5-Shot Snub: Enough Gun?

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I carried a $36 Davis .22 mag o/u derringer in work situations where a firearm would lead to fired/criminal carges. I felt adequately armed given the parameters. I am retired now and carry a CZ P07 with 15 rds on board. I have several SW 640/642 revolvers which are my "alternate carry" guns in situations where a full size gun is hard to hide (beach/dress up etc.) Being armed is what is important, giving more options than the other 19 out of 20 folks. Joe
 
"I always found the smaller guns harder to quickly get a good/proper grip on and up and running, or to shoot as well with, no matter what the distance".

I think that is probably a function of hand size. I have small hands, so P35 and 1911 grips 'feel' too big for me while the Browning 85% 1911-380/22 grips and Herrett J-frame Conversion grips feel just right. I bet your hands are bigger than mine.
 
"In general, criminals are not violent at all and prefer to accomplish their crimes with minimal risk to themselves".

I agree with the second half of that statement and disagree with the first half.
Recently my older brother woke up in the wee hours because of a home invader beating him in the face with a metal bar. Why would the guy do that if he weren't inherently violent?

Fortunately, my brother sleeps with a J-frame in his bed, so the invader broke off the attack and left. I take that as evidence of the invader's desire to minimise risk to himself.
 
"But does that mean your 5 shot ultra light 340PD is your new EDC because of how light weight it is?"

In my case (modded 637-2), light weight is a really significant factor - outweighed only by the importance of the exposed hammer.
 
Amateurs think (or talk) equipment,
Students think techniques,
Masters think tactics!

John Holschen of Insights.
Exactly, and you're not gonna see the masters debating tactics on an internet forum. Learning tactics and technique's requires hands on effort and expense. It's a lot easier (and therefore more popular) to sit in a chair and debate the theoretical merits of Glock vs. the world, AR vs. AK, snub vs. micro 9, shotgun vs. carbine etc., etc., etc. ad nauseum.
 
I have several SW 640/642 revolvers which are my "alternate carry" guns in situations where a full size gun is hard to hide (beach/dress up etc.)
I bought a 642 fifteen years ago because it would fit into a jeans pocket.

I later realized that pants pocket carry did not lend itself to effective defensive use, and I changed to a waistband holster.

And then one day, I put my Ruger SR9c down next to my 642. There was very little difference in any dimension.
 
While it is a side issue, I tore my hair out (haha, not much there) trying to get folks to train up. They would put a Taurus 85 in their pocket (because it was cheap), shoot a box at the range once a year and think that's it. Maybe it would be for the classic one mugger situation. It wasn't sufficient for me. There were many great training venues around us - couldn't get these guys out there. They said, just pull the gun out.
 
Again - just because it keeps coming up - the argument is not that no one is ever going to face multiple, determined attackers who don't break off the attack even after being shot multiple times. The argument is that such events are so incredibly rare - especially for private citizens, as opposed to cops - that reasonable people can be forgiven for deciding not to prepare for them.

Put another way: no matter what you carry, it is easy to find multiple examples of a scenario where you will be outgunned.
 
That is true but the problem is the folks who deny the more extreme incident will occur. They then mock those who carry more as delusional. If one admits that the gun is limited to the one or two close in incident and not optimal beyond that, we would have no problems. Nor are the folks who deny that dress or NPEs sometime necessitate something like a J frame or semi pocket gun. Plus those who claim that the Js or similar as easy to shoot or reload in real time.

In my life, I've had two four opponent and one two opponent possible incidents that clever avoidance and problem attitude managed to defuse. If it had gone south, the J would have not been optimal. I carry one when restricted as mentioned above.

It so easy - carry the J to play the odds of the single opponent, or constrained dress. Realize that if you could a modern semi and an extra mag is close to a reasonable level for more situations, even a rare one. Realize that your square range group is not all there is.
 
I've only had one armed incident (I myself, wasn't armed).
My Dad had over a dozen between the end of WWII and his death. For him a J sufficed, he never needed more than two shots for any incident, and after the war, he never killed anybody.

That, together with the fact that my three Js eject and reload fairly quickly (average about 3 seconds) lead me to the conclusion that my J is reasonable and adequate for my needs.
20210309_095610.jpg
 
Again - just because it keeps coming up - the argument is not that no one is ever going to face multiple, determined attackers who don't break off the attack even after being shot multiple times. The argument is that such events are so incredibly rare...
The data seem to indicate taht wit good reason, two attackers will be as likely as one. We have discussed that at length over the years.

And the argument us also this:
With typical gunfight hit rates, and assuming it takes two hits to stop an attacker, then in a single attacker scenario, the chances of achieving success with 5 shots is less than 50%. We don't need to talk about 3 determined attackers or liken ourselves to movie action heroes before we get into scenarios where the chances of failure start to look alarming.

That does not comfort me.
 
I agree with the second half of that statement and disagree with the first half.
Recently my older brother woke up in the wee hours because of a home invader beating him in the face with a metal bar. Why would the guy do that if he weren't inherently violent?
Non-violent crime outnumbers violent crime by at least 3 to 1--probably vastly more than that since a lot of non-violent crime is not even reported or tracked. That is why I said: "In general..." The comment was made that we shouldn't worry about determined attackers because they are in the minority but the fact is that violent criminals are also in the minority and yet we are still worried about them or we wouldn't be talking about carrying guns.
Recently my older brother woke up in the wee hours because of a home invader beating him in the face with a metal bar. Why would the guy do that if he weren't inherently violent?

Fortunately, my brother sleeps with a J-frame in his bed, so the invader broke off the attack and left. I take that as evidence of the invader's desire to minimise risk to himself.
If you don't understand the difference between a specific case and the general case then there must be many topics that confuse you.

Nothing I've said could reasonably be construed to mean that there are no violent criminals or that there aren't criminals who care little about the risks they take to commit their crimes. To the contrary, the whole point of my comments is that there absolutely are such people and also that it is very important to consider their existence when choosing a self-defense weapon.
 
Put another way: no matter what you carry, it is easy to find multiple examples of a scenario where you will be outgunned.

Considering that the OP introduced the thread as him considering carrying a J-frame in a Mika pocket holster in a front pants pocket... it would be a challenge to draw if an adversary is already pointing a loaded gun at you.
 
I always found the smaller guns harder to quickly get a good/proper grip on and up and running, or to shoot as well with, no matter what the distance. The smaller the gun, the less there is to work with, and all around.




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Chicken or egg.
They are difficult to shoot well so you spend more time with a larger and easier gun to shoot.
 
5 shots will take care of 99% of social encounters IMO.
Yes, I agree. However, if you consider the idea of a firearm has a usage template similar to a fire extinguisher, then would you want a fire extinguisher that would only work on non-grease fires and an effective time of 90 seconds or one the same (or smaller size), same or less cost that be effective no more types of fires and an effective time of 200 seconds?
For me, I am totally convinced that a name brand semi-automatic is more reliable and more effective than a revolver. At the local range, I see that the people that shoot revolvers usually never have good groups, not sure of the reason, but revolver people may just not go to ranges very often.
 
Chicken or egg.
They are difficult to shoot well so you spend more time with a larger and easier gun to shoot.
Not really, I still shoot both regularly, which just reinforces that the bigger guns ARE easier to quickly and properly get ahold of and shoot.

I dont dislike the snubbies, I was shooting one of my 19's this morning, which itself is better than my J frames in the above respect, but Im not fooling myself into believing that they are on the same level as something like my 17, or 4" revolvers either. They arent.
 
"but revolver people may just not go to ranges very often".

That may be true. I'm 81 and I've only been to a range two times.
I mostly used revolvers for hunting.
 
I wouldnt say its just a revolver people problem. A lot of people are carrying guns, and that's about the level of real experience, just "carrying" the gun in some manner.

Kind of scary when you think about it, but it is what it is I guess.
 
"For me, I am totally convinced that a name brand semi-automatic is more reliable and more effective than a revolver".

Not trying to start an argument, but I am equally convinced of the reverse.
Don't get me wrong, I love shooting my semi-autos, but I don't trust them like I do the revolvers.
 
Everyone is different.

I've been shooting revolvers since I was a teenager and carrying them since I was in my 20's.

I shoot semiautos often, but I just shoot revolvers better. It's been true since I was a kid, and I'm 57 now. It's not likely to change.

My daughter is in town for spring break and last night we were walking the dogs in our residential neighborhood. A car accelerated and pulled into the driveway right in front of us, startling us both. It was nothing, just a teenager pulling into his own driveway, showing off for the pretty girl.

I was pleased to find that my revolver butt was in my hand before my conscious mind had even processed anything. It wouldn't have happened that way for me with a semiautomatic pistol in a belt holster. I've been carrying a snub revolver in my back pocket for 35 years now. Drawing it has been in muscle memory for decades. (Note: The barrel did not leave the holster, and everything stayed under a cover garment.)

If you carried a full-sized auto in a belt holster for years, that's undoubtedly the best way for you to carry. Muscle memory is your friend and will serve you well.

Some of us are used to something different.
 
<snip> "…I was pleased to find that my revolver butt was in my hand before my conscious mind had even processed anything. The barrel did not leave the holster, and everything stayed under a cover garment…"
Exactly! Passersby and other motorists didn't notice, the teenager trying to impress your daughter didn't notice, your daughter may not have noticed, and even your dog did not notice and likely only wanted a biscuit.

That is the day-to-day beauty of a pocket-carried .357 Mag revolver. One can be instantly ready WITHOUT ruffling feathers if everything turns out to be fine. It is kind of hard to not notice someone dramatically sweeping his/her coat back and purposefully putting their hand on their hip to unholster a belt-carried semi-automatic.

While I love my semi-automatics they do not have this same effortlessly quiet way to visually descalate.
 
I am wondering why the mods haven’t moved this thread as it seems all the arguments against a snubbie are for semiautomatic pistols. It appears they have time to delete posts, why not move this one to the appropriate forum, or, as they seem to do often, close the thread as it has run its course.

When was the last post by the OP, anyway?
 
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