ACLU to monitor Minuteman Project

[Desertdog]

Maybe, those gang members will mistaken some of the ACLU "observers", if they can find any, for the Minutemen and retaliate against them.

INVASION USA
ACLU to monitor Minuteman Project
Making sure 'rights' of illegals not violated by civilian border patrol
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=43220

Posted: March 10, 2005
1:00 a.m. Eastern

© 2005 WorldNetDaily.com

While hundreds of Americans plan to take part in volunteer patrols of the U.S.-Mexican border next month, they'll apparently have some company from the American Civil Liberties Union.

According to the Tucson Citizen, the Arizona chapter of the ACLU wants to monitor the activities of those on patrol.


The group is looking to recruit "observers" who will trail the Minuteman members searching for illegal aliens along the border in Cochise County, Ariz.

"We will be there to make sure they're not abusing anybody's rights," the ACLU's Ray Ybarra told the paper.

He says a team of attorneys will be ready to file civil cases against project participants should any abuses occur.

A team of lawyers will be on hand to file civil cases against Minuteman participants if abuses occur, he said.

Over the next month, the group is planning training sessions for volunteers in Tucson, Douglas and Phoenix.

Some 750 Minutemen are ready to show up in Tombstone to start policing the border and dealing with illegal immigration, and they could encounter some dangerous situations.

As WorldNetDaily reported this week, a leader of the violent, terror-connected Latin American gang Mara Salvatruchas, Ebner Anivel Rivera-Paz, has reportedly issued orders from federal prison to members of his international criminal organization to teach a lesson to the group of Americans taking border control into their own hands.

The Mara Salvatruchas, founded in Los Angeles, has become one of the most violent and widespread gangs throughout South America, the U.S. and even Canada. Many of its members and leaders have been deported from the U.S., but the group is said to be deeply involved in cross-border arms-running and drug-smuggling operations, according to U.S. law enforcement sources.

 

[cracked butt]

As usual and expected, The ACLU is once again on the wrong side of things. And yes it would be terrible if some of their lawyers get caught in firefights between minutemen and the coyotes.

 

[Fletchette]

So, if the ACLU is sending people out into the desert at night...will they be armed?

 

[yorec]

The ACLU to the rescued!!! NOT.

As usual, they're as welcome as a bad disease.

 

[Desertdog]

So, if the ACLU is sending people out into the desert at night...will they be armed?

No way. The cowardly ACLU lawyers will be in town waiting to file charges, not out looking for "abuses" as told in the story,

The group is looking to recruit "observers" who will trail the Minuteman members searching for illegal aliens along the border in Cochise County, Ariz.

 

[Nazirite]

What’s rights do illegal aliens have? :banghead: They’re not American citizens, our constitution doesn't apply to them.

 

[Keaner]

Nazirite What’s rights do illegal aliens have? They’re not American citizens, our constitution doesn't apply to them.

Actually, they have FULL protections of the rights guarenteed by the constitution. The Bill of Rights is an acknowledgement of our NATURAL rights, rights given to us by the Creator/birth/etc. The Bill of Rights was set in place to make sure that the government doesnt trample these natural rights.

Just because they are not americans, doesnt mean they dont have natural rights. Everyone in the world should be afforded these rights by good governments, and, if not, the government should be taken out,as they are tyrannts.

 

[DRZinn]

they have FULL protections of the rights guarenteed by the constitution...

...and many more that they neglected to mention, but you can bet those aren't what the ACLU will be concerned about. They'll be looking for "abuses" like not letting people walk freely over the border into the United States....

 

[CAPTAIN MIKE]

Okay, Let's See If I've Got This Correctly....

Hmmmm....Let's See....

1. A bunch of economic immigrants who don't care about respecting U.S. national sovereignty and U.S. immigration rules on proper and correct legal immigration into the United States stream across the U.S. southern borders every year at the rate of X Million people a year.

2. The official U.S. Border Patrol is undermanned and often out-maneurvered in the field.

3. The governors of the Border States have failed to Mobilize their state's national guard to back-up the federal Border Patrol.

4. Mexico (and its President Vincente Fox) officially sponsored "how-to" brochures in Spanish for Mexican citizens to use so they know the best routes to take, time of day for various patrols, and how to get around the U.S. immigration laws.

5. U.S. citizens who wish to assist and provide 'eyes and ears' for our border patrol are now going to be Monitored by a bunch of ACLU types who want to protect the criminal and terrorists.

6. A bunch of violent South American gang-bangers and their recruiters wish to teach the Americanos a 'lesson' about protecting our borders from the likes of them.

So my question is --- Who's going PROTECT US From the ACLU ????

 

[cuchulainn]

1) So what if the ACLU wants to watch things and make sure that people behave? What's wrong with simply observing -- especially if the so-called "Minutemen" are the benign and peaceful group they claim to be? Do you think this is some sort of intimidation tactic? Do you really expect civil rights groups to simply shrug and go back to their business when they look upon a group of armed men who intend to engage in quasi-law-enforcement activites that will fall outside the legal limitations placed on government law enforcement?

2) Keaner is correct: aliens enjoy most of the protections in the Bill of Rights. Like it or not, courts have affirmed such protections many times (the Patriot Act notwithstanding).

 

[nico]

Crap like this is why I'll never support the ACLU without a huge shift in their policy. They do a decent amount of good, but things like this erase any benefit they have to society in my opinion. Every once in a while, someone tries to lecture me on how the ACLU does more for my civil rights than I'll ever imagine and how I should respect them. Pointing out that the ACLU thinks the Bill of Rights is numbered 1, 3, 4, etc. usually ends the argument with them getting annoyed.

 

[Sean Smith]

Ah yes, the hypocritical American some Civil Liberties Union. Is every once-sorta-worthwhile organization (ACLU, NAACP, some feminist orgs, etc.) doomed to become a bunch of crazed neo-hippie ****** bags?

 

[cracked butt]

Do you really expect civil rights groups to simply shrug and go back to their business when they look upon a group of armed men who intend to engage in quasi-law-enforcement activites that will fall outside the legal limitations placed on government law enforcement?

One of the key roles of our government is to defend our borders. If the government chooses not to do it, citizens have every right to. Just because the Minutemen are not anointed by the government and haven't been taught the secret handshake of the federal government, doesn't mean they don't have a right to watch our borders.

 

[cuchulainn]

cracked butt: Just because the Minutemen are not anointed by the government and haven't been taught the secret handshake of the federal government, doesn't mean they don't have a right to watch our borders.

I never said they don't have that right -- and neither did the ACLU. As I understand it, the ACLU is not challenging their intent to watch to borders; rather the organization has simply said it will observe the situation for any potential abuses, which, incidentally, is the ACLU's right.

I have no idea if I will agree with any possible ACLU actions, but right now, I cannot see the point in getting worked up over a plan to be an observer in a situation that, if I put myself in the ACLU's shoes, does raise some red flags.

Consider the following analogy and please be indulgent at the point where it breaks down over the issue of rights (RKBA) versus non-rights (immigration).

Imagine if the Million Mom March created the "Minute-Moms" to go into gun shops and gun shows to "help stem the flood of guns into illegal hands" by reporting any potential background check violations to the ATF. That's their right. Now imagine if the NRA in turn announced that it would be observing the observers for potential rights violations. That's the NRA's right.

That's all the ACLU is doing here ... for now.

 

[ralphie98]

I just don't see what place the ACLU has out there. What rights would these minutemen be violating? All they want to do is have the illegals arrested or at least chase them back across the border. I doubt these guys are out there with the intentions to tie up mexicans and beat them. There really wouldn't be an argument for the illegals being unlawfully detained since they are breaking the law by coming here. I feel just as Desertdog does, that the lawyers are just waiting out there salivating at the chance to jump all over the minutemen for so much as touching a hair on a Mexican's head.

The ACLU lost me with the NAMBLA thing... I'm sure they still do some good but when they supported those yahoos it just overshadowed everything else.

 

[Dead]

Hell I would work for the ACLU on this one.. "All clear out the Southern Front" is all I can think of.

By the way if the minutemen are on private property with the permission of the landowner couldnt they carry anything they want, and detain people as well?? I mean if you have people that are trespassing at night, and possibliy armed, doesnt that mean anything in this county anymore?

 

[erikm]

Hmm. . . Interesting possibilities for comedy here

Wouldn't it be funny if the ACLU observers followed the Minutemen . . . . right onto privately owned land, only to be arrested by the minutemen (who are operating under the owner's permission) for trespassing?

Here's to the Minutemen!

Cheers,
ErikM

 

[longeyes]

It's only a matter of time before the Minutemen, or an equivalent organization, begin to monitor the ACLU, who have themselves become "border jumpers."

I think we all see where this is heading. If the "rule of law" means we are serfs and have to bow down and shut up, the rule of law will require adjustment. The ACLU has turned into a bully that beats people up with a briefcase. Situations like that last only so long.

 

[longrifleman]

What's wrong with simply observing -- especially if the so-called "Minutemen" are the benign and peaceful group they claim to be?

The first thing that comes to mind is that I wouldn't trust the ACLU not to lie their butts off to frame someone to advance their agenda. I also wouldn't trust the Mexicans or some other organization like La Raza not to set up an intentional confrontation in front of the "observers" for propaganda purposes. Preferrably with lots of blood.

I mean if you have people that are trespassing at night, and possibliy armed, doesnt that mean anything in this county anymore?

No. Unfortunately.

 

[Jay Kominek]

Seems like, either the Minutemen will be on private property, where the ACLU observers can't follow, or they'll be deep into chunks of public land, and the observers aren't likely to be the types who are prepared to follow that far. Let alone track the Minutemen if/when they lose their observers.

Personally, I'm predicting that the two dozen observers won't be observing much besides their Starbucks mocha lattes in town, right with the lawyers.

 

[nico]

Imagine if the Million Mom March created the "Minute-Moms" to go into gun shops and gun shows to "help stem the flood of guns into illegal hands" by reporting any potential background check violations to the ATF. That's their right. Now imagine if the NRA in turn announced that it would be observing the observers for potential rights violations. That's the NRA's right.

that's a pretty lowsy analogy. The minute men are going to a place where the only type of "immigration" that's going on is illegal. Your analogy would make MUCH more sense, if the "minute moms" were going to areas where black market gun sales occur regularly to document what was going on. And if that were the case, the "minute moms" would be completely in the right and the NRA would be just as wrong as the ACLU is because they would be sticking up for criminals against people who were trying to help with a real problem.

 

[Waitone]

I got a bad feeling about the upcoming Militia activity on the border.

Throw the following into a large pot:
--Militia types. Not necessarily gun nuts but certainly people who think the federales are a failure by design or accident.
--Border Patrol and other federal and state organizations worried the Militia types will get stoopid.
--Mexican government groups that carry arms.
--Drug runners who are not used to being hindered in conducting business.
--Mexican advocacy groups like La Raza looking for an excuse to thump the militia types.
--ACLU looking for its latest jihad against self determination.
--South American and Mexican gangs disturbed that militia types will disrupt their drug and gun running operations.
--The media which loves to thump matches in a refinery.
--Administration who wants the whole thing to go away for the time being.
--Certain statists in congress just looking for an excuse to crack down on militiasgunetc.
--Mexican government PO'd that anyone dare hinder its genocide of its own citizens.

This could be really interesting. My prediction is the militia types will catch a full ration trouble for daring to point out the failure of the federales. I wonder if there are plans for a legal defense fund.

 

[2nd Amendment]

I feel safe in saying the lawsuits, and the "victims", are already lined up...

 

[Standing Wolf]

I'm sure there are more people keeping close tabs on the Minutemen than have even thought about keeping an eye out for illegal aliens.

The inmates have taken over the asylum.

 

[spartacus2002]

Here are my thoughts, were I part of this project:

OK, we're POed at the ACLU for jumping to the side of the illegals. But, here's how to turn it to our advantage: welcome them and make them part of the team. Be courteous, be gracious, be solicitous. Give them nothing bad and everything good to report. Let them know the Minutemen understand and respect their concern for the illegals, because the Minutemen don't want any mistreatment of the illegals either.

Hell, invite reporters along with the teams, too. I imagine plenty of them have no idea of the hordes crossing the border each day; might be a wakeup call for them.

Think of it in terms of Information Operations. If that sounds pollyanna-ish, well, think "embedded reporter." The Pentagon was WAAAAY ahead of us on this one.....