Alabama Sheriff

[wvfarrier]

Hooking up with Moms Demand Action to block Constitutional Carry

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/...ms-demand-action-defeat-constitutional-carry/

 

[DT Guy]

These guys are elected, right?

Hmmmmm......

Larry

 

[Jim Watson]

Consider that Alabama is shall issue and permits are issued by the Sheriff's office, a little bit of revenue and a registration base. Of course they are against "constitutional carry."

 

[retDAC]

Consider that Alabama is shall issue and permits are issued by the Sheriff's office, a little bit of revenue and a registration base. Of course they are against "constitutional carry."

Jim, you are right about almost everything, but Alabama is "May" issue. It is a sheriff's discretion whether to grant a permit. I have heard of instances where a sheriff simply didn't like somebody and refused a permit, which is legal. There are also instances where someone doesn't have a 'record', but there is valid reason otherwise to deny. And yes the law for sheriff's issuing permits allows a sheriff to do whatever he wants with the money from permits.

 

[Jim Watson]

Yes I know a permit can be denied but it has to have a written reason, at least according to Handgunlaw.us.
I don't know anybody who has been turned down.

Years ago, before the process was regularized, Jan Stevenson said his sheriff would issue permits freely, saying that nobody who bothered to apply for a permit was likely to do anything illegal or too stupid. The neighboring county sheriff gave out no permits because no "civilian" needed to carry a pistol.

 

[illinoisburt]

Technically the law here says it's shall-issue but a county sheriff can deny the license if they have reasonable suspicion the person has criminal intent. They are required to give a written denial and there is an appeal process. Beyond that, it is an open carry state with no license required so people inclined to carry without a permit do have an option and I can tell you it is quite common. When I moved here it was a bit of a shock, now its just another dude buying groceries or having dinner. Where I am at in Jefferson County the process is easy and relatively cheap at $7 per year. It does vary with some counties as high as $20. In some respects I don't mind the permits as they have reciprocity with most all the nearby states. If we went to no permits it would create major hassle when traveling.

 

[Jim Watson]

I am originally from Birmingham and had my first permit from Sheriff Mel Bailey the first time I was home from college after turning 21. In Florence/Lauderdale since 1964. Last renewal I paid for 4 years so the next renewal would be the same as my drivers license, only one trip to the courthouse.

I shot several seasons on the Lauderdale County PPC team on the strength of one of those "honorary deputy" cards. The match directors weren't looking too close at certifications back then, they wanted attendance. NRA has it now instead of PMA and they are more picky, can't have "civilians" shooting at humanoid targets, don't you know.

 

[zdc1775]

Hooking up with Moms Demand Action to block Constitutional Carry

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/...ms-demand-action-defeat-constitutional-carry/

Big surprise

Consider that Alabama is shall issue and permits are issued by the Sheriff's office, a little bit of revenue and a registration base. Of course they are against "constitutional carry."

Using the numbers that Madison county realsed last year they issued over 24,000 permits in 2020 and expected to pass that in 2021. Those permits all cost at least $10 per year if you get the paper permit, if you get the plastic permit with picture they cost $20 per year. So at minimum they saw $240,000 in revenue from issuing those permits. And that's just one county.

Jim, you are right about almost everything, but Alabama is "May" issue. It is a sheriff's discretion whether to grant a permit. I have heard of instances where a sheriff simply didn't like somebody and refused a permit, which is legal. There are also instances where someone doesn't have a 'record', but there is valid reason otherwise to deny. And yes the law for sheriff's issuing permits allows a sheriff to do whatever he wants with the money from permits.

You would be correct if you had said that around 2015 or so, but several different gun rights groups were finally able to get that changed by the legislature to "Shall" issue, with denials requiring both a written reason for the denial and an appeal process to be implemented along with lower the permit age from 21 to 18.

 

[Spats McGee]

Is there a legal issue to discuss?

 

[herrwalther]

Is there a legal issue to discuss?

I think no, but I am not a mod here. Maybe more of an Activism thread would be my guess.

It really doesn't surprise that some Sheriffs in AL doesn't want Constitutional carry. Permits are a big source of revenue for Sheriffs in this state and some will fight CC instead of reallocating funds to deal with the loss.

 

[Spats McGee]

I'm going to move this one to a more appropriate spot.

 

[illinoisburt]

Using the numbers that Madison county realsed last year they issued over 24,000 permits in 2020 and expected to pass that in 2021. Those permits all cost at least $10 per year if you get the paper permit, if you get the plastic permit with picture they cost $20 per year. So at minimum they saw $240,000 in revenue from issuing those permits. And that's just one county.

The permit system basically pays for the employees who process those applications. You have people in each county whose job is just to accept, process, distribute, and maintain the permits. I can assure you processing and maintaining 24000 permits is multiple full time jobs. You could argue that simply doing away with a couple hundred jobs across the state while eliminating the permits is reducing bureaucracy and not be wrong, but framing the argument like the elected county sheriff simply pocketed the money is inaccurate.

 

[Old Dog]

Does this even make sense?

On December 29, 2021, AL.com reported that Cochran suggested constitutional carry would create an environment where a criminal who currently cannot carry a gun would be able to do so.

So the criminals in Alabama don't carry concealed handguns because they cannot get licenses? (Our criminals up here are not so well-behaved; they've been known to pack weapons without licenses, shocking, I know.)

Methinks some elected sheriffs might be out of jobs after the next election cycle...

 

[Insignificant bill]

Technically the law here says it's shall-issue but a county sheriff can deny the license if they have reasonable suspicion the person has criminal intent. They are required to give a written denial and there is an appeal process. Beyond that, it is an open carry state with no license required so people inclined to carry without a permit do have an option and I can tell you it is quite common. When I moved here it was a bit of a shock, now its just another dude buying groceries or having dinner. Where I am at in Jefferson County the process is easy and relatively cheap at $7 per year. It does vary with some counties as high as $20. In some respects I don't mind the permits as they have reciprocity with most all the nearby states. If we went to no permits it would create major hassle when traveling.

Alabama would still issue permits like all the other states that have Constitutional Carry

 

[zdc1775]

The permit system basically pays for the employees who process those applications. You have people in each county whose job is just to accept, process, distribute, and maintain the permits. I can assure you processing and maintaining 24000 permits is multiple full time jobs. You could argue that simply doing away with a couple hundred jobs across the state while eliminating the permits is reducing bureaucracy and not be wrong, but framing the argument like the elected county sheriff simply pocketed the money is inaccurate.

Not even remotely claiming that any sheriff is pocketing any money from the permit system, that claim comes completely from you in this case, though in fairness it wouldn't surprise me if some did do so illegally as sheriffs are human and routinely commit crimes as do all elected officials and "normal" citizens. All I was doing is simply pointing out that the proceeds from issuing permits is a major budget line item for many of these sheriffs departments.

And yes, the intent of the fee is to pay for the employees salaries, whether it only does that or if it also funds other things is debatable and likely dependent upon the county itself. With that being said, the sheriff would obviously be against reducing their budget for any reason as that would result in either reducing the funds available for training and equipment or in reducing the number or salary of their employees.

Not saying that is why the sheriffs association is opposed to Constitutional carry, especially given the statements by the association's director concerning his disappointment in the lack of ruling to limit the 2nd Amendment to inside one's home, but it is a potential reason for individual sheriffs to oppose the proposed legislation.

Personally, I don't care what their reasoning is as I see their opposition to constitutional carry as a direct violation of their oath to support the Constitutions of the United States and the State of Alabama and therefore proves that they are unworthy of holding that office.