coyotehitman
member
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- Dec 29, 2007
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- 558
A stalking protection order. Enforceable nationwide and an arrest is nearly guaranteed if he violates the order, which includes calling after it goes into effect.
Abusive Ex-bf, threatens, calls us @ work to say "I'm in the house"
- Thread starter wacki
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Ex BF or ex husband?
They own a house together and he is her ex boyfriend?
BullfrogKen gave the best advice. You are focusing on minor details, and simply being used as the knight.
If the guy does have valid reasons to be in your lives, like owning the home, and being involved in the process to change the paperwork on a new loan then you can't just cut him off unless you want to deal with it all through the courts, in a much more expensive way, while fattening the wallets of lawyers.
Further if she does not actualy have legal claim to the home that might be a reason she wishes to avoid the courts.
It sounds like your girlfriend is using you as a personal bodyguard for the time being.
If however you do shoot him, you are much more likely to be convicted in a court of law in a love triangle.
At which point your life will forever be impacted, and she would probably just move on while you sit in a cell.
Don't be manipulated. Don't get knee deep in drama someone else is creating and unwilling to put an end to.
Also consider the situation from a neutral position. Is she selling the home and dividing it equaly? Is she even a legal co-owner with him entitling her to half? Is she trying to refinance and get current value for the home on a new loan which is greater than previous value, and then give the man less than he is actualy entitled to? (which is all of it if he is the sole owner, and they were just boyfriend and girlfriend.)
It sounds to me like she may be trying to take the equity out of a home she is not the sole owner of (if owner at all), and be the one to mainly benefit from it.
I had typed up a long reply, but the bottom line is it sounds like you are being manipulated. Maybe the guy does things wrong, but it sounds like she does plenty herself.
If she is trying to screw her ex over, remember you may one day be her ex.
Perhaps she will then find a new knight in shining armor to "rescue" her from you while taking your stuff.
If you do need a valid restraining order that means all processes including those involving the home will be done through third parties, mainly lawyers which will not be cheap.
If he really is a danger then its only money. If she is not a joint owner, and was just his girlfriend in his home it also means she could end up getting nothing or it could become a much more complex issue when all the formalities are done through lawyers in a court of law.
They own a house together and he is her ex boyfriend?
BullfrogKen gave the best advice. You are focusing on minor details, and simply being used as the knight.
If the guy does have valid reasons to be in your lives, like owning the home, and being involved in the process to change the paperwork on a new loan then you can't just cut him off unless you want to deal with it all through the courts, in a much more expensive way, while fattening the wallets of lawyers.
Further if she does not actualy have legal claim to the home that might be a reason she wishes to avoid the courts.
It sounds like your girlfriend is using you as a personal bodyguard for the time being.
If however you do shoot him, you are much more likely to be convicted in a court of law in a love triangle.
At which point your life will forever be impacted, and she would probably just move on while you sit in a cell.
Don't be manipulated. Don't get knee deep in drama someone else is creating and unwilling to put an end to.
Also consider the situation from a neutral position. Is she selling the home and dividing it equaly? Is she even a legal co-owner with him entitling her to half? Is she trying to refinance and get current value for the home on a new loan which is greater than previous value, and then give the man less than he is actualy entitled to? (which is all of it if he is the sole owner, and they were just boyfriend and girlfriend.)
It sounds to me like she may be trying to take the equity out of a home she is not the sole owner of (if owner at all), and be the one to mainly benefit from it.
I had typed up a long reply, but the bottom line is it sounds like you are being manipulated. Maybe the guy does things wrong, but it sounds like she does plenty herself.
If she is trying to screw her ex over, remember you may one day be her ex.
Perhaps she will then find a new knight in shining armor to "rescue" her from you while taking your stuff.
If you do need a valid restraining order that means all processes including those involving the home will be done through third parties, mainly lawyers which will not be cheap.
If he really is a danger then its only money. If she is not a joint owner, and was just his girlfriend in his home it also means she could end up getting nothing or it could become a much more complex issue when all the formalities are done through lawyers in a court of law.
ZeSpectre
Member
As Oleg put it... Clarity on the worth of order of protection
Or as I've said over and over and over...
but in all seriousness, I'm with the other folks that say you need to walk. If she's not completely dis-engaged from this guy why would you buy into that world of headache and hurt?
Cosmoline
Member
Change the locks. Get a DVRO PRONTO! Both for you and the GF. Do not get into any verbal badinage with the idiot. Make no threats and have no communications with him. Do all your talking through counsel. Do not be used as the "knight in shining armor," as others have noted. If this is entirely her issue and does not involve you, then exit the matter.
sacp81170a
Member
Like someone has mentioned before, don't do stupid things, don't go stupid places and don't hang around stupid people. There's little more that needs to be said. The only way I can relate this to firearms is how to keep from having to use them or lose your rights to them in this scenario. That's already been hashed to death, so I'll be moving on, as should the OP. Where is he, BTW?
wacki
Member
I live somewhere else. He has a different house and an apartment that he lives in. My gf and I live over an hour apart (opposite sides of town) so visiting each other tends to occur in multi-day spurts. I'm seriously considering not visiting her home until this mess is resolved despite the fact that he is supposed to be in a different country for the next 6 weeks.
We left for the weekend and he was scheduled to move his stuff out of the house. It is currently all boxed up in the basement. He is an odd fellow. He spent a considerable amount of time calling and yelling at her but fixed things around the house while we were gone. We were having trouble finding where the invisible fence was located and he pulled it up and spliced it together. He did not remove any of his belongings/boxes in the basement. He did take a rather crappy TV that he had originally promised to leave her when they broke up. He is a mixture of good guy/bad guy. His good aspects has made me wonder (for just a few microseconds) if he is really all that bad, but his psychotic obsessiveness and rants quickly shake that doubt.
My gf has agreed to record the calls but we need to buy some equipment first. Not sure what is best here... She's also agreed to change the locks even though the paperwork isn't finalized.
I'll be talking to a lawyer/cop shortly.
I'm also going to talk go to a professional therapist as conwict and others are making me wonder about my own decision making. I generally am very nurturing and protective and so they may be right. I also don't give up on people easily. It will be extremely tough for me to give up on someone that treats me as well as she does. Not sure what to think here.
As for her well she def has suffered from depression and was treated for it. We talked over the weekend about her going back. She's come a long way since I met her but obviously not long enough. It's tough when your life savings is at risk and I feel uncomfortable in making ultimatums that might cost someone else (anyone else) a lot of money. There is a first time for everything though....
Robert Hairless
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- Joined
- Oct 11, 2003
- Messages
- 3,983
Wacki, if this is "true love" between you and her it will survive the time it takes for both of you to get your acts cleaned up. Then there will be two healthy people coming together instead of this melodrama.
One other thing you need to process, both for understanding this situation and for not getting into your own version of it. Your girlfriend got herself into a mess because she was unrealistic. For whatever reason, she and her current boyfriend--which, by the way, is not you--created their own relationship on terms that only they understand. If they had been what we used to call by the quaint term "married," there's a body of law that applies to the distribution of property and the rules of disengagement. Since they were freethinking, unconventional, deliciously blithe spirits who rose above the level of social restraints, they have to make up their own rules about how they separate.
You've surely noticed that so far they are not really separated. I'd wager some serious money is that the reason why they are not is that neither of them really wants out.
One other thing you need to process, both for understanding this situation and for not getting into your own version of it. Your girlfriend got herself into a mess because she was unrealistic. For whatever reason, she and her current boyfriend--which, by the way, is not you--created their own relationship on terms that only they understand. If they had been what we used to call by the quaint term "married," there's a body of law that applies to the distribution of property and the rules of disengagement. Since they were freethinking, unconventional, deliciously blithe spirits who rose above the level of social restraints, they have to make up their own rules about how they separate.
You've surely noticed that so far they are not really separated. I'd wager some serious money is that the reason why they are not is that neither of them really wants out.
BullfrogKen
Moderator Emeritus
I concur with Robert.
I especially think his comments how the relationship she's currently in works -- and that's not referring to the one you and she share -- are spot on.
During the course of history the things men have killed one another over are essentially few and pretty common. In every society, in every culture, no matter the time period involved, two offensive acts cause bloodshed more than any other:
You're messing around knee deep in two areas men have defended instinctually with force since mankind began.
Since there are no customary rituals for ending the type of relationship she's currently in, they're going to have to decide what constitutes "divorce". It appears he's not convinced the "divorce" is final, and she's done little to persuade him it is.
Ask yourself why that might be. And while you're at it, ask yourself if she's worth fighting mortal combat over.
I especially think his comments how the relationship she's currently in works -- and that's not referring to the one you and she share -- are spot on.
During the course of history the things men have killed one another over are essentially few and pretty common. In every society, in every culture, no matter the time period involved, two offensive acts cause bloodshed more than any other:
- Taking a man's property
- Sleeping with a man's woman
You're messing around knee deep in two areas men have defended instinctually with force since mankind began.
Since there are no customary rituals for ending the type of relationship she's currently in, they're going to have to decide what constitutes "divorce". It appears he's not convinced the "divorce" is final, and she's done little to persuade him it is.
Ask yourself why that might be. And while you're at it, ask yourself if she's worth fighting mortal combat over.
Powderman
Member
Here it is, in a nutshell....
1. If you have not done so, call the police, RIGHT NOW.
Present all the information you have given here. Get a report filed.
2. Visit your local Court. File for an Order of Protection. You will be granted what is known as an ex parte order--the court date for the permanent one is usually 14 days after the issuance of the temp order.
3. When the court date comes up, make SURE you show up. Document EVERYTHING--every phone call, the contents of the conversations, especially--MOST especially the beheaded teddy bear.
One poster has said that he can not be barred from his own property. I beg to differ.
In cases of Domestic Violence, the primary aggressor is routinely told to leave, immediately! It does not matter if his name is on the deed or whatever. He (or in some cases, she) leaves and does not come back until the Court says it's OK, under penalty of arrest.
4. REMEMBER THIS WELL--AN ORDER OF PROTECTION/NO-CONTACT/ANTI-HARASSMENT ORDER IS NOTHING MORE THAN A PIECE OF PAPER. As much as we would LOVE to be there when some idiot violates the no-contact order, it is a sad truth that the police are retroactive as a rule. We get there AFTER bad things happen. We would LOVE to be there before it happens. (I positively LOVE dealing with bullies!!!
)If you want to stand by this woman, that is your decision, and I pray that it all works for you. In the meantime, stand to and prepare to repel boarders.
i was browsing for cell phone tapping:
http://www.prlog.org/10006566-call-recorder-cards-tap-into-cell-phone-market.html
http://www.spy-equipment-buying-guide.com/cell-phone-tap.html
maybe, there's a better way?
http://www.prlog.org/10006566-call-recorder-cards-tap-into-cell-phone-market.html
http://www.spy-equipment-buying-guide.com/cell-phone-tap.html
maybe, there's a better way?
OMGWTFBBQ
Member
I personally don't have the patience for drama, deceit, or manipulation in a relationship, and I would advise you to stay out of her business concerning him, and to leave an escape route available and to take it as soon as it closing seems imminent. If I were in your shoes, I'd atleast be telling her straight up that SHE needs to fix HER problem, because I don't feel like getting mixed up in something ugly.
Bubbles
Member
I have a digital recorder on my phone that cost around $100, and it more than paid for itself when dealing with an unethical contractor. It was extremely easy to install and use.
Just a hunch, but I suspect the gf may not want to involve the police until after the real-estate deal is done for fear the ex-bf will refuse to sell her his share of the house. There's nothing forcing him to attend the closing, and it's not like he has any incentive to buy her out either. As long as he still owns half the house, he has a tie to her, and he may not want to give that up.
Just a hunch, but I suspect the gf may not want to involve the police until after the real-estate deal is done for fear the ex-bf will refuse to sell her his share of the house. There's nothing forcing him to attend the closing, and it's not like he has any incentive to buy her out either. As long as he still owns half the house, he has a tie to her, and he may not want to give that up.
TexasChick
Member
- Joined
- Jan 20, 2008
- Messages
- 17
When things in life start snowballing, it’s good to take time to thaw out.
No matter how “nurturing and protective" you are, you do not want to get caught up in a snowball of irrational thinking because of others refusal to change.
You’ve got to decide how far you are willing to go try to rescuing others who refuse to act reasonable. Same thing is true for the girlfriend. She will have to decide for herself how much she is willing to tolerate from the ex before she’s willing to change her behavior.
Your no should always mean “NO”. You can't help others who are not willing to help themselves.
My advice is to equip yourself by reading: The Gift of Fear and other survival signals that protect us from violence by Gavin De Becker
You've been given some great advice in the above posts, I hope you’ll heed it because it can save your life. See post #59
No matter how “nurturing and protective" you are, you do not want to get caught up in a snowball of irrational thinking because of others refusal to change.
You’ve got to decide how far you are willing to go try to rescuing others who refuse to act reasonable. Same thing is true for the girlfriend. She will have to decide for herself how much she is willing to tolerate from the ex before she’s willing to change her behavior.
Your no should always mean “NO”. You can't help others who are not willing to help themselves.
My advice is to equip yourself by reading: The Gift of Fear and other survival signals that protect us from violence by Gavin De Becker
You've been given some great advice in the above posts, I hope you’ll heed it because it can save your life. See post #59
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I am not sure why, but some women seem to have a thing for not so nice guys. Then they get in over their head and try to get a nice guy to help them out, but really they don't want out, they just want to make the not so nice guy jealous so he pays more attention to her.
Another poster mentioned that women with baggage need to deal with that baggage. You won't ever be able to do anything about it, only she can, and it seems that she does not want to, or she would already have done so.
If nothing else, this shows the plain stupidity of buying property in common with someone you are not married to.
Another poster mentioned that women with baggage need to deal with that baggage. You won't ever be able to do anything about it, only she can, and it seems that she does not want to, or she would already have done so.
If nothing else, this shows the plain stupidity of buying property in common with someone you are not married to.
ZeSpectre:
Its not a magic shield, but an asset when explaining to the cops why the GF's ex-husband is bleeding on the foyer floor he partially owns.
Plus it shows the GF wants to resolve the situation and not just bask in the drama.
Kharn
Its not a magic shield, but an asset when explaining to the cops why the GF's ex-husband is bleeding on the foyer floor he partially owns.
Plus it shows the GF wants to resolve the situation and not just bask in the drama.
Kharn
doc540
Member
fwiw:
The most dangerous place in the world is NOT between a mother lion and her cubs.
It's between two people in a domestic dispute.
The most dangerous place in the world is NOT between a mother lion and her cubs.
It's between two people in a domestic dispute.
I havent read this whole thread but plan to, but you come home to a beheaded stuff bear, messages on her vmail, constant threats and she doesn't want the police involved? Why not? Am I missing something...you sure they're not talkin when you're not around...sorry to put that out there but if things are as bad as they sound in the first post I'm getting a paper trail going ASAP I want to have as much documented if I ever had to clear leather...Also sounds to me like a dangerous situation to be in. Guy a couple a years ago went into TDOT(TN Dept of Trans) shot up his ex/wife, delivery driver and a couple of other people.
Crazy mofo's like this you don't take lightly
Crazy mofo's like this you don't take lightly
eatont9999
Member
Save his threats. Keep detailed records and witnesses.
Get a restraining order.
Put a security system on the house.
Change the locks if it makes you feel better. If he wants in, locks are a small inconvenience.
Both of you carry at all times, even to work.
Be aware of where you are and who is around you at all times.
Know what he looks like. Watch him in person so you can recognize him anywhere.
Be familiar with side streets and shortcuts if you get into a car chase or he decides to tail you.
Get a restraining order.
Put a security system on the house.
Change the locks if it makes you feel better. If he wants in, locks are a small inconvenience.
Both of you carry at all times, even to work.
Be aware of where you are and who is around you at all times.
Know what he looks like. Watch him in person so you can recognize him anywhere.
Be familiar with side streets and shortcuts if you get into a car chase or he decides to tail you.
Well, I can't say what I would do if she was my sister...because we do things very un High Road down here when it gets to abusive exs threatning loved ones, but getting the cops involved is the minimum you need to do.
This guy is extremely dangerous. Treat him as such.
This guy is extremely dangerous. Treat him as such.
wacki
Member
I talked to two police officers today. No chance of restraining order unless I have some hard evidence like an audio recording. Cops say as long as one person within a conversation ok's the recording then a recording of the conversation can be made. So it looks like we are in the clear.
We both talked to a banking lawyer to see what could be done to speed up the process... not much luck. But he did say it wouldn't take a full 6 weeks.
Her mom thinks this is no big deal and I'm over reacting at which point I want to smack her silly. All of her friends and co-workers think this situation is insanity and think a restraining order is mandatory. That's heading for non-THR material and I'm not going to delve to deep into that. At this very moment I believe she's doing everything she can to speed up the process. She's also agreed to record the messages.
This is one of many aspects that scares her to death. If this guy is in the USA I'm not going near her house. As for the rest of the relationship well that's something that doesn't belong here. I care for her deeply and I'm going to get professional advice. Some things said here hit close to home and have given me food for thought but many people are being too harsh on her. Probably a fault of my own for trying to be concise. Heck, I think I was too harsh on her today as well and brought up issues with her that I know aren't true. Hopefully all parties involved will make wise decisions in the future no matter how difficult they may be.
Thanks for all of those that offered advice. Pray that this works out for the best.
We both talked to a banking lawyer to see what could be done to speed up the process... not much luck. But he did say it wouldn't take a full 6 weeks.
Her mom thinks this is no big deal and I'm over reacting at which point I want to smack her silly. All of her friends and co-workers think this situation is insanity and think a restraining order is mandatory. That's heading for non-THR material and I'm not going to delve to deep into that. At this very moment I believe she's doing everything she can to speed up the process. She's also agreed to record the messages.
This is one of many aspects that scares her to death. If this guy is in the USA I'm not going near her house. As for the rest of the relationship well that's something that doesn't belong here. I care for her deeply and I'm going to get professional advice. Some things said here hit close to home and have given me food for thought but many people are being too harsh on her. Probably a fault of my own for trying to be concise. Heck, I think I was too harsh on her today as well and brought up issues with her that I know aren't true. Hopefully all parties involved will make wise decisions in the future no matter how difficult they may be.
Thanks for all of those that offered advice. Pray that this works out for the best.
You didnt keep the voicemails? Seems that would help with the order....I don't blame you for trying to stay away from him, dont go looking for trouble. As far as the GF I'd want this BF thing cleared up ASAP if we were moving fwd in out relationship
g/l with everything
g/l with everything
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