.45 GAP real world results?

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Steelharp

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In another thread (Why Carry a .45?), this statement was made:

"EMT's rule of thumb: The guys shot by 9mm's usually live. The guys shot by .40's and .45's usually die."

Now, carrying that effectiveness further... I know it's a really "new" caliber, but are the real world reports coming in about the .45 GAP? How does it fare against our venerable ACP? I'm wondering because I really like the feel of my G17, and the simplicity of a Glock. It would be great to have .45 ACP effectiveness in a Glock package without it being the club thickness of a model 21.

I know, ideal would be a Glock .45 that would use all our 1911 mags that we already own... but that ain't gonna happen... :(
 
And can people differentiate between a 185gr .45gap and a 185gr .45acp by examining the recovered bullet or wound?
 
I feel the same.
I have no documented cases but I imagine if you hit your target correctly, it falls down and dies.
 
At the moment the principal ammunition makers that offer .45GAP ammunition are using the same bullets that they use in the .45ACP, and driving those bullets to the same velocity as the do with standard .45ACP cartridges. Therefore I would expect the same results from either cartridge.

I would suggest that Steelharp look up the data, and then go buy the Glock if that's what he wants. Anything he shoots will never know the difference. :D
 
A .45 GAP is essentially a .45 ACP with a shortened case in un+p velocities.
The same bullets are loaded. The velocities are very close. I see no reason for a difference in effect.

Emergency room personnel and police say people are crazier during the full moon, but no numbers back this up. People remember what they want to remember and are very suggestible as to the meaning of things.
There may be a difference in results from a .45 ACP and a 9x19, but realistically the results must be very close compared to a shotgun, for instance.
 
And can people differentiate between a 185gr .45gap and a 185gr .45acp by examining the recovered bullet or wound?
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probably not since they are using the same bullet at comparable velocity. I suspect that one would need a discarded casing to know the difference.
 
"EMT's rule of thumb: The guys shot by 9mm's usually live. The guys shot by .40's and .45's usually die."
Click to expand...

I thought the EMTs in TN were better educated than that.

Given that the .45 GAP uses the same slugs as .45 acp and given that .45 GAP travels at the same velocities as .45 acp, then there should be no difference in terminal ballistics.
 
"The only difference is the size"
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the pressure is also different. 45GAP is loaded at ACP +P pressures, but (as has been mentioned) gets comparable velocity with the same bullet. Obviously, ACP +P will outperform GAP, but I would think it'd be fine if that's what you want. I wouldn't want to buy range ammo for it though.
 
the pressure is also different. 45GAP is loaded at ACP +P pressures, but (as has been mentioned) gets comparable velocity with the same bullet. Obviously, ACP +P will outperform GAP, but I would think it'd be fine if that's what you want.
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Correct me if I'm wrong as my knowledge is not that vast, but to me that statement didn't make sense.

Everything I have read tells me there ballistically identical. I mean as far as loading goes there both loaded with the same weight in powder, 4-6gr. right?
 
It makes very good sense.

The .45 GAP operates at a higher chamber pressure than the standard pressure .45 ACP. At those higher chamber pressures, the .45 GAP has roughly the same ballistics as the .45 ACP does at standard chamber pressures.

When you increase the .45 ACP to the higher +P chamber pressures, it has a slight ballistic and effectiveness advantage over the .45 GAP. For example, the .45 GAP and standard pressure .45 ACP Ranger T both have a MV of 885 fps (and have identical penetration, expansion and intermediate barrier performance figures). When you up the Ranger to +P, the MV jumps slight over 100 fps to 990 fps, and the penetration, expansion and intermediate barrier figures improve (e.g., 2.5" more penetration against heavy cloth and 1.6" more penetration after auto glass).
 
Joey, since you just proclaimed that your knowledge is not that vast, then why would you feel competent to advise any of us to buy your Yugo over a Glock? :)
 
At least for what I have seen shot out of the Glock GAP, the velocities were comparable, but the GAP is higher pressure? How do you get standard pressure and +P ammo to get similar velocities? Simple, the .45 GAP is set up to achieve the comparable velocity out of a shorter barrel. I don't recall, but isn't it 4.5 or 4.25" for the GAP instead of the standard 5.0 used for the 1911. To get the same velocities from different length barrels with rounds of the same weight and caliber, then you have to have different chamber pressures, more for the shorter barrel.
 
So I heard a presentation from a LEO who was a big deal in police tactical training in Ohio. They found no difference between the calibers.

The variance is actually hitting the guy.
 
Joey, since you just proclaimed that your knowledge is not that vast, then why would you feel competent to advise any of us to buy your Yugo over a Glock?
Click to expand...

WOW!! Yeah, knowledge has so much to do with actual experience!! Man you hit that one right on the head. You wanna know how I can advise such a thing, it's cause I own an XD, and have shot and held a Glock. Can't stand the Glock.

The lack of knowledge I was speaking of is concerning loading, and stuff like that. Since I haven't got into reloading yet I don't know about the whole ACP +P stuff yet. That's what I was refering to.
 
EMT's rule of thumb: The guys shot by 9mm's usually live. The guys shot by .40's and .45's usually die."
END QUOTE

Thats bull crap. There is an actual stat I read once. 75 % of people shot with pistols live 75 % of people shot with longguns die. A 45 does not do much more than a 9mm. This is pure and simple urban legand and I am a 45 fan.
Pat
 
Double Naught Spy -

It's not the barrel length. The MV/ME figures for both the ACP and the GAP are taken out of five-inch barrels (see the ATK and Winchester LE websites). The GAP was designed to be a higher pressure round, period. It probably has more to do with the GAP having a smaller case that is not only shorter but also with somewhat thicker walls leaving less volume internally.
 
Old Fuff Quote – “At the moment the principal ammunition makers that offer .45GAP ammunition are using the same bullets that they use in the .45ACP, and driving those bullets to the same velocity as the do with standard .45ACP cartridges. Therefore I would expect the same results from either cartridge.”

As usual Old Fuff hit the nail on the head.


Joey101 Quote – “You need to shy away from that Glock (won't AIM right for Sh*t) and buy an XD.”

Buy an XD if you want, but my Glock shoots fine.
 
Can't say much about "real World" results of the .45GAP.
I am not even close to being a ballistics expert but what follows is the results quoted from www.cor-bon.com
.45GAP--200gr JHP = 950fps @ 401ftlbs
.45ACP+P--200gr JHP = 1150fps @ 490ftlbs
Other from being built on a smaller platform, why would anyone want a .45GAP? Just curious.
 
The only reason and ostensible reason for its existence--fact that ol' Gaston really didn't want to redesign his fat, plastic magazines so he could reduce the grip size of the G21 (and really wanted his name on a cartridge, to boot) had absolutely nothing to do with it. :)
 
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