9mm defensive loads

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Holgersen

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I just bought a new Kahr PM9 with crimson trace laser sights. I'm looking to experment with some new 9mm ammunition and I was wondering what loads and brands you guys carried in 9mm.

I've been told to stay away from 147 grain. I'm not sure of the validity.

Just wondering what you guys would recommend for a little pistol like mine.
 
Any quality defensive hollowpoint should give you good results.

Personally, I carry 115grn standard pressure Speer Gold Dots in my full size M&P. I am confident in it's performance (or at least as confident as I can be for a handgun round) and reliability. It's also at a decent price, so you can afford to at least function test the round a bit.
 
i like a bit heavier bullet in 9mm because i find that my pistols seem to shoot more accurately with them. depending on the pistol, i'm loading them with Ranger 127gr +P+ Talon or the Speer 124 +P Gold Dot
 
If science and fact is what you are interested in, the data is available on line at www.M4Carbine.net in the Terminal Ballistic forum by Dr Gary Roberts. The leading researcher on terminal ballistics in America today:

As you increase bullet size and mass from 9 mm/357 Sig, to .40 S&W, to .45 ACP, more tissue is crushed, resulting in a larger permanent cavity. In addition, the larger bullets often offer better performance through intermediate barriers. For some, the incremental advantages of the larger calibers are offset by weapon platform characteristics. As is quite obvious from the photo above, NONE of the common service pistol calibers generate temporary cavities of sufficient magnitude to cause significant tissue damage. Anyone interested in this topic should read and periodically re-read, “Handgun Wounding Factors and Effectiveness” by Urey Patrick of the FBI FTU, as this remains the single best discussion of the wound ballistic requirements of handguns used for self-defense -- it is available at:

http://www.firearmstactical.com/hwfe.htm .

Keeping in mind that handguns generally offer poor incapacitation potential, bullets with effective terminal performance are available in all of the most commonly used duty pistol calibers—pick the one that you shoot most accurately, that is most reliable in the type of pistol you choose, and best suits you likely engagement scenarios.

The following loads all demonstrate outstanding terminal performance and can be considered acceptable for duty/self-defense use:

9 mm:
Barnes XPB 105 & 115 gr JHP (copper bullet)
Federal Tactical 124 gr JHP (LE9T1)
Speer Gold Dot 124 gr +P JHP
Winchester Ranger-T 124 gr +P JHP (RA9124TP)
Winchester Partition Gold 124 gr JHP (RA91P)
Winchester Ranger-T 127 gr +P+ JHP (RA9TA)
Federal Tactical 135 gr +P JHP (LE9T5)
Federal HST 147 gr JHP (P9HST2)
Remington Golden Saber 147 gr JHP (GS9MMC)
Speer Gold Dot 147 gr JHP
Winchester Ranger-T 147 gr JHP (RA9T)
Winchester 147 gr bonded JHP (RA9B/Q4364)

.40 S&W:
Barnes XPB 140 & 155 gr JHP (copper bullet)
Speer Gold Dot 155 gr JHP
Federal Tactical 165 gr JHP (LE40T3)
Winchester Ranger-T 165 gr JHP (RA40TA)
Winchester Partition Gold 165 gr JHP (RA401P)
Federal HST 180 gr JHP (P40HST1)
Federal Tactical 180 gr JHP (LE40T1)
Remington Golden Saber 180 gr JHP (GS40SWB)
Speer Gold Dot 180 gr JHP
Winchester Ranger-T 180 gr JHP (RA40T)
Winchester 180 gr bonded JHP (Q4355 or S40SWPDB1)

.45 ACP:
Barnes XPB 160 & 185 gr JHP (copper bullet)
Federal HST 230 gr JHP (P45HST2)
Federal HST 230 gr +P JHP (P45HST1)
Federal Tactical 230 gr JHP (LE45T1)
Speer Gold Dot 230 gr JHP
Speer Gold Dot 230 gr +P JHP
Winchester Ranger-T 230 gr JHP (RA45T)
Winchester Ranger-T 230 gr +P JHP (RA45TP)

Notes:
-- Obviously, clone loads using the same bullet at the same velocity work equally well (ie. Black Hills ammo using Gold Dot bullets, Corbon loads using Barnes XPB bullets, etc…)

-- Bullet designs like the Silver Tip, Hydra-Shok, and Black Talon were state of the art 15 or 20 years ago. These older bullets tend to plug up and act like FMJ projectiles when shot through heavy clothing; they also often have significant degradation in terminal performance after first passing through intermediate barriers. Modern ammunition which has been designed for robust expansion against clothing and intermediate barriers is significantly superior to the older designs. The bullets in the Federal Classic and Hydrashok line are outperformed by other ATK products such as the Federal Tactical and HST, as well as the Speer Gold Dot; likewise Winchester Ranger Talons are far superior to the old Black Talons or civilian SXT's.

----------------------------------------

Basically all the standard service calibers work when using good quality ammunition.

------------------------------------------

The keys are:

-- Cultivate a warrior mindset
-- Invest in competent, thorough initial training and then maintain skills with regular ongoing practice
-- Acquire a reliable and durable weapon system
-- Purchase a consistent, robust performing duty/self-defense load in sufficient quantities (at least 1000 rounds) then STOP worrying about the nuances of handgun ammunition terminal performance.

Only for those interested in FACTS not fiction.

Go figure.

Fred
 
My Kahr PM-9 has functioned reliably with 124 to 147 gr. jacketed bullets from Federal, Speer and Winchester.
 
Just about any modern JHP from a reliable manufacturer will suffice. I recommend running at least 200 trouble-free rounds through the gun before carrying, although this is a lot harder in today's economy than it used to be given ammo prices.

For me, I prefer Gold Dots, 124 gr +P. In the past, have also used Remington Golden Saber, WWB JHP, and Federal Hydra-Shok rounds in various platforms and calibers with no functioning/reliablility/accuracy problems.
 
I just finished reading Stopping Power-A practical analysis of the latest handgun ammunition by Evan P. Marshall and Edwin J. Sanow. It completely changed my perspective on handgun ammunition. I would highly recommend that you read it. FWIW, I have always used gold dots in my guns and they have gone bang every time.
 
I have frequently used Remington Golden Saber 147gr with a Kahr MK9 with no feeding or ejection issues. Of course I thankfully haven't had to shoot anyone with it, but I hope the additional mass makes up for the lack of velocity due to barrel length. I could probably use some +P round with the MK9, but why batter the miniature gun that much harder?
 
Stopping Power-A practical analysis of the latest handgun ammunition by Evan P. Marshall and Edwin J. Sanow

I hate the title, it's an oxymoron no stopping power allowed in handgun discussion unless you go to the .44 magnum or .50bmg
 
Is it the DPX ammo or is it the regular JHP. I've been looking at both.
I carry the 115 gr. Corbon DPX in my PM9. It's very accurate and shoots to point of aim with relatively mild recoil. The functioning is extremely reliable even with the big hollow point. DPX is very expensive but 115 gr. Independence or American Eagle FMJ shoots the same so that's my range ammo.

Interestingly, the only FTEs i've experienced with this gun were with FMJ during the 200 round break in.
 
I just finished reading Stopping Power-A practical analysis of the latest handgun ammunition by Evan P. Marshall and Edwin J. Sanow. It completely changed my perspective on handgun ammunition. I would highly recommend that you read it. FWIW, I have always used gold dots in my guns and they have gone bang every time.

I hope you are able to forget it as quickly as you have read it. This publication has egregious errors in applied statistics, skewing of data, and intentional cherry picking of data and tested variables. It has been debunked NUMEROUS times by REAL scientists, but still perpetuates dangerous myths to this day.

I do not intend to derail the thread.
I will not engage in a M&S debate on this thread. If anyone out there is such a huge fan of M&S's esteemed work that you feel the need to argue the fine points of it with me, then do it via PM to avoid crapping on the OP's thread.

Anytime M&S and "one shot stop percentages" appear in a thread I am compelled to cry foul. This work is an academically dishonest, myth laden, batch of pseudo-science, shrouded in just enough scientific jargon to confuse the layperson.
 
Gold dots and Win Ranger are proven loads.
The copper bullets developed by Barnes and sold as loaded cartridges by Taurus (hex bullet) and Corbon (dpx) have shown a lot of potential in gel testing although they are expensive. One thing to keep in mind about the copper bullets is the fact that they are significantly less dense than lead. This in turn may alter the cartridge overall length relative to a jhp bullet of similar weight.
 
As soon as I establish that 147g Gold Dot Doubletap loads feed reliably in my PF9 they will be my carry load, until then I'm using CHEAP 115 FMJ target loads :eek:
 
I carry the 147gr. Winchester White Box JHPs in both my Glock 19 and Browning Hi Power. It's accurate and reliable in both guns. It has a good reputation for both expansion and penetration.
 
I've read from several sources that NYPD uses Speer Gold Dot 124gr +P loads and that they've been very effective. I would imagine that they've had extensive experience.
 
Buy a bunch of candidates and take them to the range with time on your hands and a notepad and make up your mind what the unique combination of you + your gun "shoots best" for you. To me that's the important part: my confidence that the gun likes it and I can hit decent with it.

For me it turned out to be Golden Saber 124gr hollow points, non- +P version, which surprised me... I wouldn't have picked that by just asking folks or just thinking about it.

Les
 
I've thought that Double Tap 147s wouldn't work in my RAMI.

I know the hot Powrball loads give it fits, so I try to stay away from
the hyper-velocity ammo.

Was pleasantly surprised to run about 30 round of this stuff through my RAMI on Saturday.
dt-9mm-10.png
Not a bobble or wobble. recoil was a tad bit higher than the comparable
Speer 124 gr.+P that works so well in most CZs.

Very authoritative muzzle blast.. but not much flash.

RAMI-Snake.png

I'll probably carry this 1,135 fps Gold Dot when my new
polymer framed RAMI P arrives.

Know that the smoking hot Barnes TAC load resides in my heavier Pre-B.
 
the damage done to stacked wet cardboard by my hot handload Rem 124gr GS is impressive.

Which is good if you happen to be fighting stacked wet cardboard.

The fact is any quality JHP from 115-147 grs will do the job well. Find what feeds in your gun well and is most accurate. There is no magic bullet. I stay away from +P in 9mm. If you want a +P 9mm you should have bought a 357 SIG.
 
I've been told to stay away from 147 grain. I'm not sure of the validity.

That's a bunch of poop. Heavier loads tend to retain a higher % of their velocity through a short barrel. And Kahrs have polygonal rifling, so they tend to do pretty well in the velocity department.

I personally like 147 gr Golden Sabers. That's what I'd carry if I owned a 9mm. I use 180 gr Golden Sabers in my .40s (including an MK40).
 
TNOutdoors9 on You Tube has done several tests on 9-mm including Corbon DPX.

He doesn't have ballistic gellatin yet. However his methods come pretty close.
Uses gallong jugs filled with wet newspaper.

Look him up on YouTube. Interesting channel.

Best Regards....
Julian
Lagrange, GA
 
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