45ACP Recoil Overrated?

[CapnMac]

This is complicated business.
230gr rounds are heavier, obviously, than 185gr ones. However, those 230s are also being launched about 890-900fps. The 185s are moving along at closer to 1000fps.

So, the "lighter" rounds are moving faster. The heavier loads are moving slower. I've always found that to balance out, generally. (Back to all recoil is subjective.)
Now the +P 45s can be a tad spicer.
That CCI 200gr 'flying ashtray' which gets to about 1050 fps has some "authority" when launched out of a 1911.

Mind, the size of the firearm seems to matter, too. hat G36 is snappier--to me--than a steel Officers Model. That's me.
Your Mileage May Vary

 

[Lo-Profile]

Recoil is perceived.

Shoot the same round in a 1911 and then in a polymer striker fired gun.
My wife can shoot a 1911 all day long but won't touch a polymer gun with the same round.

 

[1942bull]

Recoil is a matter of physics not perception. Physics tells us they for every action there is an opposite equal reaction. We all know that a bullet once fired out of a gun is propelled by force. That force is measured at the muzzle in foot-pounds. If a bullet generates 1,000 foot pounds at the muzzle. It is also sending an equal force (recoil) rearward. On an endless range the bullet would eventually run out of energy and gravity would make it fall on the ground. At some point in its travel.

The main resistance the bullet encounters is the air, unless the bullet hits something. If it hits something there will be an equal and opposite reaction in the item hit. If a bullet hits a tennis ball the ball is going to travel in an opposite direction of the bullet. If the bullet hits a cinder block the block is also going to travel backward, but there is one factor that limits the distance of travel by the block. The block has greater mass than the tennis ball. That mass absorbs energy and that reduces the rearward movement of the block when compared to the ball.

At the same time the rearward force is driving the gun backward in a blowback design and driving the gun backward and downward (a diagonal force) in a locked breech design. The diagonal movement will cause more muzzle rise which is a reaction to a diagonal force. At the same time the recoil energy is being absorbed by the mass of the gun. The heavier the gun the less less the recoil is felt. The amount of recoil is not changed, the affect of the recoil is by virtue of energy absorption.

Assuming use of identical cartridges in a MilSpec 1911 and in a shorter barrel Polymer frame gun the latter is going to have more felt recoil because there is less mass to absorb the recoil. Factually the recoil is the same in foot-pounds in each gun. The felt experience of recoil is different.

 

[Atavar]

They are just perpetuating the myth that .45acp is a manly man’s cartridge.
These same people promote the myth that motorcycle riding is dangerous when statistically it is safer than a car.
Manly men also don’t drink colored drinks, flavored lite beer or put water or ice in their whisky. They do shake their martinis.

 

[md7]

Hello Y'all!
I saw an old thread talking about recoil differences in 185 and 230 grain 45acp ammo and thought I would start a new discussion on a similar topic. Basically I have a Springfield Mil-Spec 1911 in the Lord's caliber 45ACP and I have shot 230gr+p ammo out of it with barely any recoil. It shoots like a decently loaded 9mm Glock 17 IMHO. So what my point is, is why some people seem to think that 45ACP is a monster cartridge that will destroy your wrists and others like myself, think it's a dang good cartridge (can't beat a 230gr hunk of lead at 950fps) for self defense and has moderate recoil.

Like you, I really enjoy my Mil Spec. Also like you, I can tell very little difference in recoil between the 45 in mine and 9mm from my Glock 19 or Beretta 92.

Why do people think 45 is a beast? Pure speculation but sometimes perception becomes reality. The reputation overtakes actuality maybe. Not sure. Maybe it’s just us…. Maybe we’re not as recoil sensitive as others.

Regardless… I like your style amigo! Keep it up

 

[jag1954]

After shooting both my S&W 460 and 500 the .45ACP compares to a .22.

 

[Zendude]

I wouldn’t say 45 acp is a beast. It does give me a mildly sore wrist the next day after shooting a box of 45 at the range. But so does a 9mm in an 18oz polymer subcompact. A standard pressure 9mm in something in the weight range of a 1911 does not.

 

[45/30-06OKIE]

Like you, I really enjoy my Mil Spec. Also like you, I can tell very little difference in recoil between the 45 in mine and 9mm from my Glock 19 or Beretta 92.

Why do people think 45 is a beast? Pure speculation but sometimes perception becomes reality. The reputation overtakes actuality maybe. Not sure. Maybe it’s just us…. Maybe we’re not as recoil sensitive as others.

Regardless… I like your style amigo! Keep it up

Thanks for the kind words! I did shoot a M9 once and I was taken aback by the crazy feeling recoil impulse since all the weight of the slide is in the rear. It wasn't like it was more than a 40 or 45 but just how the physics work out it seemed very odd. And we were shooting moderate loaded 115gr fmj handloads.

 

[westernrover]

I believe it's because they won't carry steel guns. They evaluate cartridges and their recoil when fired from the lightweight polymer framed compacts and subcompact guns that they would actually carry. And then 45 ACP does recoil too much for most people, and so does 40 S&W. I base "too much" not on how they feel about it, but on what I believe would be the results of measuring their performance. Take a 48 ounce loaded steel 1911 and they will probably do better, but how many will carry that?

 

[jmr40]

I've found that most people have a recoil tolerance. Anything at, or below that level and they simply don't notice any difference. But the mind is a funny thing. While we can't consciously feel the difference, our brains can. It is easy to say that you don't feel any difference in recoil between certain cartridges. And that may be true for a few rounds. But you will reach a point where the brain and body no longer are working together, and accuracy will start to degrade.

 

[CoalCrackerAl]

When im shooting i don't really notice the recoil. I guess it's the last thing on my mind.

 

[45/30-06OKIE]

I believe it's because they won't carry steel guns. They evaluate cartridges and their recoil when fired from the lightweight polymer framed compacts and subcompact guns that they would actually carry. And then 45 ACP does recoil too much for most people, and so does 40 S&W. I base "too much" not on how they feel about it, but on what I believe would be the results of measuring their performance. Take a 48 ounce loaded steel 1911 and they will probably do better, but how many will carry that?

I actually carry my Mil-Spec with an 8rd mec-gar mag in a Bianchi leather holster often and it doesn't really bother me except kinda when sitting in the car but other than that it's fine to carry for a couple hours at a time as I can't carry at work and don't really go out too much so I don't carry it for extended periods of time.

 

[jmr40]

I believe it's because they won't carry steel guns. They evaluate cartridges and their recoil when fired from the lightweight polymer framed compacts and subcompact guns that they would actually carry. And then 45 ACP does recoil too much for most people

This has not been my observation, especially in relation to 1911's. The grip on a 1911 is very narrow and it concentrates recoil into a small area in the palm of my hand. Most double stack plastic pistols have much wider grips which spread the recoil out over much more surface area. Also, the frames on plastic guns flex some when shot further reducing the effects of recoil.

And as much as the grip angle of Glocks is maligned, that grip angle keeps recoil coming back in a straight line with less muzzle flip. I have Glocks in 45 and 10mm. I find full power 10mm loads much more comfortable in my G20 and G29 than typical 45 loads from my 1911's.

So much with recoil is actually between the ears. It doesn't matter if it's rifles, shotguns, or handguns. We can convince ourselves that some guns have more, or less, recoil than they really do.

 

[9mmepiphany]

I did shoot a M9 once and I was taken aback by the crazy feeling recoil impulse since all the weight of the slide is in the rear. It wasn't like it was more than a 40 or 45 but just how the physics work out it seemed very odd.

Much of the difference in feel of the Beretta M9/92 has to do with the non-tilting barrel

 

[45/30-06OKIE]

Much of the difference in feel of the Beretta M9/92 has to do with the non-tilting barrel

Ahh, interesting. I haven't heard that aspect of the M9 recoil wise, I was always under the impression that the slide mass being in the rear was most of the issue. So would a fixed barrel 1911 have worse Recoil impulse then? I would think so but it would not be a 1911 anymore lol.

 

[Hangingrock]

I first fired the 1911A1 45ACP in 1964 at MCRD Parris Island SC in 1964. I have jokingly said and written that I've fired since then enough 45ACP to fill several 55-Gal drums with the empties. I'll also admit that as this is written I fire more 9X19mm because it is more cost effective. Thats my story.

 

[45/30-06OKIE]

I first fired the 1911A1 45ACP in 1964 at MCRD Parris Island SC in 1964. I have jokingly said and written that I've fired since then enough 45ACP to fill several 55-Gal drums with the empties. I'll also admit that as this is written I fire more 9X19mm because it is more cost effective. Thats my story.

Thank you for serving our country sir! I have always wondered what happens to all the brass y'all fire at the range... Does the government auction that stuff off or anything?

 

[9mmepiphany]

I haven't heard that aspect of the M9 recoil wise, I was always under the impression that the slide mass being in the rear was most of the issue.

So would a fixed barrel 1911 have worse Recoil impulse then? I would think so but it would not be a 1911 anymore lol.

There is no connection between those two statements as the Beretta doesn't have a fixed barrel.

However the H&K P9 had a barrel which did not reciprocate with the slide during recoil...it wasn't fixed as it was removable with the slide...and it's felt recoil was much lighter than a 1911. But that had more to do with it's roller-delayed system than it's barrel being fixed.

The advantage of the Beretta's locking block system is the it runs more smoothly than tilting barrel systems. The Beretta 92/96 pistols are some of the smoothest shooting pistols I've ever spent time with. It's system was so reliable that for many years it was the preferred pistol to modify for use with blanks for movies

 

[45/30-06OKIE]

There is no connection between those two statements as the Beretta doesn't have a fixed barrel.

However the H&K P9 had a barrel which did not reciprocate with the slide during recoil...it wasn't fixed as it was removable with the slide...and it's felt recoil was much lighter than a 1911. But that had more to do with it's roller-delayed system than it's barrel being fixed.

The advantage of the Beretta's locking block system is the it runs more smoothly than tilting barrel systems. The Beretta 92/96 pistols are some of the smoothest shooting pistols I've ever spent time with. It's system was so reliable that for many years it was the preferred pistol to modify for use with blanks for movies

Ohhh, I see. I misread and misunderstood what you said... I saw non tilting and in my mind I thought fixed, like a Makarov barrel. So I apologize. I appreciate your response though.

 

[armydog]

So much with recoil is actually between the ears. It doesn't matter if it's rifles, shotguns, or handguns. We can convince ourselves that some guns have more, or less, recoil than they really do.

I think you're right about that. I'm more focused on getting back on target immediately than anything else and that goes for anything I shoot. I don't have time to worry about recoil. lol

 

[Charlie98]

Comparing a locked breech pistol to a blowback… blowback pistols typically have a heavier slide to slow the opening of the breech… more weight headed to the rear during recoil. I have a Colt .380 Government, my brother has a Walther PPk/s… with the same ammos, the Walther fairly cracks your hand, while the locked breech Colt a much milder recoil impulse. That follows the description of the P7 above… delayed blowback.

I have 2 almost identical .45’s… 4” Kimbers… one stainless, one alloy. I can tell you the alloy pistol recoils more simply because of the lighter weight… all else being about as equal as you can get. Nothing out of hand or uncontrollable, but it’s noticeable. Because of this, I typically shoot 200grn hand loads in the alloy frame, and save the 230’s for the stainless pistol.

 

[SDGlock23]

Short answer is yes, I've heard people talk about the .45 as though it were some kind of cannon when in reality it's not bad at all. I think many would say the .40 recoils more than the .45 does, but it's true that some people handle recoil differently and maybe think the .45 kicks a lot. Compared to a .22 I guess it does but to me not bad at all.

 

[DeepSouth]

I certainly think the 45 acp recoil is frequently over stated, I also say that about my 7mag.

That said I’m not willing to argue with anyone about it, recoil is (or at least can be) fairly subjective and based on other variables, some of which are unknown.

So it’s kind of “different strokes for different folks”

 

[Kevin Rohrer]

So what my point is, is why some people seem to think that 45ACP is a monster cartridge that will destroy your wrists and others like myself, think it's a dang good cartridge (can't beat a 230gr hunk of lead at 950fps) for self defense and has moderate recoil.

It has a bit of recoil, depending on the load. But managing recoil in this gun is a training issue.

As for answering your question, my response as to why some cannot manage that cartridge in a 1911 would be R-rated and NSFW.

 

[45/30-06OKIE]

It has a bit of recoil, depending on the load. But managing recoil in this gun is a training issue.

As for answering your question, my response as to why some cannot manage that cartridge in a 1911 would be R-rated and NSFW.

Yeah that's kinda what I was getting at when I posed this question... Like a super light weight and small 45acp may have a decent amount of recoil, but in a full size 1911 is a dream like with my Mil-Spec. I also believe that most people if they actually shot a 9mm Glock 17 and a 45acp Government 1911 back to back they would be hard pressed to tell a difference recoil wise cause a 1911 weighs so much comparatively.