Last time I had it, I was unpleasantly shocked at the sweet vanilla taste, but now I think I might like it again -- especially knowing what to expect.
Balvenie Doublewood splits the difference quite nicely.
Alcohol and CCW?
- Thread starter ZeppelinM16
- Start date
- Status
Last time I had it, I was unpleasantly shocked at the sweet vanilla taste, but now I think I might like it again -- especially knowing what to expect.
Balvenie Doublewood splits the difference quite nicely.
jcwit said:
Yes, of course it does. It matters a whole lot. What the general population does with their automobiles, which by their nature they must OPERATE in public, daily, and as a matter of regular conveyance to and from their watering hole, has nothing at all to do with what the sub-set of those citizens who are licensed to carry firearms (and are aware enough and CARE enough about personal safety to carry them in public) will do with their holstered, concealed sidearms which will only be used in the exceedingly rare instance of gravest extreme need.
So, until you can provide statistics showing that licensed, legal gun-toters here in PA are displaying increased and unacceptable violent/negligent tendencies, your point doesn't have one wobbly, inebriated leg to stand on!
If you can provide such statisticly significant numbers, then we can begin to debate whether that provides the basis of a reason to construct a law against this legal action. Until then... nada.
What does that even mean? No, even if the dead dude is part of my immediate family, it doesn't become pertinent to this discussion. Now, if he shot himself with his CCW gun while blind drunk in a bar... well then we have ourselves an anecdote! That's a start...jcwit said:
-Sam
Last edited:
Unless you're deliberately insulting my intelligence (and I don't think that's what you meant), then you're saying this is logical, "if you hold a certain perspective," -- or if you have a personal emotional entanglement with the issue that colors your view.
But that's the opposite of a logical, rational conclusion.
So, once more, what does my (or your?) having a personal relation killed in a situation where alcohol was a factor have to do with the issue at hand? (Unless we're going to agree that this hypothetical dead feller was killed by an otherwise lawfully carrying drunk?)
Or are you are giving us an explanation of why you CANNOT accept the given principle, for emotional reasons, regardless of whether it is logical and rational or not?
Trying to understand, not be a jerk...
-Sam
I see you're trying to draw me into a pi--ing contest and its not going to work, not because I'm unable to explain it to you. You seem to have a closed mind to this subject as is noted way back in your first post, post # 3 on this thread.
You also seem to be trying to draw me into macking comments that would be detrimental to THR in general and this is not going to happen here.
So believe whatever you wish with whatever attidude you wish to take. Suits me!
Lets put it another way. Lets agree to disagree!
You also seem to be trying to draw me into macking comments that would be detrimental to THR in general and this is not going to happen here.
So believe whatever you wish with whatever attidude you wish to take. Suits me!
Lets put it another way. Lets agree to disagree!
Last edited:
I've been sitting back and watching this thread, as the one concerning the Second Amendment has taken more of my interest and intellectual processes. However, I'll cast my hat into the ring.
As I see it, CCW'ing carries with it a certain responsibility. If you feel that you can maintain that level of responsibility while lawfully enjoying a drink or two, then by all means, have at it, as long as you are not prohibited to do so by law. That is my take on this.
jcwit, I have not been around this forum nearly as long as you have, but I have never found Sam1911 to be the type to try to draw someone into a "pi--ing" contest, or to try to get anyone to make comments that are against THR's rules of conduct. Rather, I have often seen him attempt to draw others out of what may be their comfort zone, and see things from a different angle or perspective. I think perhaps you are misunderstanding him, and possibly taking this at a personal level. Maybe you both should just take a deep breath, and return to this subject with a fresh mind.
Sam, you seem to be able to contain your temper far better than I can, and for that, sir, my hat is off to you.
As I see it, CCW'ing carries with it a certain responsibility. If you feel that you can maintain that level of responsibility while lawfully enjoying a drink or two, then by all means, have at it, as long as you are not prohibited to do so by law. That is my take on this.
jcwit, I have not been around this forum nearly as long as you have, but I have never found Sam1911 to be the type to try to draw someone into a "pi--ing" contest, or to try to get anyone to make comments that are against THR's rules of conduct. Rather, I have often seen him attempt to draw others out of what may be their comfort zone, and see things from a different angle or perspective. I think perhaps you are misunderstanding him, and possibly taking this at a personal level. Maybe you both should just take a deep breath, and return to this subject with a fresh mind.
Sam, you seem to be able to contain your temper far better than I can, and for that, sir, my hat is off to you.
I go out to dinner often, I never sit at the bar, if I have to wait, I wait outside or in the waiting area. I almost always have a drink with dinner. If you can't handle 1 drink with a three to five course meal, you should take a bus to the restaurant. If you plan on having more than one hard drink, or two glasses of wine, you should leave the gun in the car. Now that wasn't hard, for adults to figure out.
I also have told the story in here about one guy shooting a NYC Police Captain, while he was eating dinner in a crowded upscale restaurant that I used to be in at least once a week, because he thought the Captain was eyeballing his girlfriend. Even though the Captain had assured him in an earlier dialog that he had no interest in the "coke dealers", girlfriend. I knew the Captain and he was known to be a good family man. So you never know when you will need your gun. And 1 drink with dinner should not compromise your ability to protect yourself, it may even calm you down so you aren't shaking in your shoes, should you have to react to a nightmare like that.
If you are a bar fly, this doesen't apply to you. If the area of the establishment is primatilly used for the serving of food, you should be ok, at least in Florida.
If your intent is to get smashed or you can't control the impulse to continue, even after you went past the point of no return, then you shouldn't have a gun, or a car or anything else that could make you a danger when intoxicated.
I also have told the story in here about one guy shooting a NYC Police Captain, while he was eating dinner in a crowded upscale restaurant that I used to be in at least once a week, because he thought the Captain was eyeballing his girlfriend. Even though the Captain had assured him in an earlier dialog that he had no interest in the "coke dealers", girlfriend. I knew the Captain and he was known to be a good family man. So you never know when you will need your gun. And 1 drink with dinner should not compromise your ability to protect yourself, it may even calm you down so you aren't shaking in your shoes, should you have to react to a nightmare like that.
If you are a bar fly, this doesen't apply to you. If the area of the establishment is primatilly used for the serving of food, you should be ok, at least in Florida.
If your intent is to get smashed or you can't control the impulse to continue, even after you went past the point of no return, then you shouldn't have a gun, or a car or anything else that could make you a danger when intoxicated.
No never!!! Period!!!
I stick with tea or other soft drinks, you do not need a Alcohol to have a good time....
I stick with tea or other soft drinks, you do not need a Alcohol to have a good time....
Thanks reverend but it has nothing to do with the topic.
I think the safe thing to do treat it like a car. Would you drive and pass the state OUI/DUI standards? If so, then who gives a crap if you have a couple.
For me it is all about moderation. I see nothing wrong with having one or two drinks while carrying. I am currently a nurse. If I get a DUI, I will lose my nursing liscense and ability to work. So for me I always am aware of my limitations anyway.
The standards here in Nevada are actually higher than for DUI.
The standards here in Nevada are actually higher than for DUI.
Seems to me like you very well succeeded in getting into a pissing match, considering you've been going back and forth with Sam for the last 3 pages with almost zero input into the original topic, other than arguing about what was said, what was implied, yadda yadda yadda. And we wonder why these threads get locked so quickly...
Getting back on topic, I'm a firm believer that you should try to avoid it as best you can, however, you should not let it run your life. What I mean is, if I am drinking a few to relax, get a buzz, whatever, I will not have my firearms sprawled out and ready for cleaning...they will be put away. However, if I am drinking, and a threat exposes itself, I will do whatever is necessary to defend myself, including arming myself.
As far as being out and with my CCW... I believe it should be regarded in the following order: 1) the law, 2) morality, 3) everything else. In other words, is it LEGAL where you are to carry and drink? No? Then it stops right there. Don't do it. Yes? Then move onto morality. Do you feel COMFORTABLE doing so? To a certain degree? Yes? Then do so as you feel comfortable. No? Then you have every right to do as you choose.
If it's not breaking the law, then it is a morality issue... obviously so long as you are a responsible drinker and a responsible CW carrier. If you are only one of the two, or neither, then this shouldn't even be an issue as I think you have other problems to deal with first.
I agree with the post that maintains if it is against the state law to either carry into an establisment where alcohol is served sold or consumed" or against state law to consume while carrying, then by all means DO NOT break the law. Doing so puts the rest of us who carry concealed at risk of losing the ability to do so. What I do, if I am going into a place and will be consuming anything, beer, wine, harder stuff, is that I carry my Kimber Guardian two-shot pepper spray.
Personally, I prefer to drink my own single-malt scotch in the comfort of my own home bar area, but.
Personally, I prefer to drink my own single-malt scotch in the comfort of my own home bar area, but.
If you are ever in Denver area, you are welcome to come over and try some of my Dahlwhinnie 15 year old or my Glen Morangie....Last time I had it, I was unpleasantly shocked at the sweet vanilla taste, but now I think I might like it again -- especially knowing what to expect.
Balvenie Doublewood splits the difference quite nicely.
A quote from an old Command Sergeant Major I knew years ago"....single-malt scotch drinkers KNOW God loves us...otherwise He wouldn't have caused single-malt scotches to be made..."
My view is that if you have a hard time staying under the legal limit then you shouldn't carry at the same time. As it says in the Matrix "know thyself."
I stopped drinking like I used to over a year ago, but even then, I never drank eccessively while in possesion of a weapon, while out and about. I need to look at the regs for Missouri about alcohol and weapons, but for the most part I believe that the two together is a no no. Consuming alcohol while CCing and or being intoxicated is I believe a felony. I do on occasion have a beer, just one, with dinner while out, I do not even get any where near "legally intoxicated" while CCing.
Weapons and alcohol both have some of the same responsibilities, so doing both, even more so. I will be looking up the regs again to be sure.
Weapons and alcohol both have some of the same responsibilities, so doing both, even more so. I will be looking up the regs again to be sure.
In North Carolina, you can not carry anywhere alcohol is sold AND consumed. One drink (ANY detectable amount) and you can lose your license to carry. North Carolina does not issue a CCW (Florida does) We issue a CCH (concealed Carry Handgun) that allows only a handgun to be carried concealed (no big knives, billies, etc.)
Part of my job is teaching carry laws in North Carolina
N.C. Criminal Justice Education and Training Standards Commission CCH Instructor
Part of my job is teaching carry laws in North Carolina
N.C. Criminal Justice Education and Training Standards Commission CCH Instructor
mcdonl - If you are OC, then everyone would know.
Game on - please explain the need for the 2a then? Or the laws that protect free speech? Just because laws were intended to be interpreted as if it is not specifically verboten it is allowed doesn't mean that they are actually applied that way. The 2A was put in place so that the freedom to RKBA was specifically allowed, because the writers saw even then that people would interpret laws to suit their needs. We had a close call with Heller vs. DC even with the specific language permitting the private ownership of guns. Laws are interpreted as the judge sees fit. There is always a chance that an over zealous DA and an activist judge could ruin your day.
Game on - please explain the need for the 2a then? Or the laws that protect free speech? Just because laws were intended to be interpreted as if it is not specifically verboten it is allowed doesn't mean that they are actually applied that way. The 2A was put in place so that the freedom to RKBA was specifically allowed, because the writers saw even then that people would interpret laws to suit their needs. We had a close call with Heller vs. DC even with the specific language permitting the private ownership of guns. Laws are interpreted as the judge sees fit. There is always a chance that an over zealous DA and an activist judge could ruin your day.
I agree, but I also believe in personal choice and responsibilty, I also don't believe in government (at any level) specifically legislating a choice, with inadequate data to confirm that it achieves anything.
actually I was more performing a thought exercise, if I happened to stumble into an interesting legal argument, then I lucked out
Which I think would be a problem for the states to argue. Most violence statistics are based on whether alcohol is consumed or not, and NOT where the alcohol was obtained so no real data will exist in any digestible format to prove compelling government interest in particular as a state that has this law really prove that data's veracity since law abiding citizens wouldn't be in bars armed.
Further, if they could prove compelling government interest on alcohol and guns, then shouldn't this also apply to gun owners period regardless of the location, since if the concern is for public safety thus legally there should be no distinction between a private residence and a bar the concern for public safety hinges on gun possession and alcohol. Which should mean that your private residence would be off limits to drinking also.I think that might be a difficult line to push in particular as there is far more evidence of people driving drunk than getting drunk and going on a rampage.
Yes it has however there are a number of cases such as LiquorMart vs.Rhode Island where precedent has been set that does not allow constitutional infringement by way of the 21st section 2 LiquorMart were arguing free speech about liquor advertizing, and Craig vs. Boren also established that the 21st did not affect the equal protections clause of the 14th. So there is a case, if anyone wants to go for it.
Last edited:
Mr.510
Member
I no longer consume alcohol. When I did, and it was legal, I would have a drink with dinner while carrying. I put a personal limit of one drink per hour on myself when carrying. For comparison only: I used the same limit if I were going to drive home, armed or not. FYI: I weigh 220. I *personally* would never feel comfortable carrying a gun while buzzed.
While I do not believe that drinking alcohol removes your right to defend yourself, I do believe that drinking massively complicates defending your actions in court should you need to use deadly force. Many things led me to quit drinking and this is one of them. I am armed 24-7 and prefer to be in full control of my faculties at all times.
I do not care what anyone else does so long as they are not endangering others. If you can get totally blotto and be a happy drunk while carrying (and it's legal) go for it. Just be sure that you really know yourself and truly understand who you are and how you act/react at any given level of intoxication. I know who I am when I'm drunk and I choose not to be that person.
RETG
Member
No. For personal reasons, I will NEVER drink on NYE. My basic one drink a year is usually spontaneous and has not reason to it. I am just in a location and I decide during dinner that a drink would taste good and I have it.
- Status