ACLU to monitor Minuteman Project

[Old Fuff]

The Old Fuff, who is in the neighborhood, expects:

1. The self-styled Minutemen, who will go out into our sometimes unfriendly desert to watch for border-crossers.

2. The news media (so far they haven't been noticed). All of your favorite left-wing talking heads will likely report for duty.

3. The ACLU types (and maybe the United Nation) observers doing their thing.

4. The Border Patrol, and other federal, state and local law enforcement types who will be called on to control the situation, not to mention traffic on our back roads.

5. The winter tourists (snowbirds) who need someting to do.

6. Local folks, like the "Fuff" who are going around doing their regular things.

And last but not least, don't forget Tombstone's Chamber of Commerce, who will see to it that the local businessmen make big bucks off of this.

As for the border crossers - they will simply go out a little further and come in the many places that nobody's watching because everyone is over by Tombstone.

Ah, such fun ...

 

[Desertdog]

welcome them and make them part of the team.

One of the best ideas I have seem so far. It comes in second though, as this sounds like a better one.

QUOTE]Hell, invite reporters along with the teams, too.[/QUOTE]

Let's take our cues from the military in Iraq.

 

[Bear Gulch]

I'd happilly swap Mexico our ACLU parasites and most of our media pukes for some hard working folk who understand the opportunities that liveing here afford folks.

 

[cracked butt]

I'd happilly swap Mexico our ACLU parasites and most of our media pukes for some hard working folk who understand the opportunities that liveing here afford folks.

+1

 

[ProactiveReactionary]

what rights do people who are not citizens of this country have? the right to remain silent? thats about it as far as i can tell.

out constitution doesnt protect non citizens, which illegal aliens are, non citizens, so they are not and should not be afforded the same rights that i an american citizen have.


its a sad state of affairs when groups like the ACLU are more concerned about making sure illegal invaders (lets face it when you come here legally, its immigration, when you sneak across a border illegally its invading) get into our country than they are about the rights of the people that are citizens here.

there is nothing illegal or wrong with watching/observing and reporting. its something people should do not only at the border but in their own neighborhoods as well. its being vigilant.

and since the border patrol is regularlly underfunded and too small to begin with they need all the help they can get. they're only getting a small percentage of those crossing the border and many of the ones they pick up they have picked up before at least once.

the ACLU could be outlawed tommorow and i wouldnt lose a wink of sleep over it. there is such as thing as being an advocate of people's rights and they arent doing that. they attack anything christian (i'm not even religious but come on! give christians a break over nativity scenes for crying out loud!)

the ACLU annoys me to no end

 

[Jay Kominek]

what rights do people who are not citizens of this country have? the right to remain silent? thats about it as far as i can tell.

...as has been explained, they've got all the same rights citizens do. Both because those are natural rights every human being is born with, and because the Supreme Court says the Feds have got to protect those rights.

You can say it ain't so until you're blue in the face, but reality isn't going away. Sorry.

(The nativity scenes are a bit outside the scope of this thread. However, none of my neighbors ever got a letter from the ACLU about theirs. That is all I personally feel the need to say about it.)

 

[CarbineKid]

Why is it so hard to call illegal aliens CRIMINALS. They are breaking US law by trying to invade the country in the first place. IMHO criminals have NO rights.

 

[Jay Kominek]

Why is it so hard to call illegal aliens CRIMINALS.

I didn't see anyone disputing their criminal status.

IMHO criminals have NO rights.

So the next time you're pulled over for speeding, it'll be ok for the cop to drag you out of the car and execute you on the side of the road? Or maybe if you cheat a few dollars on your taxes, the IRS can just carpet bomb your house?

Look, everybody has got rights. It is patently silly to go on about how this or that class of person you don't like has no rights. Even people being executed have some rights.

If the Minutemen can legally wander around in the desert looking for illegals, the ACLU can legally wander around in the desert looking for the Minutemen. So far, all they've done is say they're going to wander around in the desert. They've not even done that yet, let alone sued anyone.

Save your energy for when (if) they do. I doubt they'll get that far.

 

[Art Eatman]

I guess my problem is with the ACLU's preconceived notion that only the Minutemen will be violating anybody's "rights".

Yup, the Minutemen oughta co-opt the ACLU by "embedding" them. Make sure the Minutemen's rights aren't violated. If any group stands to be falsely accused, they're the targets.

Art

 

[fistful]

Even if the Minutemen are perfect gentlemen, all the ACLU need do is tell the media that there were "human rights abuses" and it will be reported as such, even if the "abuses" amount only to discrimination and threats. How dare we discriminate between legal and illegal entry and threaten suspected criminals in order to deter them?

This reminds me of the weeks after Abu Graib broke, when the Red Cross glommed on with their own accounts of "torture." All I recall hearing from them were hideous tortures like nakedness, pitch-dark jail cells, and sleep deprivation. Sorry if those subjects offended Art's Grandma. Oh, I nearly forgot; suspected high-ranking terrorists were singled out for "special treatment." Horrors!

as has been explained, they've got all the same rights citizens do.

I know what you're trying to say, man, but they don't have ALL of our rights. May they vote, run for office, or petition the government?

Imagine if the Million Mom March created the "Minute-Moms" to go into gun shops and gun shows to "help stem the flood of guns into illegal hands" by reporting any potential background check violations to the ATF. That's their right.

It's their right to report what they see, but it is the right of the gun show organizors or gun store owners to keep them out in the first place.

 

[Zundfolge]

out constitution doesnt protect non citizens, which illegal aliens are, non citizens, so they are not and should not be afforded the same rights that i an american citizen have.

I think you're looking at our constitution backward.

the constitution doesn't "afford" or "give" us our rights, they exist regardless of what government we live under. All our constitution does is tell our government where its limits are.

As far as I can tell these "Minutemen" are not agents of the government and therefore the constitution doesn't apply (however there are plenty of other laws that do restrict their behavior).



I, for one, don't hate the ACLU ... don't like 'em either but they do serve a useful purpose once in a while (especially where it comes to 1st amendment issues ... except for freedom of religion, and 4th & 5th amendment issues).


We all bitched 'n moaned when "observers" from the UN et al came here to the states to "observe" our last election and make sure everything is on the "up and up" ... all that really happened is that the observers saw no wrongdoing and went away looking kinda silly (and on some level skuttled the lefts complaints about the election results).

I imagine thats all that will happen here ... the ACLU is just trying to get a little time in front of the cameras for fundraising. Worse thing they'll do is leave the kids at Starbucks with lousy tips before they quietly return home.

Their announcement is the most we'll hear from them.

 

[Jay Kominek]

I know what you're trying to say, man, but they don't have ALL of our rights. May they vote, run for office, or petition the government?

Oops, you're quite right. I was sloppy. Sorry.
As you say though, you've got the idea.

Their announcement is the most we'll hear from them.

Yup.

 

[fistful]

Jay,

Good sig line.

 

[Silver Bullet]

Is every once-sorta-worthwhile organization (ACLU, NAACP, some feminist orgs, etc.) doomed to become a bunch of crazed neo-hippie ****** bags?

And you can add the NEA, the AARP, and quite a few “environmental†groups. ‘Cept I wouldn’t characterize them as neo-hippie, just out-and-out socialists ... or worse.

I'd happilly swap Mexico our ACLU parasites and most of our media pukes for some hard working folk who understand the opportunities that liveing here afford folks.

Another +1.

guess my problem is with the ACLU's preconceived notion that only the Minutemen will be violating anybody's "rights".

Yup, the Minutemen oughta co-opt the ACLU by "embedding" them. Make sure the Minutemen's rights aren't violated. If any group stands to be falsely accused, they're the targets.

Right as usual, Art.

All our constitution does is tell our government where its limits are.

I wish more people understood this.

Informative thread.

 

[DRZinn]

May they vote, ...or petition the government?

Well...

 

[Bear Gulch]

The ACLU stands up for every hairball group (like NAMBLA). Silly me, but I don't thinnk that they really give a rosy rhino's rump about our society.

 

[55 gr sx]

I truly belive the bigist wepon ether side can have is a digtal video cam so it can go on the net . Each team should have at least one video camra person & and a still photgher
IT HAS TO GO ON THE NET, SO ITS NOT SENSORED BY THE MEDIA !

 

[fistful]

"SENSORED"?

 

[55 gr sx]

do you think the main stream media would report the whole truth or do you think they would twist it around if one of the un document border agent (mineteman)killed a drug sugmugler in a fire fight with an ar 15 or sks ?
That why you need the video cams to prove who fired first .

 

[Silver Bullet]

Good idea. The media doesn't control the Internet yet (which is why they hate it), and posting video there would preserve the truth.

And 5 gr sx, welcome to The High Road !

 

[lostone1413]

It's not the ACLU as much as it is GWB. I voted for him but now I wish i'd stayed home. He is way more worried about his war for control of Iraq oil them the sovereignty of our country. His is the one who I bet asked the ACLU to watch the minutemen for him and Fox. When the next 911 happens and it comes out they walked across our border GWB will go down as the biggest traitor to America in its history

 

[garyk/nm]

I am not a scholar in matters legal, so help me out here; is there anything in the law/Constitution which says (specifically) that the Fed.gov is obligated to control the border?
I'm going to guess that the answer is yes, since we have such organizations as ICE and Border Patrol.
If this is the case, then perhaps it is time to use all legal means to force their hand (law suits, restraining orders, threat of impeachment, etc). Force those organizations to earn their keep, or disband them and quit sucking up vast quantities of tax dollars for no benefit.

Just a thought. IMHO, IANAL, YMMV, etc...

 

[Silver Bullet]

GWB will go down as the biggest traitor to America in its history

That's a little over the top, doncha think ?

 

[Selfdfenz]

garyk/nm

Hmmmmm????

If this is the case, then perhaps it is time to use all legal means to force their hand (law suits, restraining orders, threat of impeachment, etc). Force those organizations to earn their keep, or disband them and quit sucking up vast quantities of tax dollars for no benefit.

Heck yeh! I like that idea. It would be kind of an anti-ACLU. The idea of working inside the law and doing things legally to promote corrections in misdirected sectors of the government is an excellent one.

Little tho my funds are, I would contribute to that outfit. It's my POV that some federal agencies institute policies that are not constitutional, fully vetted and/or violate their mandate. We are becomeing less a country of law and too much a country of some laws, lots of policies and new agencies with operational rules none of us can read becasue they are secret....not controlling illegal/criminal immigration along our souther border being an excellent example going back decades.

I especially like the threat of impeachment part... could it apply to certain members of Congress?

I still think the US is the best country on Earth but we can do so much better. Elected officials seem to feel no responsibility to the voters once in office. Perhaps your idea would be a legal and peaceful way to change that.

S-

 

[lostone1413]

Location: Arizona
Posts: 532 Quote:
GWB will go down as the biggest traitor to America in its history

That's a little over the top, doncha think ?
How you figure it is over the top? If he could stop it and didn't. You wouldn't look at someone who through their in action caused allot of Americans to get killed like happened with 911 as a traitor? Everyone is telling him that the open borders are a threat to our security. Bet most of the ranchers in Southern Arizona look at it that way. I know when i'm in the Southern part all the ones I talk to feel like that. GWB got releelected not because is a good president but because Kerry would have been that bad a president. I voted for GWB but the more I think of the borders the more I wish i'd have just stayed home