45ACP Recoil Overrated?

[JDeere]

I do, however, think 'your drill times' will have an effect on your actions and how well you are able to execute draw, present, and deliver accurate fire... even with a firearm that has 'snappy recoil,' etc... over someone who never trains.

Agreed, and there are many out there who have very little training and range time...

 

[Hartkopf]

Strangely, some of my most accurate drills were shot with a Glock 30. Times were just slightly slower but I was back on target with follow up shots better than with a g17. Need more testing.

 

[mcb]

I would argue your drill times do mater. Not that the drill itself and how fast you shoot it is directly meaningful in a self defense situation but that someone that has trained, practiced, and even competed, with their firearm and has drilled all the basic functions like draw, shoot, reload, malfunction clearing, recoil management, etc until they are second nature has a distinct advantage over someone that has not.

When you get into a life or death situation the less you have to consciously think about how to operate your weapon the more brain power you have free to make the best decision to get yourself out of that bad situation alive. This is true if we are talking about self-defense, driving, running heavier equipment etc. Your ability to do the routine as second nature (almost instinct level) allows you more mental capacity to deal with the unusual.

 

[JR24]

Strangely, some of my most accurate drills were shot with a Glock 30. Times were just slightly slower but I was back on target with follow up shots better than with a g17. Need more testing.

I have the same results with a Glock 21. HK45c I can get splits almost to my 9mms as well, but it’s harder to make it work and stay accurate.

I guess that’s one of the points, I can get very close results with bigger calibers, in terms of speed and accuracy compared to a 9mm, but as a whole I find it much easier with the 9mm, and I do think that can have an advantage if needed. Less I have to focus on the gun, the better advantage I might have when everything else is going on.

Of course, I say this with a .45 on my hip, because they are all so close I have confidence in any of them.

 

[brutus51]

Lately my favorite CCW is a 38 Super but for home defense the 45ACP has been my first choice for almost 50 years, reason being, big & slow is the way to go, the muzzle flash won't blind me in the dark and the report won't blow out my eardrums. add to that it's extremely accurate. Just my 2 cents.

 

[JR24]

Lately my favorite CCW is a 38 Super but for home defense the 45ACP has been my first choice for almost 50 years, reason being, big & slow is the way to go, the muzzle flash won't blind me in the dark and the report won't blow out my eardrums. add to that it's extremely accurate. Just my 2 cents.

True, hope you don’t need to use that Super in your car

 

[Mosin77]

When I shoot most 9mm pistols I feel like the gun is trying to jump out of my hand. When I shoot a .45 1911 it recoils but not in the same way. But I can absolutely see why 9mm offers faster follow-ups.

 

[Charlie98]

When I shoot most 9mm pistols I feel like the gun is trying to jump out of my hand. When I shoot a .45 1911 it recoils but not in the same way.

It's interesting you mention that. My daily carry piece is a Kahr CW9... a single-stack poly 9, it's pretty light. However, the pistol fits my hand so well, very much like a mini-1911, that I don't have problems with 9mm recoil in such a light pistol. I think there is a trade-off between size and weight, and a person's ability to handle the recoil. I don't know if I would be able to shoot a double-stack poly 9 as well, because I've found most hicap 9's don't fit my hand well. I can shoot my 1911's nearly as well, but I wonder if my times would be different because of the added weight of the loaded pistol.

There have been some interesting comments here... I'm thinking about getting a shot timer so I can time myself with different weapons just to see.

 

[BLACKHAWKNJ]

Again. very subjective. Years ago in one National Guard battalion I was in, I had a Colt Combat Commander, one NCO had a Combat Commander, everyone who got to fire both said they liked mine better. I am no shrimp, 5'10", fairly muscular but I prefer the Feel of Steel.

 

[redcon1]

When I was younger, I felt like .45 acp was pretty stout especially in my Combat Commander. When I got older, I bought a Glock 21 and felt the recoil was insignificant. I have a Glock 21 converted to 460 rowland now and it's like a jackhammer but still not what I would call unpleasant or likely to cause me to flinch. It feels good really. Last time I shot the Combat Commander, it still felt stout compared to a Glock 21. Now when I was a child, I learned to shoot on a model 25 in 45 acp and .45 autorim and I was pretty flinchy. A 9mm would probably have been better.

 

[RA40]

I've found that most people have a recoil tolerance. Anything at, or below that level and they simply don't notice any difference. But the mind is a funny thing. While we can't consciously feel the difference, our brains can. It is easy to say that you don't feel any difference in recoil between certain cartridges. And that may be true for a few rounds. But you will reach a point where the brain and body no longer are working together, and accuracy will start to degrade.

+1

I've noticed that my head is telling me something if I begin to flinch after shooting X caliber. .40, 10mm and .357 will do that. If there were some reciprocating mass with the .357 and say the 1911 style grip angle, I may not have such a reaction. Hot .357's that flash out the cylinder gap enhances that flinch. I don't shoot 10mm, and suffice .44mag I don't touch.

Getting to the .45 ACP, the flat firing pin stop helps in my perceived mentality of recoil. I have 185, 200 and 230g loads and to me there is a slight difference. Similar to the 124g and 147g 9mm loads. Between 115g and 124g not really discernible. All depends what brings the smiles while out. None of us would enjoy long term sessions that resulted in blisters, sore joints that takes days to recover from.

 

[TTv2]

Something I noticed about the LG testing, is that they used basically the shortest barrel handguns in existence for their gel tests... A Kahr has like a just barely 3" barrel I think and that is what they used for the 45acp test.

Their point in doing that was if someone was using a longer barrel the bullets that did expand would still expand. I would like to see a retest with full size pistols and 5 inch barrels, but LG isn't going to do that. Even if they did the results would just be that which expanded would expand more and penetrate less and that which didn't expand in the short barrels might w/ the longer barrel.

 

[JR24]

Their point in doing that was if someone was using a longer barrel the bullets that did expand would still expand. I would like to see a retest with full size pistols and 5 inch barrels, but LG isn't going to do that. Even if they did the results would just be that which expanded would expand more and penetrate less and that which didn't expand in the short barrels might w/ the longer barrel.

Plus you can find these tests from folks like TNOutdoors for most any load you’d want tested.

 

[Riomouse911]

Is the .45 ACP recoil in a 1911 pistol overrated? I don’t think so.

Did many, many GI’s shoot one as the very first handgun they ever shot and were surprised by the recoil? Sure. Honestly I think this is where many of the “legendary recoil of the cigar-butt sized .45” stories were hatched.

I think that much like a rifle or shotgun; the guns fit to you has the most to do with how recoil is felt. Me, I like the 1911’s recoil impulse in both .45 and 9mm. Alloy frame or steel; to me the 1911 feels so good in my mitts I don’t notice the recoil as bad in either caliber… even in my SA .45 Super the recoil is pleasant. Now shooting .45 in a large frame, double stack Glock or USP? I don’t like the recoil feel of the .45 with those guns much at all.

Stay safe.

 

[Charlie98]

...sorry, I couldn't help it.

 

[Riomouse911]

View attachment 1046440

...sorry, I couldn't help it.

If they’da just used AR 500 instead of scrap plate the steel targets woulda lasted longer!

Stay safe.

 

[halfmoonclip]

A late buddy always said a Government was the best way to shoot .45s, as compared to a Commander or Officers.
I did have an alloy Commander, and it truly wasn't a whole lot of fun to shoot. Neither was a .45 Defender. Now a Combat Commander is another matter, as is a steel Officers.
Been in the habit of loading 230s down a little, maybe 50'sec off full hardball.
Forty fives in a 325 (alloy frame, Ti cylinder) really aren't much fun, but my usual softball loads aren't bad in a steel 625.
Now if you want a test of manhood, shoot magnums in a 340 SC; 11oz .357.
Moon

 

[Charlie98]

Now if you want a test of manhood, shoot magnums in a 340 SC; 11oz .357.

I had a Model 60 for a while... a 3" with a full lug, in .38SPC. It was a nice enough gun to shoot with .38's. Later, S&W made this basic pistol in .357. There is NO WAY I would want to shoot that pistol in .357...

 

[crestoncowboy]

Depends entirely on the gun too. Weight, bore axis, material (aluminum/ steel/ polymer) . I have 45s in a mk 23 that has zero recoil (but weights a ton) 1911s that are a bit of recoil but even in 10 aren't bad at all, sig 220 that are mild, and some oddballs like a p97dc that is pretty high bore axis and quite snappy. I even have one hi point... and it's the 45.

Our county guys carried the Glock 21 (45) for about 10 years before going to the 40 (and this year the 9). Yet when any of them would shoot the state guys Beretta 96 (or later 229 in 357 sig) they would cry about the terrible super bad recoil. Lol. Polymer does absorb, but steel is heavy. I believe aluminum to be the worst choice for recoil (but perhaps a great choice for a compromise of weight and durability)

I have the 329pd in 44 magnum. My 500 or 460 are very tame compared to that one. Ive had career LE guys (who are shooters) throw in the towel before getting a full cylinder through it. Of course I had the ahrends wood grips on it for them. Ive hunted with 10mm/44 mag/454 and later 460 and 500 handguns for many years. Tens of thousands of rounds. The only gun to ever bruise my hand was the 329pd. I didn't notice it at the time but the day after 100 rounds or so I had a nice bruise. I had replaced the terrible v notch rear sight with a proper u. Lol

 

[crestoncowboy]

There have been some interesting comments here... I'm thinking about getting a shot timer so I can time myself with different weapons just to see.

There are some decent ones free to download for your phone. No substitute for a good competition one if you compete but plenty good for your curiosity. I never drag out my real timer anymore.

 

[John Joseph]

In a full size steel 1911, .45ACP recoil is milder thay you'd expect. Held correctly and firing standard velocity ammunition, it's more of a push than a kick

 

[Charlie98]

There are some decent ones free to download for your phone. No substitute for a good competition one if you compete but plenty good for your curiosity. I never drag out my real timer anymore.

I've been looking for a nice app... haven't found one. Most are either geared to airsoft (for some reason) or are for use with proprietary hardware.

If you have a good one in mind... I'm all ears.

 

[crestoncowboy]

Mine just says ipsc shot timer. Was free, has all the different options too. Can be set to random start or first shot start. Com stock, Virginia etc etc. I had to Google what each meant. Lol.

 

[crestoncowboy]

Even in the big aluminum alloy guns it's pretty mild. Sig 220 for example.

The small guns are the only ones id worry about getting snappy. Even then it's not going to hurt. Just going to kill split times. But if split time are your primary concern you already screwed up choosing a 45

 

[WisBorn]

On a little different note. I have always used 230 grain HP'S for defense in my 45acp's. And 230 grain FMJ'S for targets.
I was getting low on HP'S and stopped at a couple of shops to pick some up. The only defense loads I could find are 185 grain HP'S. I'm looking forward to function and accuracy testing the 185s. I'm not to worried about how they will perform compared to the 230s.