9mm +P+ Federal (9bple)

The 9BPLEs shoot darn hot. Hottest 9mm I've ever shot.
They feel like im shooting a 40 s&w
 
I have carried plain vanilla 9BP ever since M. Ayoob said to. It is accurate and reliable in my guns. I don't want to go to the expense and hassle of getting comfortable with something new.

It is my OPINION that 9BPLE is listed as +P+ because it is slightly over +P.
Not 42000 but maybe 39000 over 38500 +P maximum.

Norma got into that with their superpowder .38 Special Magnum, silly name. They said it was +P velocity at P pressure. But when checked upon importation it turned out to be into +P and they had to change the label.
 
Interesting, though I'd be hesitant to carry +P+ in anything smaller than a "compact" service pistol. Still, for my CZ PCR, CZ P01, steel framed CZ 75 Compact, or Glock 19, and for my full sized CZ 75B I might consider it. At $0.36/round you don't get cheaper with JHP, and being able to practice with the same round that was a capable self defense round would be nice. Still, for my P365, and even likely my alloy PCR and P01 I'd feel more comfortable with the standard Hi-Shok which is only a little more ($19.95 for a box of 50). In either variation, it may not be the latest and greatest, but it is a good round and a great price.
 
This load gained an excellent reputation for stopping power in days gone by.

But, there are FAR better choices now such as the Federal HST and SIG tactical hollow points.
 
GRIZ22 said:
Please enlighten me on where in LEOSA is +P+ ammo forbidden. Not trying to sharpshoot you just want to find out if I missed something.
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No worries I have questioned this myself. However, I have attended this qualification and attached class annually for the last decade. In the hand out “handbooks” and at least one power point presentation I have been instructed as such. I am not a lawyer and have not found it in the text. One such power point mentioned it as “P+P” erroneously but there. HR218 is filled with many interpretations I have found! So I mention it as a matter of FYI as I am told and something I would rather not find out about the hard way. I will try to find one of the handouts from the institution that I take the class/qualification with.
 
wcwhitey said:
No worries I have questioned this myself. However, I have attended this qualification and attached class annually for the last decade. In the hand out “handbooks” and at least one power point presentation I have been instructed as such. I am not a lawyer and have not found it in the text. One such power point mentioned it as “P+P” erroneously but there. HR218 is filled with many interpretations I have found! So I mention it as a matter of FYI as I am told and something I would rather not find out about the hard way. I will try to find one of the handouts from the institution that I take the class/qualification with.
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The only mention of ammunition in LEOSA is prohibiting ammunition controlled by the NFA. +P+ is not controlled by the NFA.
 
GRIZ22 said:
The only mention of ammunition in LEOSA is prohibiting ammunition controlled by the NFA. +P+ is not controlled by the NFA.
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Not to derail this thread but there is some Hollow Point controversy for New Jersey also. Although LEOSA says it’s okay, the NJ Attorney General specifically says no. Again, doesn’t matter, we all make our own decisions when things are vague. I don’t know why the company I use makes +P+ an issue but they do. They are spot on otherwise. It falls under “you were told this at training”.
 
wcwhitey said:
Not to derail this thread but there is some Hollow Point controversy for New Jersey also. Although LEOSA says it’s okay, the NJ Attorney General specifically says no.
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This was cleared up last year when several LE organizations took NJ to court over LEOSA. If you're carrying under LEOSA in NJ you can carry hollowpoints. If you're a retired LEO living in NJ you don't need to get a state permit.

A state cannot ignore a Federal law.
 
It is my OPINION that 9BPLE is listed as +P+ because it is slightly over +P.
Not 42000 but maybe 39000 over 38500 +P maximum.
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I contacted Federal about this loading many years ago and finally found someone who was willing to talk. The specified pressure for 9BPLE is exactly at the limit of SAAMI 9mm +P.

My guess is that they label it as +P+ because it will be slightly over +P pressure when fired in hotter temperatures or in some guns with tighter bores, etc.
 
JohnKSa said:
I contacted Federal about this loading many years ago and finally found someone who was willing to talk. The specified pressure for 9BPLE is exactly at the limit of SAAMI 9mm +P.

My guess is that they label it as +P+ because it will be slightly over +P pressure when fired in hotter temperatures or in some guns with tighter bores, etc.
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That is exactly how Buffalo Bore loads their 9mm 147gr +p+ ammo. Somewhere on their site it says it is loaded to within SAAMI specs.

BB and Underwood both chrono right near advertised with their +p+, which is faster than BPLE was chronoed in online tests I've seen. Actually I've chronoed Underwood 115gr 9m +p at 1300+fps. So there is easy to get ammo that is hotter than 9BPLE if anyone is having trouble finding it.
 
wcwhitey said:
Not to derail this thread but there is some Hollow Point controversy for New Jersey also. Although LEOSA says it’s okay, the NJ Attorney General specifically says no. Again, doesn’t matter, we all make our own decisions when things are vague. I don’t know why the company I use makes +P+ an issue but they do. They are spot on otherwise. It falls under “you were told this at training”.
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I posted a link the other day in the LEOSA thread in Legal to an official NJ site that said retired NJ officers could not carry HP, but out of state officers could carry any Federally legal ammo. Go figure that one out.

Been retired since ‘09, no mention of a +P+ prohibition in any re-qual session. HR218 began in ‘04, no mention by our academy officers then or later either.
 
Whatever you choose and if you lean toward the
+P+ offerings, just be sure your pistol, full sized
or slightly less, has the correct springs to save
the gun from being buffeted into an early junk heap.
 
This was the issue load for a department for whom I worked for a number of years, until HST and Gold Dots became trendy and the old farts that ran our firearms training unit finally heard about it...It was a distinctly noticeable difference shooting duty ammo out of pistols after we switched from a steel-framed DA/SA to a polymer-framed striker pistol, for sure.

It was the most reliable load to cycle our MP5s, too.

I once witnessed what the round did in a human body, and it was impressive.

wcwhitey said:
Not to derail this thread but there is some Hollow Point controversy for New Jersey also. Although LEOSA says it’s okay, the NJ Attorney General specifically says no. Again, doesn’t matter, we all make our own decisions when things are vague. I don’t know why the company I use makes +P+ an issue but they do. They are spot on otherwise. It falls under “you were told this at training”.
Click to expand...
Speedo66 said:
I posted a link the other day in the LEOSA thread in Legal to an official NJ site that said retired NJ officers could not carry HP, but out of state officers could carry any Federally legal ammo. Go figure that one out.
Click to expand...

Just to be on the safe side... NJ doesn't consider Hornady Critical Duty (a favorite of mine, especially the FBI load 135 grain +P) as HP, as the hole is stuffed, right?

(not that I have any plans to ever visit NJ, but having had fly into NJ, didn't take a firearm, to visit family in NYC)
 
Speedo66 said:
I posted a link the other day in the LEOSA thread in Legal to an official NJ site that said retired NJ officers could not carry HP, but out of state officers could carry any Federally legal ammo. Go figure that one out.

Been retired since ‘09, no mention of a +P+ prohibition in any re-qual session. HR218 began in ‘04, no mention by our academy officers then or later either.
Click to expand...

Wrong about NJ. Check LEOSA thread.
 
Speedo66 said:
Could you be more specific Re: what I’m wrong about?
Click to expand...

NJ has not updated the NJSP website since 2021. NJ lost a lawsuit in 2022 regarding hollowpoints and requiring retired LEOS carrying under LEOSA.

NJ cannot Trump Federal law.
 
Old Dog said:
This was the issue load for a department for whom I worked for a number of years, until HST and Gold Dots became trendy and the old farts that ran our firearms training unit finally heard about it...It was a distinctly noticeable difference shooting duty ammo out of pistols after we switched from a steel-framed DA/SA to a polymer-framed striker pistol, for sure.

It was the most reliable load to cycle our MP5s, too.

I once witnessed what the round did in a human body, and it was impressive.




Just to be on the safe side... NJ doesn't consider Hornady Critical Duty (a favorite of mine, especially the FBI load 135 grain +P) as HP, as the hole is stuffed, right?

(not that I have any plans to ever visit NJ, but having had fly into NJ, didn't take a firearm, to visit family in NYC)
Click to expand...

https://www.policemag.com/639402/judge-rules-in-favor-of-leosa-suit-against-state-of-new-jersey

If you're coming to NJ, carrying under LEOSA, bring your gun, carry hollowpoints.
 
Well, If you are paying extra per round and dealing with increased recoil for a 9mm+P+, Why not do 357sig or 10mm?

Edit: Updated to correct the 9mm loading
 
C0untZer0 said:
There are many many NATO specifications for 9 x 19
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There's actually precisely one NATO standard that defines 9mm NATO ammunition; STANAG AOP 4090. It is a longer document but in a nutshell:

test barrel: 7.8", 1:10 twist
bullet weight: 108 to 128 grains (inclusive)
coal: 1.138" to 1.169"
kinetic energy at the muzzle: 400 to 600 ft.lbs
pressure: corrected peak chamber pressure shall not exceed 37,000 psi and no pressure shall exceed 42,700 psi

Muzzle velocities between different batches of ammunition can vary, as long as requirements for kinetic energy, pressure etc. are met.
 
Old Dog said:
This was the issue load for a department for whom I worked for a number of years, until HST and Gold Dots became trendy and the old farts that ran our firearms training unit finally heard about it...It was a distinctly noticeable difference shooting duty ammo out of pistols after we switched from a steel-framed DA/SA to a polymer-framed striker pistol, for sure.

It was the most reliable load to cycle our MP5s, too.

I once witnessed what the round did in a human body, and it was impressive.




Just to be on the safe side... NJ doesn't consider Hornady Critical Duty (a favorite of mine, especially the FBI load 135 grain +P) as HP, as the hole is stuffed, right?

(not that I have any plans to ever visit NJ, but having had fly into NJ, didn't take a firearm, to visit family in NYC)
Click to expand...
As a neighbor to NJ and it being a state I travel through and conduct business in I have a box of Hornady Critical Defense for every carry caliber. It’s all madness, the games we have to play Even after spending a lifetime on the right side of the law!
 
Let's stay on point discussing the ammo and not drift this thread into the legal/political arena

If you want to discuss the legality of the ammo, there is Legal for that.

If you want to discuss the politics of the legality, there are other forums for that
 
TheHermit said:
There's actually precisely one NATO standard that defines 9mm NATO ammunition; STANAG AOP 4090. It is a longer document but in a nutshell:

test barrel: 7.8", 1:10 twist
bullet weight: 108 to 128 grains (inclusive)
coal: 1.138" to 1.169"
kinetic energy at the muzzle: 400 to 600 ft.lbs
pressure: corrected peak chamber pressure shall not exceed 37,000 psi and no pressure shall exceed 42,700 psi

Muzzle velocities between different batches of ammunition can vary, as long as requirements for kinetic energy, pressure etc. are met.
Click to expand...

Wow, an awful broad range.
 
I have a full box

I carry HST or Gold Dot, but would carry bple +p+ if that’s what I had
 
wcwhitey said:
One of my biggest complaints about expensive 20/25 round boxes is how does one practice enough with a round at $1.50 a shot. Revolver ammo is one thing fire a few to verify point of aim. But in a pistol the old standard of 200 rounds to verify reliability means a $300 expense. I still have multiple boxes of 124 Gold Dot+P LE and carry it in my mid to duty sized guns having the benefit of already knowing it works. For my compact 9’s they get the Remington UMC SV 115 SJHP. A round that does work in testing and can be bought in 50 round boxes for around .50 cents a shot. With prices right now “buy it cheap and stack it deep” has even more meaning then it did.
Click to expand...

I've been around some LEO that don't reload. Given that, it's pretty easy to duplicate a factory load with a handload that will have the same POI and a feel that would be pretty close for practice work. I like 124-grain HST, but I sure can't afford to practice with them even buying in bulk. I've come up with several handloads that work great for a practice round and are at least 1/2 the price.

I took a quick look for suggested loads to duplicate the 9bple and found several that would probably be a good place to start.

I've run +P+ in my sub-compacts and the recovery was just too slow. Now, my Hi-Powers running a buffer like it just fine.
 
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