5.7x28: Inform me

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Aaryq

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Howdy folks. An FN P90 sounds really fun, but I don't think they're in my price range and with me being a lefty, it's probably not a good idea. I've heard some nifty things about the 5.7x28 cartridge though. I have some questions for you.

Are there any other firearms chambered in 5.7x28?
What is the maximum effective range for this cartridge with a rifle length barrel and with a pistol length barrel?
How well would it work for varmints?

Thanks.
 
the Fn Five Seven pistol
its not really for varmits, but yeah it would probably kill them.
i can't remember the stats off the top of my head but theirs another FN fan on here that might. its hot though.
 
My favorite handgun

I am an FN FiveseveN enthusiast (to put it mildly):)

It is an awesome handgun (despite the anti's) and the advantage of having a 20round magazine available is a bonus. The 4.9" barrel makes for a very accurate gun and I have read reports (no personal experience doing it yet) of hitting targets at 100yds by sitting and resting the gun on the knees.
Due to the high velocity, the bullet has a very flat trajectory, making it accurate over longer distances than the 'average' handgun with same barrel length.
The 5.7x28mm round has very low recoil and tracking back on target is fast, making for tight groupings, even with rapid fire.
Yes, it does not have to 'stopping power' of a .40 or .45, but with the inherent accuracy and good shot placement (x20):neener:, it is as good as most guns to eliminate any threat.
Only down side on this for me, is the cost of ammo. Makes for expensive practice. But I guess, if you are into reloading, you can soften the blow somewhat. There is good quality commercial reloads available. I can point you in the right direction,if interested.
More information available at these two forums as well:-
http://www.fivesevenforum.net/
http://www.fnforum.net/

Good luck and a provisional welcome to the 5.7 club :D
 
It's a nifty round, but the Russians had that idea a long time ago. Called it the 7.62x25 tok.
 
"Only down side on this for me, is the cost of ammo. Makes for expensive practice."

yeah, dad just got his 50 rd. mag for the P90 and complained about not having enough money to shoot it! we have both and their awsome!
 
Think .22 WRM performance out of the pistol
.22 Hornet performance out of the rifle.

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rcmodel
 
"I've heard rumors of cheap wolf 5.7x28. 5.7 at 9mm prices? I hope so!"

Me TOO!!! dad is going to start leaving certain guns out for me to practice with, but he said he wouldn't leave out either FN 'cause the ammo was to exspensive (even though i told him i would buy it myself) but if its cheaper then that will rock! *grin* he told me that if i liked the glock 31 i could have it as my bedside gun (right now its my Model 19) i told him that i didn't want it. i wonder if i shoot the FN real good, he'll let me have that instead? *grin* i doubt it, but its worth a shot!
 
Anyone have comparison data on 5.7x28's brass+cartridge to 7.62x25? Both length and base width?

I'd love to see a p90 rechambered for Tokarev. Out of a 10" barrel it would pack some wallop. 50 rounds of that would be one fun gun and cheaper to shoot than 5.7x28. I am sure FN would wet its pants.

-T
 
The P90 is full auto so unless you're an LEO or similar, think again. You CAN get a PS90 though. The P90-length barrel requires you to SBR it, but I understand the PS90 comes with a non-SBR barrel. This is one of the best guns for lefties though; it was designed from the outset to be fully (and I mean FULLY) ambidextrous.
 
H&k also has a hyper vilocity round comeing out soon. apperently they were very upset that FN got the Five Seven out first. the round is the same that they used for a cassless ammo gun that never got beyond the proto type stage. The H&K UCP (ultimate combat pistol) 4.6x30 mm.
 
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"have comparison data on 5.7x28's brass+cartridge to 7.62x25? Both length and base width"


AHEM . . .. . . ;) . . methinks the data is right at your fingertips:p

1. 5.7mm bullet calibre. .. 28mm cartridge lenght

2. 6.72mm bullet calibre....... 25mm cartridge length

:neener:
 
"I've heard rumors of cheap wolf 5.7x28. 5.7 at 9mm prices? I hope so!"

not yet that Iam aware of. Fiocchi so far is the only lincensed manufacturer for FN
 
1. 5.7mm bullet calibre. .. 28mm cartridge lenght
2. 6.72mm bullet calibre....... 25mm cartridge length

Oh how astute of you.

That'll be mighty helpful when determining the bolt face diameter and geometry, and the OAL for the cartridge.

You've quote me the brass length and marketing number for the bullet's width, both of which are useless for what Im looking for.

-T
 
Ambidextrous, correct!
The empties fall out under the rear grip. (Straight down) Although it’s a strange feeling if you have a pot belly like mine. They bounce off, until you adjust yourself.
 
Ambi, yes. Ammo cost?

Cheaper than most things these days, and available.

If you check around the usual suspects they all show 5.7x28 in stock while .223 and .308 are gone.

Although it’s a strange feeling if you have a pot belly like mine. They bounce off, until you adjust yourself.

FN makes a cool little bag that clips under the carbine to catch all those empties. Makes it very easy for reloaders like myself.

Are there any other firearms chambered in 5.7x28?

There is a handgun, the Five-Seven also from FN. FN also says they will introduce a bolt action rifle chambered in the round after the first of the year.

How well would it work for varmints?

Jackrabbits do not care for it one bit, but I haven't had the chance to try it on coyote yet. This winter I plan to. I think it will be fine out to a reasonable distance.... 100, 125 yards or so.
 
What is the maximum effective range for this cartridge with a rifle length barrel and with a pistol length barrel?
Some would say it isn't effective (at least for defense against people) and you'd get a bigger wound with a fmj 9mm round. I tend to think those people know what they're talking about. It might make a good varmint gun though.
 
Some would say it isn't effective (at least for defense against people) and you'd get a bigger wound with a fmj 9mm round.

That's probably why the Secret Service adopted the P90, because the round is totally ineffective.
 
"The 5.7x28mm, essentially a centerfire .22, is a rimless (even lightly recessed), bottleneck cartridge. While many American law enforcement agencies have purchased the USG, commercial sales have been brisk throughout the country as well. Many officers have purchased this weapon for off-duty carry, citing magazine capacity, lethality and light weight as the selling points."
thats from guns and ammo
the 5x& is not a round i would want to get shot with and it is not a varmit round.
 
That's probably why the Secret Service adopted the P90, because the round is totally ineffective.
Among the other differences the secret service also gets to have the spiffy AP ammo that you and I cannot get. So yes if you're operating with a team of guys with several different styles of weapons and you can get AP ammo and see the potential need for defeating soft armor while inflicting less damage than a 5.56 rifles would do... maybe there's a reason to consider it. For you and me though, its unlikely.

http://www.tacticalforums.com/cgi-bin/tacticalubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=78;t=000050
Dr. Roberts said:
Other than being able to perforate soft body armor, the 5.7 x 28 mm used in the FN P90, as well as the 4.6 x 30 mm fired from the HK MP7 cause wounds less incapacitating than those made by 9 mm FMJ fired from a pistol.

I have personally fired the 5.7 x 28 mm FN P-90; velocity, penetration, and tissue destruction is like a .17 Hornet--far less than we see with 75 gr TAP or 77 MK out of our M4’s. Winchester RA45T 230 gr JHP’s fired from our duty 1911’s crush more tissue and penetrate further than the 5.7 x 28 mm. Use of the 5.7 x 28 mm is a good way to ensure mission failure.

Several papers have described the incredibly poor terminal performance of projectiles fired by the FN P90.

--Dahlstrom D, Powley K, and Gordon C: “Wound Profile of the FN Cartridge (SS 190) Fired from the FN P90 Submachine Gun". Wound Ballistic Review. 4(3):21-26; Spring 2000.

--Fackler M: "Errors & Omissions", Wound Ballistic Review. 1(1):46; Winter 1991.

--Fackler M: "More on the Bizarre Fabrique National P-90", Wound Ballistic Review. 3(1):44-45; 1997.

--FBI Academy Firearms Training Unit. FBI Handgun Ammunition Tests 1989-1995. Quantico, U.S. Department of Justice--Federal Bureau of Investigation.

--Hayes C: “Personal Defense Weapons—Answer in Search of a Question”, Wound Ballistic Review. 5(1):30-36; Spring 2001.

--Roberts G: “Preliminary Evaluation of the Terminal Performance of the 5.7 x 28 mm 23 Grain FMJ Bullet Fired by the New FN P-90 , Using 10% Ordnance Gelatin as a Tissue Simulant”, AFTE Journal. 30(2):326-329, Spring 1998.

--Roberts G: “Terminal Performance of the 5.7 x 28 mm 31 Grain SS-190 FMJ Bullet Fired by the FN P-90 in 10% Ordnance Gelatin.”, AFTE Journal. In Press.

The early 5.7 x 28 mm 23 gr FMJ bullet fired by the FN P-90 had insufficient penetration for law enforcement and military use. The current 31 gr SS-190 FMJ bullet has nearly adequate penetration, but the wound resulting from this projectile has a relatively small permanent crush cavity, as well as an insignificant temporary stretch cavity. Although the 5.7 x 28 mm penetrates soft body armor, wounding potential is at best like a .22 LR or .22 Magnum. Even 9mm NATO FMJ makes a larger wound--and we are all aware of the awe inspiring incapacitation potential of M882 ball from the M9......

Numerous other projectiles commonly used for law enforcement and military special operations applications, such as a good 9mm, .40 S&W, or .45 ACP JHP, the better 5.56 x 45 mm BTHP/JSP loads, as well as 12 gauge shotgun slugs and 00 buckshot, all provide better penetration, crush more tissue, and have far greater potential to reliably physiologically incapacitate an aggressor than the 5.7 x 28 mm 31 gr SS-190 FMJ bullet fired by the FN P-90. Law enforcement agencies and military special operations units are strongly urged to avoid adoption of this weapon system.
 
Several papers have described the incredibly poor terminal performance of projectiles fired by the FN P90.

--Fackler M: "Errors & Omissions", Wound Ballistic Review. 1(1):46; Winter 1991.

See this is one of the problems LOL.

Fackler tested the 5.7x28 in 1991? It did not go into service until 1994.

So, what did he test? he tested the early version of the round, in Full Metal Jacket. The 23 grain FMJ was abandoned before the round went into full production. That was called SS90, and was never sold on the market.

Preliminary Evaluation of the Terminal Performance of the 5.7 x 28 mm 23 Grain FMJ

All of these test results are with an FMJ bullet, required because of the Hague Conventions. Military use of the FMJ 5.7x28 is not recommended, that's all those tests show.

Winchester RA45T 230 gr JHP’s fired from our duty 1911’s crush more tissue and penetrate further than the 5.7 x 28 mm.

Yes I suspect a 230gr JHP would perform better than an FMJ in 5.7x28.... there's a shockingly fair test huh?

There's no real information in all that stuff you posted.........it is tests performed on ammo that was never actually sold.


Alrighty then :)
 
Alright you name the round and I'll see if I can pick on it a little bit ;) Perhaps there is a load that offers sufficient penetration and a fragmentation/expansion that I haven't seen yet.

Yes I suspect a 230gr JHP would perform better than an FMJ in 5.7x28
I don't think most people are under that impression. I think most people interested in the round are expecting rifle like 5.56 style performance complete with fragmentation and nasty wound cavities.
 
think most people interested in the round are expecting rifle like 5.56 style performance complete with fragmentation and nasty wound cavities.

Well I think that would be a mistake for sure. In the end it's a handgun round. Available in a nice little carbine maybe, but it's a handgun round.

Perhaps there is a load that offers sufficient penetration and a fragmentation/expansion that I haven't seen yet.

Well that's the problem, it doesn't appear that much testing has been done other than the initial loadings. It may very well suck in testing, but I don't think anyone has done any especially on the V Max bullets now in use for non LEO purposes.

I'm not saying the round is great for defensive use, but I am saying that there isn't any real data one way or the other besides the Fackler stuff, and the dentist turned ballistics expert Roberts.
 
So all the ballistics guys are saying this round isn't all that hot, no one can show any tests where a load in this caliber displays sufficient wounding, but you say they're wrong, its a fine round with clearly sufficient wounding potential but you just can't tell what the load is that delivers it?
 
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