22 magnum for self defense.

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Don’t get me wrong, my edc is a 9mm Nano, probably one of the most reviled “modern” pistols out there.
Why did I choose that? It was affordable, tiny, easy to conceal and shot a cartridge of reasonable size for sd.
What I am trying to say is that there is not *that* much difference between 9mm and .22wmr.
The .22wmr does not even begin to compare to .357, .40, .45 or 10mm but it is still a better choice for sd than harsh words. If someone cannot or does not wish to become proficient with the larger calibers I don’t think .22wmr is the worst choice.
It would certainly be better than .22lr or .25acp.
 
Honestly, the main issue I have with .22WMR for self-defense is sort of complicated.

It's usually chosen for its low recoil--often for people with hand-strength or other issues that prevent them from dealing with the level of recoil expected from a small 9mm, a .38 compact revolver, or even a small .380.

Because of the issues with rimfires and rimmed cartridges, the recommendations are generally revolvers. And that's where the problem comes in. Because it's a rimfire, the hammer fall needs to be more energetic than a centerfire which means that the DA trigger (and even cocking the hammer) requires more effort. Often it's being recommended in a relatively compact revolver which means less leverage and therefore even more effort required to operate the trigger and hammer.

But we started all of this because a person had some kind of trouble with their hands and by the time we get to the end we've got a solution that requires a good bit of strength in the fingers to run the DA trigger or even to cock the hammer.

As with most concerns relating to firearm/shooter fit, this one is easily dealt with by just making sure that the potential shooter handles the firearm to ensure that they have no issues operating the controls.

As far as effectiveness, it will probably do the job ok. The topic of stopping power is really complicated, but there are two things that really stand out as unassailable fact.

1. Most people are tremendously averse to being shot by any firearm.
2. The vast majority of "stops" are actually psychological which means that the actual caliber or wounding effect either played no part at all or a very small part in making the stop.

Of course there are situations where an attacker isn't rational or is very determined, and in those cases, they will need to be physically broken down. No handgun is a really good tool for that task, but I think it's pretty obvious that moving around a significant "distance" on the handgun power scale (however you define that) is going to potentially have some effects on the outcome. You do the best you can in your choices and in building proficiency and then you just realize that chance, physics, and the bad guy all get their votes too.
 
@JohnKSa very well put. @Atavar i would argue 9mm has a significant advantage over .22 WMR in terms of tissue damage mainly due to bullet design (assuming a good hollow point). That won’t cover all situations, probably all human encounters though. Again, I’ll never knock 9mm as a solid choice for SD against an human assailant.
 
Just something to chew on, Smith 351c loaded is 11 ounces, and a Sig P365 (popular carry 9mm) loaded is 23 ounces. That weight makes a difference to EDC weapons carried by non-police folks. I think the 9mm is more effective than the .22 magnum, BUT I think the .22 magnum is effective enough to stop a threat and let me remove myself and loved ones from the threat. That’s all I’m trying to do. Just my 2 cents.
 
BUT I think the .22 magnum is effective enough to stop a threat and let me remove myself and loved ones from the threat.

That is putting a lot of stock into a diminutive pistol caliber when larger pistol calibers aren't even always able to do the job.

Just something to chew on, Smith 351c loaded is 11 ounces, and a Sig P365 (popular carry 9mm) loaded is 23 ounces. That weight makes a difference to EDC weapons carried by non-police folks

Okay, if weight is the issue, you could go with a larger caliber and more reliable ignition system with the same number or more of rounds onboard for less or comparable weight. A 351c may be 11 oz loaded, but a Ruger LCP in 380 is about 10 oz loaded and has the same number of shots.A Kel-Tec P3AT holds 8 rounds and is 11-12 oz.
 
There are more qualifiers for a SD firearm than weight or capacity. Consider the lack of any real sights on the P3AT compared to a 351C’s prominent front sight. Advantage Smith. Comfortable to shoot and more controllable as well which ought to favor it getting rounds on target.

If a person doesn’t shoot a specific pistol/revolver with some proficiency, efficacy will suffer.

I’m not meaning to be a mule refusing to budge, I’ve given considerable thought to the OP well before it was posted. So often we look for the perfect solution based on one metric or another while other qualifiers go by the wayside. The biggest of those is training, which is the rarest topic spawned in these debates. The best tool for the job is the one you know and use proficiently.
 
Okay, if weight is the issue, you could go with a larger caliber and more reliable ignition system with the same number or more of rounds onboard for less or comparable weight. A 351c may be 11 oz loaded, but a Ruger LCP in 380 is about 10 oz loaded and has the same number of shots.A Kel-Tec P3AT holds 8 rounds and is 11-12 oz.[/QUOTE]

But the LCP is miserable to shoot, follow up shots are a lot more difficult, and reliability can be spotty with tiny .380s. Limp wristing also occurs a lot with little guns. I have an LCP, and LCP MAX, and a Walther PPK/s and the 351c is much easier to shoot fast and accurately.
 
I will mention that .22wmr has pretty much the same muzzle energy as a standard 9mm, about 350 lbs.
does that mean that y’all who are disparaging the .22wmr are going to toss your 9mm’s too?

That is an energy figure from a 22 mag fired in a rifle length barrel. The OPs 4" barreled Sentinel revolver won't get anything close to that much energy.

Exactly, ThomasT. The spinner reaction in the video in post #24 with .22LR, .22WMR, 9mm from pistols is very interesting. Starting about the 3:58 mark.
 
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My basis is my opinion, and my trust in the fact that people don’t like to be shot by anything.

I would not want to get shot by a BB gun (rational / logical thought), that does not make a BB quickly incapacitating.
I'm going to propose that someone taking action that legally merits the use of lethal force is not thinking logically / rationally. (I can post examples but IME it won't matter)
Anybody volunteer to get shot by _____ (minimal caliber) ? Nobody? No volunteers? Well then ____ (minimal caliber) is GTG for SD. :rofl:
I'll stick with at least 12'' penetration and consistent expansion as standards for my SD ammo - like HST in 9mm/357Sig/40 or a 155 XTP 10mm.
 
I'll stick with at least 12'' penetration and consistent expansion as standards for my SD ammo - like HST in 9mm/357Sig/40 or a 155 XTP 10mm.

And I support your decision to carry a gun in a caliber that meets that criteria. However, that gun will be heavier and bigger and harder to conceal than my Smith 351c. It will also have more recoil and therefore it will be more difficult for me to put shots on target. I think we can all agree that just hits count, and multiple hits are optimal.
 
A small gun is better than no gun, if the user trains with it and knows its limitations. Producing a quick draw, and several shots on target is definitely going to initiate the FIBS/FIBSA factor in most SD situations and do the job with a low caliber like. 22, 25, 22 WMR and .32, etc.. Some situations where an imminent deadly threat needs to be stopped very very quickly, then you'll wish you'd had a bigger service caliber with quality hollow point ammunition, one that you've trained with often. These will provide better threat stopping effects and quicker, for the self defender.

I've pocket carried my .25 ACP (Beretta 950) on very rare occasions when the weathers hot and im at a summer event of some type where I just don't want to print or give any hint whatsoever I'm carrying.
I definitely can see certain bad scenarios where I would comply, evade, avoid (with the .25) to a higher degree than if armed with the usual weapon. I wouldn't launch a counter ambush unless I knew I could effectively stop the attacker(s). The .75 second, 1 second, and 2 second rules might not apply while I carry the .25 is what I'm saying, those rules no longer are effective. Very specific training criteria needs to be thought about carefully on when you would use the weapon in order to stop a threat.
In advanced training, there are certain cues and time margins to go on. All of these cues and time margins may change a lot when you have a dinky little gun and you decide to initiate your counter ambush... Or it could cost you bigtime.
I don't like small calibers for CCW, I believe they are more of a liability in some cases than higher service calibers.
 
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A small gun is better than no gun, if the user trains with it and knows its limitations. Producing a quick draw, and several shots on target is definitely going to initiate the FIBS/FIBSA factor in most SD situations and do the job with a low caliber like. 22, 25, 22 WMR and .32, etc.. Some situations where an imminent deadly threat needs to be stopped very very quickly, then you'll wish you'd had a bigger service caliber with quality hollow point ammunition, one that you've trained with often. These will provide better threat stopping effects and quicker, for the self defender.

I've pocket carried my .25 ACP (Beretta 950) on very rare occasions when the weathers hot and im at a summer event of some type where I just don't want to print or give any hint whatsoever I'm carrying.
I definitely can see certain bad scenarios where I would comply, evade, avoid (with the .25) to a higher degree than if armed with the usual weapon. I wouldn't launch a counter ambush unless I knew I could effectively stop the attacker(s). The .75 second, 1 second, and 2 second rules might not apply while I carry the .25 is what I'm saying, those rules no longer are effective. Very specific training criteria needs to be thought about carefully on when you would use the weapon in order to stop a threat.
In advanced training, there are certain cues and time margins to go on. All of these cues and time margins need change a lot when you have a dinky little gun and you decide to initiate your counter ambush... Or it could cost you bigtime.
I don't like small calibers for CCW, I believe they are more of a liability in some cases than higher service calibers.

Just be sure in any scenario where you can get away, there may be legal issues with you inserting yourself into the mix without a direct threat against you. Stay safe.
 
I usually carry a 1911 CCO .45ACP, a Glock 19 or a Sig P365. When I do exercise hard aerobically along running trails or the local nearby cemetery... it's quiet there... I've carried for many years a NAA Mini Mag revolver, single action, .22 Magnum. Guess what? If any A Hole wants to get close and threaten me, I would not hesitate to think how he would feel if a .22 Magnum round hit him dead on! Carry what you want, enjoy, what protects you. I would rather carry a small .22 Magnum... than nothing! Stay safe, and healthy.
 
Been on my mind more and more these past several years. My feeling, it penetrates. Wound channel is of course small but it’s getting through clothing that other small caliber centerfires probably won’t (say .380 ACP and below). Recoil is nil for faster follow up shots that are still on target.

I guess all of that scores high in my book combined with the idea that my wife could also grab it and use it without intimidation. I’d certainly prefer the Keltec PMR30 with many many more rounds on tap but overall I’d say .22 WMR checks more boxes than not with my criteria. I will wholeheartedly agree there are better choices for most SD scenarios but I wouldn’t think I’d be panicked if it were my option.
I think we are lucky to have youtube and endless firearm tests on youtube, compared to say 30 years ago. Why? Because they've put to the test virtually every firearm myth or common belief, some of which pan out and some of which don't. One of them that doesn't? The idea that small calibers are stopped by any normative winter clothing, or leather, etc. They have tests on youtube showing even .22 short isn't stopped by leather jackets. They aren't stopping .380. They aren't stopping .22 LR lol. Maybe they slow it down a bit, or clog the hollow point in many cases, turning it into FMJ.'

Can Heavy Clothing Stop a 22? - YouTube
 
Just bought a S&W Shield 9mm.
Still going to carry the 22mag now and then. But will make my primary the Shield.
Thanks for everyone's opinion.
Honestly the Shield 9 is a great gun. I have one. It's been 100% to the bullet reliable. I've used it for several gun courses. I trust it completely, which I can't say for every gun I've handled or owned. 1000 rounds approximately through it, zero failures or problems. I carried it all day yesterday while moving a whole house, and tonight while watching 10 kids trick or treating and I was wearing a Darth Vader costume ;).
 
I will mention that .22wmr has pretty much the same muzzle energy as a standard 9mm, about 350 lbs.
does that mean that y’all who are disparaging the .22wmr are going to toss your 9mm’s too?
Isn't that out of a rifle though?
 
From a short 2-3” handgun barrel of the type typically in the “personal defense” size category, .22 magnum is going to yield you about 1000 FPS with a whopping muzzle energy of 100 ft-lbs or less.

www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/22mag.html

Comparing a .22 caliber 40 grain bullet with 100 ft-lbs of energy behind it to a .355 caliber (9mm) 124 grain bullet with well over 350 ft-lbs behind it is just silly.
 
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