9mm, .38 spec., .357, .40, and .45 ACP

[stinger 327]

What is the preferred load and brand currently for personal protection outdoors where you might have to shoot through a barracade?

Also which load, and brand for the above calibers for home defense?

i.e Federal HST, Hornady Critical Defense, Corbon Power Ball, Golden Saber, Gold Dot etc.

 

[reuben mishler]

I don't get too hung up on brand. I like Federal the most out of all the ones you named.

I load my pistols similar to how you might load a shotgun. My first 3 rounds will be hydro-shock bullets, and the rest will be FMJ. The thought behind that is, the first few shots will be a hard contact, meaning you are engaging your target directly. After the initial contact, your target will begin looking for cover. That is where the FMJs come into play. Not that FMJ will go through everything, but they should do best after the initial contact.

My preference for carry are hollow points or hydroshocks, then FMJs as described. Just my two cents!

 

[rcmodel]

Just about any of the name brand JHP SD ammo has passed the FBI performance criteria, including hard barrier penetration, in order to generate law enforcement sales.

As such, just pick one.

IMO: Staggering loads in your magazine is not something I would do.
To me, the same recoil and proper cycling every shot is far more important then any perceived benefit a staggered load could possible give you.

A JHP will not expand in a hard target, so it performs just about like a FMJ in that situation.
Plus, it gives far greater wounding performance, with way less risk of over-penetration in soft tissue, if that is what it hits.

rc

 

[USAF_Vet]

Depends on the baricade. My pair of loaded and ready HD guns are 12guage pump with alternating rounds of 00 and #4 buckshot, with 5 slugs on the side saddle. My other HD gun is a hi-point 995 carbine loaded with 115 gr. FMJ.

Most 'baricades' in a home defense situation are 'soft' cover baricades, i.e. couch, chair, interior wall and at ranges of typically less than 25'.

Outside baricades would obviously run the gamut, but shooting through them really only happens in the movies. Blasting a bad guy hiding behind a brick wall or steel dumpster is a bad idea. If the BG is hiding, you have time to run.

Load and Brand are purely personal choice. A lot of companies currently market rounds specifically called self defense loads, try some out, and go with what you feel comfortable with.

You're bound to hear from purists who may tell you to go with nothing other than a .45, but any of the calibers you listed would be sufficient for self/home defense.


More important than the round used is your threat assessment. In my home, I have young children on the other side of those thin interior walls. Overpenetration is a concern. I also have neighbors in close proximity which is also cause for concern. Eliminating a threat at the cost of collateral damage is not something I want to experience.

 

[oldbear]

To me the .357 Magnum platform is the end all be all of handgun rounds, so that's what I count on. As I now live in a townhome my main home defense revolver is loaded with 38 special + P loads. I don't want to have to worry about shooting through a common wall. For normal carry I load Speer 158Gr. .357 Magnum ammo.

Most of the major brands should work well, I usually shoot Federal, Speer, or Fiocchi brands. As an aside I have had good luck using Georgia Arms ammo for range use.

 

[hammerklavier]

oldbear, you must have brick walls, huh?

reuben, I like your style, but I hope you don't carry cheap practice ammo FMJs.

 

[stinger 327]

Depends on the baricade. My pair of loaded and ready HD guns are 12guage pump with alternating rounds of 00 and #4 buckshot, with 5 slugs on the side saddle. My other HD gun is a hi-point 995 carbine loaded with 115 gr. FMJ.

Most 'baricades' in a home defense situation are 'soft' cover baricades, i.e. couch, chair, interior wall and at ranges of typically less than 25'.

Outside baricades would obviously run the gamut, but shooting through them really only happens in the movies. Blasting a bad guy hiding behind a brick wall or steel dumpster is a bad idea. If the BG is hiding, you have time to run.

Load and Brand are purely personal choice. A lot of companies currently market rounds specifically called self defense loads, try some out, and go with what you feel comfortable with.

You're bound to hear from purists who may tell you to go with nothing other than a .45, but any of the calibers you listed would be sufficient for self/home defense.


More important than the round used is your threat assessment. In my home, I have young children on the other side of those thin interior walls. Overpenetration is a concern. I also have neighbors in close proximity which is also cause for concern. Eliminating a threat at the cost of collateral damage is not something I want to experience.

In outdoors I would consider an automobile a barracade so it would have to penetrate doors and glass & windshields.

 

[stinger 327]

I don't get too hung up on brand. I like Federal the most out of all the ones you named.

I load my pistols similar to how you might load a shotgun. My first 3 rounds will be hydro-shock bullets, and the rest will be FMJ. The thought behind that is, the first few shots will be a hard contact, meaning you are engaging your target directly. After the initial contact, your target will begin looking for cover. That is where the FMJs come into play. Not that FMJ will go through everything, but they should do best after the initial contact.

My preference for carry are hollow points or hydroshocks, then FMJs as described. Just my two cents!

I have heard of this staggering of rounds which is a great idea but would feel more comfortable if it was done in a revolver vs. the auto pistol since the auto pistol is dependent on power of ammo to eject casing.

 

[stinger 327]

Just about any of the name brand JHP SD ammo has passed the FBI performance criteria, including hard barrier penetration, in order to generate law enforcement sales.

As such, just pick one.

IMO: Staggering loads in your magazine is not something I would do.
To me, the same recoil and proper cycling every shot is far more important then any perceived benefit a staggered load could possible give you.

A JHP will not expand in a hard target, so it performs just about like a FMJ in that situation.
Plus, it gives far greater wounding performance, with way less risk of over-penetration in soft tissue, if that is what it hits.

rc

So that would be the Winchester PDX-1

 

[RevolvingGarbage]

In all the calibers its available, Winchester PDX1 bonded hollowpoints are my preferred load.

 

[USAF_Vet]

In outdoors I would consider an automobile a barracade so it would have to penetrate doors and glass & windshields.

I don't know your lifestyle, so this may or may not be a potential reality for you. I would suspect that FMJ or JHP rounds would penetrate the thin aluminum anf fiberglass of most modern automobile bodies. Same with the glass with the possible exception of the front windshield. Still, I stand by my earleir post of

If the BG is hiding, you have time to run.

If you don't have a clear shot, odds are neither does the BG.

 

[MikeNice]

Go with the Federal Hydra Shock, HST, or Tactical Bonded brand if they work in your gun. You could just as easily use Remmington Golden Saber, Speer Gold Dot, Hornady Close Quarters, Winchester Ranger T Series, Ranger Bonded, or PDX1. They will all meet the standards for penetrating.

The Ranger T and SXT have issues with the core and jacket seperating after penetrating automotive glass. The Golden Saber has had issues with heavy clothing. Going heavy for caliber should help with weight retention and performance after passing through barriers.

 

[MikeNice]

USAF there could be potential situations that require shooting through barriers. If you are cornered with the BG between you and the exit, if your car is surrounded by traffic, or if you find yourself fighting your way back to your family.

It isn't common, but it can happen.

 

[USAF_Vet]

Mike, very true, but altogether very unlikely.

 

[kk0g]

Here we go again.

 

[MikeNice]

Mike, very true, but altogether very unlikely.

I agree. Untill the other day I thought it would be highly unlikely that three escaped convicts would be passing through my neighborhood. They ended up passing less than 1000 feet from my house while I was asleep.

I would say prepare for even the unlikely unless it causes undue financial, mental, or emotional burden. You have to take a personal inventory to see if it is worth it. To me spending $34.95 for a box of Federal HST 147gr 9mm bullets is not unduly burdensome.

If it is you can pick up Federal LE 158gr+p LSWC-HP for $16.95 a box. It should pass through most softer barriers just fine. Winchester also makes a bonded 130gr+p HP in .38special that runs about $30.00 a box. (All prices are for boxes of 50.)

I don't think those are financially burdensome. Carrying them shouldn't be any more emotionally or physically burdensome. So, preparing for the unlikely event is actually no more out there than carrying a gun to begin with.

 

[Manco]

I suppose that .357 Magnum (or .357 SIG among auto calibers) would be the best penetrator of hard barriers in general, although for the types of barrier that police expect to contend with, for example, the best JHPs in any of these calibers (except perhaps for .38 Special) would do just as well. I favor the current FBI load, which is 180 grain .40 S&W PDX1, but the 9mm and .45 ACP PDX1 loads should also be effective, and Federal HST and Speer Gold Dot are great performers as well in any of these calibers.

 

[Larry E]

Unless you're planning on shooting through windshields or car bodies most bullets will penetrate a hollow core door or sheetrock wall without much problem. A heavy solid core door might stop an expanding bullet or slow it down enough to reduce its effectiveness.

Surprisingly reasonably hard cast lead bullets will penetrate like nobody's business, but may well over-penetrate in a self defense situation.

Rather than worry about penetrating barriers I worry about bullet expansion and adequate expansion. Putting holes through your neighbors and/or their walls is generally something to be avoided.

That being said I'd prefer a .357 Mag or a .45 ACP with hard cast or FMJ bullets for penetration if I couldn't have a .45 Colt.

 

[Manco]

That being said I'd prefer a .357 Mag or a .45 ACP with hard cast or FMJ bullets for penetration if I couldn't have a .45 Colt.

I bet that 9mm and .40 S&W would both outperform .45 ACP in penetrating most barriers.

 

[doc2rn]

where you might have to shoot through a barracade?

.357 Magnum 158 gr solids for this duty or .45 acp hardball at the minimum

For HD I use Hornandy Critical Defense rounds

 

[stinger 327]

.357 Magnum 158 gr solids for this duty or .45 acp hardball at the minimum

For HD I use Hornandy Critical Defense rounds

aRE YOU SAYING GO WITH THE HEAVIER BULLET AS IF THE .45 ACP IS OFFERED IN 165 POWERBALL OVER 1,200 FPS, 185, 200 AND 230 WHICH ARE HEAVIER AND LOWER VELICITY ROUNDS.. gO WITH THE 230?
cRITICAL DEFENSE LOADS ARE MORE FOR FLESH DAMAGE VS. SHOOTING THROUGH BARRACADES?
cORBON pOWERBALL MADE FOR MORE PENETRATION SINCE IT IS A VERY HOT LOAD AND LIGHTER?

wHAT IS A HARDCAST BULLET SOMETHING LIKE BUFFALO BORE AMMO THAT IS A LEAD TIP?

 

[mdauben]

Rather than worry about penetrating barriers I worry about bullet expansion and adequate expansion. Putting holes through your neighbors and/or their walls is generally something to be avoided.

I have to agree. Living as I do in "attached" housing, overpenetration is something I worry about, so I have a revolver loaded with .357 Glazer Safety Slugs and a speed loader of Federal 125gr JHPs if things take longer.

 

[stinger 327]

I suppose that .357 Magnum (or .357 SIG among auto calibers) would be the best penetrator of hard barriers in general, although for the types of barrier that police expect to contend with, for example, the best JHPs in any of these calibers (except perhaps for .38 Special) would do just as well. I favor the current FBI load, which is 180 grain .40 S&W PDX1, but the 9mm and .45 ACP PDX1 loads should also be effective, and Federal HST and Speer Gold Dot are great performers as well in any of these calibers.

THIS WOULD BE MORE OUTDOORS IN OPEN SPACE LIKE RURAL AREAS, FREEWAYS.

tHE 147 GRAIN 9MM WAS THE WORST PERFORMING CARTRIDGE IN THAT WEIGHT AT ONE TIME. THE 115, AND 124, 127 WERE THE PREFERRED ROUNDS SO THIS HAS CHANGED NOW?

wHAT IS WRONG WITH THE WINCHESTER PDX-1 .38 SPECIAL AMMO IN A SNUBNOSE REVOLVER?
FOR EXAMPLE THERE IS A GOLD DOT VERSION OF .38 SPECIAL MADE FOR SHORT BARRELS LIKE THE LCR RUGER .38 SPC. tHEN THE GOLD DOT FOR SHORTER BARRELS IS THE BETTER CHOICE?
gOLD DOT ALSO MAKES SHORT VERSION AMMO FOR OTHER CALIBERS. THIS MAKES ME WONDER HOW WOULD THOSE SHORT VERSION CARTRIDGES PERFORM IN A LARGER GUN LIKE g-17, g-21, g-23? oR ARE YOU BETTER OFF WITH THE STANDARD LOADS NON SHORT BARREL VERSIONS?

 

[stinger 327]

depends on the baricade. My pair of loaded and ready hd guns are 12guage pump with alternating rounds of 00 and #4 buckshot, with 5 slugs on the side saddle. My other hd gun is a hi-point 995 carbine loaded with 115 gr. Fmj.

Most 'baricades' in a home defense situation are 'soft' cover baricades, i.e. Couch, chair, interior wall and at ranges of typically less than 25'.

Outside baricades would obviously run the gamut, but shooting through them really only happens in the movies. Blasting a bad guy hiding behind a brick wall or steel dumpster is a bad idea. If the bg is hiding, you have time to run.

Load and brand are purely personal choice. A lot of companies currently market rounds specifically called self defense loads, try some out, and go with what you feel comfortable with.

You're bound to hear from purists who may tell you to go with nothing other than a .45, but any of the calibers you listed would be sufficient for self/home defense.


More important than the round used is your threat assessment. In my home, i have young children on the other side of those thin interior walls. Overpenetration is a concern. I also have neighbors in close proximity which is also cause for concern. Eliminating a threat at the cost of collateral damage is not something i want to experience.

so in this case hornady would be the better choice because it does more damage to flesh than structures?

 

[stinger 327]

in all the calibers its available, winchester pdx1 bonded hollowpoints are my preferred load.

i have only seen this pdx-1 load in .9mm, .38 spc., .40 cal in 165 and 180 grains, .45 acp.