Alaska bear protection: any point in taking one of these?
- Thread starter Sour Kraut
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Sour Kraut
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That's a great point concerning wolves and moose. On our last Alaska trip a moose busted out from the woods about 20 yards from me. We heard "rustle-SNAP-crack!" and there he was. Scared the be-jeepers out of us. Fortunately he was as surprised as we were and took off running!
Certaindeaf
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I understand you asked a binomial question, however, everyone needs a .44 magnum. Get a .44 magnum, 3-4".
Of the two guns listed, I would carry the 686 with the BB 180 hardcast bullets. You might feel safer with the XD-45 with 13+1 but a 230 gr FMJ at 850-900 fps is not going to penetrate like a 180 gr hardcast bullet at 1300 fps.
But given the choice of handgun, I would carry bear spray as well and that would be my first choice.
But given the choice of handgun, I would carry bear spray as well and that would be my first choice.
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Sour Kraut
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I don't think my wife would agree with you....
Certaindeaf
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Lolz. I hear you.I don't think my wife would agree with you....
Not that I've got a thing against the .357, certain handloads do or can exist that might do a .45acp proud on a big bear. The Paco Kelly load is an example.. it's about 2/3 down the page.
http://www.handloads.com/loaddata/default.asp?Caliber=45%20ACP%20+P&Weight=All&type=Handgun&Order=Powder&Source
my preference would be for power over capacity. you may not have time to get off more than 2-4 shots and if that is the case, i would want those few shots to have as much power as possible. keeping a speedloader or two handy might not be a bad idea either.
Stay away from the bears. Bear attacks are very rare and most times people are not paying attention and get too close or are foolish and deliberately get too close.
A bear can charge at about 25 MPH. That's roughly the same speed as a world class sprinter can run. You will have damn little time to act if a bear charges from 50 feet. Better to make an effort to stay away in the first place.
If you must think in terms of a firearm, I suggest a handy 12 gauge pump. I would load a slug in the chamber and 00 buck after that. Far more powerful than any handgun.
A bear can charge at about 25 MPH. That's roughly the same speed as a world class sprinter can run. You will have damn little time to act if a bear charges from 50 feet. Better to make an effort to stay away in the first place.
If you must think in terms of a firearm, I suggest a handy 12 gauge pump. I would load a slug in the chamber and 00 buck after that. Far more powerful than any handgun.
Whats-his-name
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You shouldn't have too much problem, especially if you read up on your bear etiquette.
However, if you really need something to be sure, try scare cartridges and launchers. No need to kill or maim.
For example: http://www.bearsmart.com/becoming-bear-smart/home/bear-deterrents
On the few times we've used them, they DO work (you'll need ear plugs!!). Just make sure you move on afterwards.
Ultimately though, you have to remember you're on his turf, his territory, his home. The bear has a right to be there. If you're on his ground then you'll have to respect that and move to another site to fish - imagine a bear coming into your home to raid the fridge and blowing your head off if you came too close! You'd feel a bit annoyed at that wouldn't you. As I said though, it's rare that you get problems. If you do see any bears at a safe distance, enjoy them.
Have fun.
However, if you really need something to be sure, try scare cartridges and launchers. No need to kill or maim.
For example: http://www.bearsmart.com/becoming-bear-smart/home/bear-deterrents
On the few times we've used them, they DO work (you'll need ear plugs!!). Just make sure you move on afterwards.
Ultimately though, you have to remember you're on his turf, his territory, his home. The bear has a right to be there. If you're on his ground then you'll have to respect that and move to another site to fish - imagine a bear coming into your home to raid the fridge and blowing your head off if you came too close! You'd feel a bit annoyed at that wouldn't you. As I said though, it's rare that you get problems. If you do see any bears at a safe distance, enjoy them.
Have fun.
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All your buddies but your least favorite.
You know the drill. I don't have to outrun the bear, just you. All the ballistics reports one can read here indicate .357 hard cast bullet. As much as I love my 45, it'd probably just be weight on my hip, slowing me down.
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Sour Kraut
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What's-his-name: great information!
Yes, I am but a guest in the bears home, and I want to avoid the homeowners wrath
if you will! Thanks!
Yes, I am but a guest in the bears home, and I want to avoid the homeowners wrath
if you will! Thanks!
Good information.
I personally might go for shoulder-stabilized FMJ or heavy, sturdy JHPs like Gold Dots in the .45, but I see either handgun as being about equivalent. I just tend to be a little faster with autos.
John
I personally might go for shoulder-stabilized FMJ or heavy, sturdy JHPs like Gold Dots in the .45, but I see either handgun as being about equivalent. I just tend to be a little faster with autos.
John
Thompsoncustom
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If it was me I would probably take the .45 load with some 45 Super Ammo - 255 gr. Hard Cast FN (1,075fps/M.E. 654 ft.lbs.) from buffalo bore depending on the gun. But I seen people using it on the XD forum but you would have to make your own call there.
The BB ammo is great stuff, but the .45 acp and .357 magnum just are not the hardware needed for stopping a large brown bear in full charge. Grizzlies can run down a horse. These massive predators have over 35 mph speed.
Any gun, including a .22 LR can kill even the largest bears if you can shoot it point blank behind the ear from the side. Unfortunately, most bears will never give you that shot. Instead, you will have to be able to take it down with a frontal shot in full charge.
Take bear spray and a bunch of friends who have the proper guns. Most importantly, take your knowledge of bear avoidance which is your best and most important defense.
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Sour Kraut
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I'm thinking I will be undergunned....for bear anyway. Bear spray it is, and hope I can be upwind if a bear shows up. My fishing buddies will have to take up the slack in the weapons dept. I'll take one of my guns for other critters and make certain we are all on the same strategy page and carrying spray. I guess this is one situation where "spray and pray" actually fits!
I would advise taking one. If you load them with some hotter, higher pressure, solid rounds, you might get deep enough to actually kill the bear before he finishes eating you. If nothing else, at least they will find the pile of empty brass and know that you put up a good fight. Also, they do really good against 2 legged predators...don't count them out just because you are "in the wild with the animals."
Take the gun you can shoot the best with hardcast ammo. My EDC is a SP101 .357. I will be biking in the mountains near the Idaho/MT border in a couple of weeks. I will only take my .357 with 180 gr BB hardcast bullets. My chance of encountering a large grizzly where we are going is low, but not zero.
However, since it is in an area with a lot of people also riding, I will leave my .44 magnum at home that day. The .357 will have to be enough if I do run into any 4 legged critters.
I suspect that there will be quite a few folks with guns on your fishing trip especially if you have a guide. Sounds like you will be in fine company and in the end, what you bring will not be as much of an issue as where you go and who you go with. I agree, if your weapon is a .357/.45 acp, pepper spray first is probably your first best choice in that situation. Have fun, Alaska is a great place.
Don't forget to take your bug spray, you will probably find the mosquitoes more dangerous than any potential bear encounter.
hogshead
Member
Google killing Grizzly with 357. Seems to work pretty good.
Mr.510
Member
I would certainly take one or the other handguns. There are far more critters to worry about in the woods than just bears. Depending on which gun you shoot better I would carry the .357 with the heaviest, hottest rounds you can get or buy a box of full-house .45 Super for your XD. Many people on the XD forum have run a box of Super through their guns without even changing the recoil spring and they've all functioned just fine. Is it hard on the gun? Yes. Would I pull the trigger on a Super round in a stock XD if my life was not in danger? No. Put a heavier recoil spring in the gun and it'll shoot Super all day long. FYI: 45 Super is right at 700 ft. lbs. with a 185 grain bullet. Pretty much equivalent to .357 Magnum but making a bigger hole.
Take the .357. It gives you greater ammo options and if you are smart while fishing or camping you will never have a bear problem. If you are fishing in big bear country you should have a friend or guide with more fire power if possible. If you get caught off guard a .50 cal or .454 won't do any good. I would take a handgun even if bears are not a problem because I just like having one with me at all time.
digsigs226
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Just food for thought... if your .45 Acp is a 1911, XD, or Glock you might consider getting a conversion kit to .460 Rowland. It's supposed to offer .44 mag velocities from a .45 caliber handgun.
It's a bit pricey, but if you would prefer to have a semi-auto it might be worthwhile.
It's a bit pricey, but if you would prefer to have a semi-auto it might be worthwhile.
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Sour Kraut
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Sounds like you have a nice trip scheduled! Enjoy the country, it's beautiful there.
There will be others in my group that will be armed, so I hoping we will have better fire power. We Intend to be very careful and aren't anticipating trouble, but want to be prepared. My brother just bought a new Kahr P380 that he is bringing to put some rounds through. I told him that his job was to fend off the mosquitoes with it!
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Sour Kraut
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I believe You are right. And.....I don't like being without one either!
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Sour Kraut
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I'm taking the 357 at this point. I was not aware of the 45 Super, I'm going to look into it. That sounds like quite a round. Thanks for the info!
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