn't been this good in many decades and their new releases are outstanding.
Deanimator
Member
I recently bought a 3.5" Citadel M1911.
Given the current terrorism situation and my proximity to this summer's Republican National Convention, I felt uncomfortable with the S&W Model 36 I was carrying. I felt comfortable with my Glock 19, but apart from the Smith I ONLY carry IWB. The Citadel is MUCH more comfortable when carried that way.
I'm actually carrying the Glock right now while I make a holster for the Citadel. When that's done, I'll be switching.
Given the current terrorism situation and my proximity to this summer's Republican National Convention, I felt uncomfortable with the S&W Model 36 I was carrying. I felt comfortable with my Glock 19, but apart from the Smith I ONLY carry IWB. The Citadel is MUCH more comfortable when carried that way.
I'm actually carrying the Glock right now while I make a holster for the Citadel. When that's done, I'll be switching.
Delford
Member
I started 7 years ago with .45 ACP having never shot a pistol before. I paid attention in class and qualified with a .22lr Beretta. Then I tried several and bought the DA/SA Ruger. Now I carry a PM45 because it's more concealable and lighter. I've been blessed with several friends who shoot and got me into it. They've let me shoot every common caliber except .454 & .460.
I reload more 45 ACP than any other caliber. That said, my primary self defense weapon is in 40 S&W. I purchased as many 1911's as other guns in the last 10 years. I do find that most weapons in CCW classes are either 9MM or 40 S&W - I see some 380 as well. I qualified with both my 40 and 45.
jhb
Member
I shifted back to .45acp but in a hk usp tactical. Still have my 1911s and love them. Course i also have .38 supers in 1911s as well.
Most folks who arent gun collectors and enthusiasts like short barrel compact 9mm. I see many ethusiasts though running from .357sig and .40s&w back to 9mm. Don't know the stats just stating what i see.
Most folks who arent gun collectors and enthusiasts like short barrel compact 9mm. I see many ethusiasts though running from .357sig and .40s&w back to 9mm. Don't know the stats just stating what i see.
The Lone Haranguer
Member
I have shifted away from .45 Auto mostly because of ammo cost. In the 1990s and early 2000s a box of .45 was a ten-spot. Now it is almost twice as much. Since, IMO, 1911s work best in that caliber - the one they were designed for - a consequence of this is that I don't own a 1911 and see little reason to get one. Also, I have had nothing but trouble with the ones I did own, including an expensive SIG.
MTMilitiaman
Member
What's there not to like?
How bout a 2.5 lb pistol with 8 shots?
The 1911 is an American icon and not going anywhere soon, but I think perception of the pistol and its cartridge is changing. The average top of the line defensive .45 load creates a wound with a volume of about 15% greater capacity than a similar 9mm load and for this 15% you have to give up over 40% of your capacity as well as increasing your pistol's size and weight by a similar 40%. The cost of not only the pistol, but the ammunition increases as well going from something like my G19 to a 1911. And for what? During a firefight, your fine motor coordination goes to crap. You're not going to appreciate that tuned match trigger on your 1911. You might appreciate going round for round and having 8 of them left in your Glock when the sucker downrange from you is reloading his 1911...
How bout a 2.5 lb pistol with 8 shots?
The 1911 is an American icon and not going anywhere soon, but I think perception of the pistol and its cartridge is changing. The average top of the line defensive .45 load creates a wound with a volume of about 15% greater capacity than a similar 9mm load and for this 15% you have to give up over 40% of your capacity as well as increasing your pistol's size and weight by a similar 40%. The cost of not only the pistol, but the ammunition increases as well going from something like my G19 to a 1911. And for what? During a firefight, your fine motor coordination goes to crap. You're not going to appreciate that tuned match trigger on your 1911. You might appreciate going round for round and having 8 of them left in your Glock when the sucker downrange from you is reloading his 1911...
Chuck R.
Member
I was a died in the wool 1911/.45ACP guy since 1978 when I was issued my 1st one, I bought my own soon after that. Competed with them in several disciplines.
Buuut, now I carry Tupperware and normally in 9mm for a couple reasons.
Every study I've ever read leads me to believe that there's no such thing as a guaranteed 1 round stop handgun cartridge. Since the odds are I will probably have to hit an aggressor more than once, I might as well carry the cartridge/pistol combination that allows me to do it as accurately and as quickly as possible, so for me that's a 9mm. Throw in some weak handed firing drills, and the 9mm starts to make even more sense. As good as I get with a .45ACP, I can get "gooder" with a 9mm.
I also get greater capacity in a smaller lighter package by easing away from the 1911 and .45ACP. In some pistols I roughly double my capacity and still carry less weight.
Finally, I reload, and I can reload 9mm cheaper than .45ACP, not a huge difference, but at 20-25,000 rds a year it adds up. Last class I took (APR/MAY) was a little over 900 rds, even with reloading the difference between .45 bullets and 9mm adds up. Don't know how the non-reloaders do it. There were a couple 1911s in the class, and they were in the minority.
So I've still got 4 .45ACPs (3 1911's and an HK45T), I enjoy shooting them, but I find myself carrying something else now.
Chuck
Buuut, now I carry Tupperware and normally in 9mm for a couple reasons.
Every study I've ever read leads me to believe that there's no such thing as a guaranteed 1 round stop handgun cartridge. Since the odds are I will probably have to hit an aggressor more than once, I might as well carry the cartridge/pistol combination that allows me to do it as accurately and as quickly as possible, so for me that's a 9mm. Throw in some weak handed firing drills, and the 9mm starts to make even more sense. As good as I get with a .45ACP, I can get "gooder" with a 9mm.
I also get greater capacity in a smaller lighter package by easing away from the 1911 and .45ACP. In some pistols I roughly double my capacity and still carry less weight.
Finally, I reload, and I can reload 9mm cheaper than .45ACP, not a huge difference, but at 20-25,000 rds a year it adds up. Last class I took (APR/MAY) was a little over 900 rds, even with reloading the difference between .45 bullets and 9mm adds up. Don't know how the non-reloaders do it. There were a couple 1911s in the class, and they were in the minority.
So I've still got 4 .45ACPs (3 1911's and an HK45T), I enjoy shooting them, but I find myself carrying something else now.
Chuck
guyfromohio
Member
So much "research" and over-thinking such things. Carry or shoot a 1911 maybe because you prefer it? Or simply like it? I love my 1911s, shoot them often, carry them sometimes. They carry very well for their weight and are quite accurate. That being said, I generally have a 9mm PPS or P30SK on my hip. It amazes me that advances in 9mm load tech is somehow translated to a weakening of the .45. .45 is no less effective than it was 100 years ago and 8 rounds is a nice payload.
bikerdoc
Moderator In Memoriam
Ask me my favorite and I must ask "what day of the week it is?" For the past 52 years I bounced between 357 , 45, and 9.
Today was 45 day.
Tomorrow ?
Today was 45 day.
Tomorrow ?
TheWorstKind
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I have several semi-auto pistols in two calibers: 9mm and .45 ACP. Up until the summer of 2015, I solely used .45 ACP (that translates to over 31 years). I strictly used DA/SA pistols (sorry, don't mean to offend the 1911 folks. Fine guns, those). Anyways, so, last year I bought my first 9mm (again, DA/SA), then in January of this year (2016), I decided to see what this "Glock thing" is all about - I bought a Gen 4 Glock 19. I now shoot the 19 more than all of my other pistols combined. I shoot it better than any of my other pistols. The darn thing just works. It has replaced my daily carry gun on the nightstand (though it is only the third go-to-gun at night time, beaten out by my 12ga and AR15). However, my daily carry gun is still my Bersa 45 Thunder UC. I use appendix carry, and, for me, the Glock 19 is just a tad bit too big to be comfortable for all day concealed carry, appendix style. Having said that, if the 19 were comfortable enough, I would not hesitate to make it my first choice for appendix carry. Again, I can shoot the 19 better, faster, cheaper, and it fits my hands (medium back strap with beaver tail) like it was made for me. Additionally, the trigger re-set is fantastic. So, in summation, I shoot a lot more 9mm than .45 ACP nowadays, and I have become a Glock fan.
MutinousDoug
Member
The "volume" of a .45 wound is not +15% greater than a similar .355 wound. Volume is a product of area x length.
The area disrupted by a .452 diameter projectile is not +15% greater than that of a .355 diameter one. It's about 60% greater than the area disrupted by a .355 diameter projectile.
Area= pi x radius^2. (pi x radius squared)
Pi x .452/2^2=.1605 in^2.
Pi x .355/2^2=.0990 in^2.
.0990/.1605=.6168.
61% (=/-). Multiply this by the length of the wound channel and no bonus for anything beyond exit of the projectile past the body in question to get "volume".
This is High School math, or what passed for it 50 years ago. (I don't know what they are teaching for math these days.)
Cheers,
Grumpy
Back in the day, changing my carry gun from a .357 Model 28 6" to a 1911 in .45acp made sense. Thirty-some years later, so did changing to a G30. And a G26. And a Shield. And a 1911 in 9mm.
Being in California and living with 10-round magazines changes the dynamics of the decisions somewhat, but I attempt to carry a gun as much as possible - and to carry enough gun when I carry.
Being in California and living with 10-round magazines changes the dynamics of the decisions somewhat, but I attempt to carry a gun as much as possible - and to carry enough gun when I carry.
buckhorn_cortez
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That's not correct. What that's showing is that .0990 = 61% of .1605.
So, what that really means is that .1605 is 39% larger than .0990.
For .1605 to be 61% larger, the other number would have to be .06259 (39% of .1605).
You subtract 61% from 100% to find out the difference. 100 - 61 = 39, or 39%.
To make it easier to understand, let's simply compare the outer diameter of bullets. A 9mm is .355 and a .45 is .451.
If I divide .355 by .451, I get .787 (.355 / .451 = .787). That means that the 9mm bullet is 78.7% of the diameter of the .45 and NOT that the .45 is 78.7% larger than the 9mm.
To find out how much larger (in percentage) I take 78.7 and subtract that from 100. 100 - 78.7 = 21.3.
So, a .45 caliber bullet diameter is 21.3% larger than a 9mm bullet diameter.
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