A situation to consider...looking for input

[docnyt]

While we're discussing this, what do y'all think of the silent alarm. I have a regular monitored one that is loud and very attention-getting. I realize that there may be a tactical advantage to having the police arrive with the perpetrators still in the area but will that not escalate the situation to a possibly violent one, including hostage taking?

 

[marineimaging]

I would assume that the resident finally heard the word "Police Officers" and that was why he opened the door unarmed.

 

[9mmepiphany]

I would assume that the resident finally heard the word "Police Officers" and that was why he opened the door unarmed.

The homeowner did not remember understanding the voices through the door.

Part of the reason I posted this was to raise folk's awareness:
1. that they need to have layered security
2. that they should never assume that only bad guys will breech their house
3. that there are legal reasons that LEOs might enter your home
4. that awareness of danger should always be on your mind when awoken
5. that there is a time when inaction, beats action...and how to recognize it

 

[ATBackPackin]

While we're discussing this, what do y'all think of the silent alarm.

I think for a home that silent only alarms are a horrible idea. I can understand having panic buttons where if it was a hostage situation that would put out a silent alarm. One of the big advantages of having an alarm is to have the criminals leave BEFORE entering the house. Once they are in the house they have a decision to make. I personally do not want some smash and grab idiot having to make a decision once inside of my home that may hurt my family.

Shawn

 

[docnyt]

Shawn, I agree with you on that one. I will try to talk to my brother about his home alarm which he has set on silent.

 

[ATBackPackin]

Doc, they can install panic buttons that would put out a silent alarm or have a code for the keypad that puts out a silent alarm as well. When I worked for Brinks Security Systems as an installer they have "codes" for the keypad that if someone forced you into the home and told you to deactivate the alarm. You put in the "code" and it turns off the alarm, but sends out a silent alarm. If I remember correctly when those "codes" are entered, they do not try to call and confirm in case of a hostage situation, but just send the police. Tell him to call his alarm company and ask about his options. I know some people like the silent alarms so they can catch the criminals, but honestly I'll leave that to the police. Have an alarm to keep people out, not to catch them.

Shawn

I almost forgot that most companies now have fobs too. I'm pretty sure from the fob you can do audible or silent alarm, so he may want to check into those.

 

[Grey_Mana]

That question is easy. If it were the cops, my dog would be dead. Since the person in the original scenario could still hear his dog barking, it must be gang-bangers. I acknowledge that not all police forces have the same reputation, but until I can afford to move...
---
Edit -after reading the explanation, I'll double down on gang-bangers. Our police force no longer responds to residences based on calls from 3rd parties (such as alarm monitoring companies), only to businesses outside of normal business hours.

 

[Chongosuerte]

I have to say-almost every response was a great one. Most everybody here lived

The one thing that could have been done different and may have made a substantial difference if the resident took notice was if a police car was parked in front of the house with its blue lights turned on once entry was made.

(Un)fortunately these police were part ninjas and parked half a block or more away and nobody thought of that idea until it was all done with.

Good responses though. If I were in the exact position and had opened the door I would have either given up or slammed it shut, grabbed the phone, the wife, and the little one, holed them up in the bathroom with a gun aimed at the door, and have my wife call 911, then take cover behind the bed with my .45-70 aimed at the main door.

If it's the police they know that they will be on the front page of the paper if they kill an innocent homeowner...they are going to negotiate unless you're shooting at them...

And, yes, my bedroom defense long gun is a .45-70 gov't. I expect that if bad guys come into my house they will be really bad guys. And at 15 feet I'm OK with 5 shots from a carbine. If there's more when I run out I'll use a pistol.

 

[bcp280z]

I'll play along.

Slam the door, lock it, barricade it, (most people have chest o drawers or shelves in room.) Comfort wife, grab gun, (if it were me, I have my M&P40 nightsights in my drawer next to my bed.) Check window, get wife to call 911/try to get her out window or locked in bathroom. hopefully have time to get my jeans/boots on, (after changing boxers of course ). post up and wait. or flee with wife.

I don't think they (police) have the right too do that in FL, and if I were a perfect law abiding citizen they would have no need.

 

[9mmepiphany]

I don't think they (police) have the right too do that in FL, and if I were a perfect law abiding citizen they would have no need.

Does that mean you didn't read post #31

 

[1894]

5. that there is a time when inaction, beats action...and how to recognize it

Please elaborate on how to recognize it for those of us uninitiated.

 

[9mmepiphany]

When you are overwhelmed by numbers and firepower, don't give in to the gamer theory of Take as many of them with me as I can

To be able to fight back and protect your family, first you need to be alive. When you've been caught flatfooted is not the time to ad-lib

 

[Odd Job]

Sounds like a silent alarm and a cell phone are not good choices for this heavy sleeper.
Silent alarm at a residence is pretty much a bad idea in my opinion.

 

[shootr]

Thx to all for the great responses.

Op - thx for posting. Very thought-provoking and illuminating to consider the situation from different perspectives. Frightening to think about potential outcomes.

 

[Uteridge]

This is also a good reminder to lock the door. It is harder for someone who isn't supposed to be in your house to get in with the doors locked. If you live in a decent neighborhood you should have little worry of a no knock warrant on the wrong house. As long as your doors are locked and checked when you go to bed there should be no false alarms.

I found myself in a situation in college where the police were at my door at 2 AM looking for a murderer. I answered the door with a gun but kept it held in a way that they never knew I was armed. If they had asked to see my hands I would have slowly put the gun down. Obviously a different situation than getting caught in the hallway during a no knock warrant but I doubt very much with my insistence on double checking doors at night and living in a good neighborhood surrounded by other military and cops that I would ever be in that situation. Still, I would always comply with someone IDing themselves as the police until I could be absolutely sure they were not.

 

[BBQLS1]

How did you not hear your alarm go off?

Yeah, my alarm would be going crazy. If I slept through it, I'm in bad shape.

 

[BBQLS1]

I'm sorry I didn't address this...one of those things I took for granted that folks knew about. It was a silent alarm...usually associated with banks.

Alarms fall into two categories, Audible and Silent. They are usually sold as Audible to scare burglars away (sure it does) and Silent to have them there when LE gets there.

Silent Alarms are monitored by the company who then alerts local LE to respond. They usually call the resident first to insure it is a real activation and ask for a code word/phrase before dispatching LE

Ah, I see. I don't think I'd want one of those. I have my alarm more to wake me if someone is breaking in that to call the police.

 

[Ohio Gun Guy]

I really hope you fixed some of those MAJOR deficiencies.

1. Outdoor lights
2. Doors that latch
3. Make sure you LOCK the doors
4. Landscaping
5. Alarm / function, annunciator

I know its easy to say in hind sight, but there was practically a red carpet out for a real home invasion. The solution was prevention here!

 

[kingcheese]

i almost find this chilling, to be honest i probably would have locked my door and grabbed a gun and wait for them to try to enter. it wouldnt have ended up good for either of us, and it will definately b something i think about from now on

good topic

 

[Wheeler44]

I'd wait to see how many times they shot my 80 Lb. German Shepherd...But I'd miss her when she was gone.

W44

 

[owlhoot]

The responding officers were aware that the homeowner might be armed.

They enter the house.

The dog is barking at the officers, not at a bad guy hiding behind a door. This should clue the officers that a perp is probably not in the house.

The officers should realize that they are in greater danger from a possibly armed homeowner than from a possible perp.

Shining a bright flashlight in someones's face is a hostile and aggressive act. I wouldn't have blamed a homeowner if he had given them a double load of buck.

Why in hell didn't the police flip a light switch upon entering so the homeowner could ID them. That's why police wear uniforms after all. In this situation identification is as crucial for the homeowner as it is for the police. And it is crucial for the police that the homeowner be able to identify them too.

This was badly handled by the officers. They could easily have gotten some of their own killed or just as sadly ended up killing the homeowner and his wife.

If I were the chief, and I was one, I would have seriously chewed some butt.

 

[.45acp7.62x54r]

The guy that this happened to may have heard them say they were police, and just didn't realize. Being startled awake you are not functioning. But your brain usually is. So, he might not have realized he heard it. As for what I would do in that situation, I couldn't tell you unless it happened

 

[newbuckeye]

I know from my time as a LEO, if it is a drug raid (or other type no knock) type entry, the presence of a guard dog is part of the initial briefing. A silenced small caliber hand gun was sometimes used to dispatch said pooch.

As for the LEO's parking down the block "like Ninjas", that was SOP for us. You NEVER drove right up to the address. That could make a bad situation explode.

This is good reason to not sleep fully dressed. A guy with nothing on but boxers and sleepy eyes holding a gun might be scary, but a lot easier to recognize as a homeowner rather than a BG.


BTW....good training scenario OP!

 

[Buck Snort]

Since I'm not involved in any type of criminal activity said episode results in me opening fire at the first opportunity and if it is indeed the cops then that's the day I die!!

 

[9mmepiphany]

Since I'm not involved in any type of criminal activity said episode results in me opening fire at the first opportunity and if it is indeed the cops then that's the day I die!!

Can one gather from this that either you did not read post #31 or #51 or that you simply reject the logic of post #62